Hello Everyone
This is my first post here and I'm glad to have discovered such a useful resource on classical music.
I'm looking for certain recommendations from your extensive knowledge.
Basically I'm very interested in highly complex, intricate, thorny and technical music. That pretty much excludes anything written before 1900. I'm solely interested in modern works, post 1900 that is. I'm not interested in melody or emotion so please keep that in mind. :)
I have a fairly respectable knowledge of modern/contemporary classical music. I know almost all of the mainstream composers/styles - serialism, spectralism, new complexity, atonalists, polystylists , post modernists etc. I'm specifically looking for more obscure recommendations and composers who are way out there!
Thank You
Quote from: PetroHead on May 24, 2007, 08:23:23 PM
Hello Everyone
This is my first post here and I'm glad to have discovered such a useful resource on classical music.
I'm looking for certain recommendations from your extensive knowledge.
Basically I'm very interested in highly complex, intricate, thorny and technical music. That pretty much excludes anything written before 1900. I'm solely interested in modern works, post 1900 that is. I'm not interested in melody or emotion so please keep that in mind. :)
I have a fairly respectable knowledge of modern/contemporary classical music. I know almost all of the mainstream composers/styles - serialism, spectralism, new complexity, atonalists, polystylists , post modernists etc. I'm specifically looking for more obscure recommendations and composers who are way out there!
Thank You
Hi PetroHead.
If you like modernism you can't go wrong with Stravinsky (primitivism, strong dissonance), Schoenberg (serialism, atonality), Webern (mix of both) etc.
Have fun.
Well, PetroHead, I'm no new music specialist and my recommendations won't be "obscure," but the most complex music I've really made an effort to appreciate is that of Elliot Carter. And, it's been well worth it. ;)
Thanks guys but like I mentioned I already know most of the mainstream composers - Schoenberg, Webern, Berg, Carter, Xenakis, Boulez, Berio, Nono, Maderna, Stockhausen, Lutoslawski, Messiaen, Dutilleux, Ives, Wuorinen, Ligeti, Penderecki etc.
I'm looking for less well known avantgarde composers and no minimalists please.
Quote from: PetroHead on May 24, 2007, 08:50:23 PM
Thanks guys but like I mentioned I already know most of the mainstream composers - Schoenberg, Webern, Berg, Carter, Xenakis, Boulez, Berio, Nono, Maderna, Stockhausen, Lutoslawski, Messiaen, Dutilleux, Ives, Wuorinen, Ligeti, Penderecki etc.
I'm looking for less well known avantgarde composers and no minimalists please.
Hindemith? Gideon? Unruh? Varesae? Ornstein? Ruggles? Rudhyar? Shapey, Les six? There are tons of 'em...
Quote from: PetroHead on May 24, 2007, 08:23:23 PMI'm solely interested in modern works, post 1900 that is. ....... I know almost all of the mainstream composers/styles - serialism, spectralism, new complexity, atonalists, polystylists , post modernists etc. I'm specifically looking for more obscure recommendations and composers who are way out there!
Do you guys even read?
My current favs are Lachenmann, Rihm, Dusapin, Knussen, Aho, Saariaho, Lindberg, Ruders, Norgard, Tuur, L. Andriessen, MacMillan
If you're looking for even more obscure than that you need our poster "UB", but he's not around much these days.
Yes now we are moving. :)
So far I have been able to gather - Gideon, Unruh, Rudhyar, Aho and Tuur. I have heard all the rest of them.
It seems I'll have to hunt down UB.
Check the following websites :
DONEMUS : Donemus is a dynamic organisation devoted to contemporary Dutch music. With our publications and information we promote works by Dutch composers worldwide.
http://www.donemus.nl/page.php?pagina=home&lang=EN
I think you may like the works of Peter Schat - a big box with his most important works is out now.
Info on Belgian (contemporary) composers can be found at
CEBEDEM :http://www.cebedem.be/ ( very general info) .Karel Goeyvaerts, Luc Brewaeys, Pierre Bartholomée, Henri Pousseur and Lucien Goethals are names to check out.
See also : http://www.muziekcentrum.be/english/index.asp
As in most other European countries, contemporary music has many & diverse faces.
In France neo-tonalists such as Nicholas Bacri, Philippe Hersant , Guillaume Connesson and Thierry Escaich write interesting music . Jean louis Florentz,who died far too young, is another composer well worth investigating and so is Olivier Greif .
What i heard of the music by Edith Canat - de Chizy ( http://www.edithcanatdechizy.com/eng_index2.php) was quite impressive : complex yet refined.
This is particularly striking in the string work Siloel (1992) and even more so in the irresistibly appealing violin concerto Exultet (1995). The latter –a piece inspired by the Easter night- spreads out in a quivering dream and smoothly multiplies variations of light thanks to a composition in which all the elements are closely combined. Laurent Korcia brings an uncanny light to this musical adventure which appears to be made of multifarious ignes fatui... »
Pierre Gervasoni - Le Monde
november, 30th 2000
Hans-Peter Kyburz
Beat Furrer.
You could try Ian Wilson or Gerald Barry. Just putting a little in from the Irish side (though I have very little time for Barry, personally...)
Particularly Barry's first Piano Quartet and Wilson's first String Quartet might be worth checking out.
JQP - How have you been? That is a good list - some are more complex than others. Al has also added a couple of interesting composers. Do guys realize we have been doing this Classical Music board thing for about 9 years now.
Petrohead - for those who would like to hear a lot of very contemporary music - much of it never recorded and never will be - I always suggest they dig around in the archives at Dutch station. (http://www.vpro.nl/programma/avondconcert/afleveringen/) They have years of 2 1/2 hour broadcast with many of world premieres as well as new music by younger composers. The streams are very good - 96+ kbps. The only maddening thing about them is they cut them into 58 minute pieces so you have to splice some of the works together. But if you are patient you can hear some very excellent music that you will never hear in a concert hall.
It's always interesting to see complexity where you didn't suspect it - I could cite you Ferneyhoughs, Dillons, Barretts, Denches, Finnissies, Erbers, Powells, Zimmermanns (literally a purality of the latter!)etc till the cows come home, but you're probably aware of them. However, there are some unexpected composers from nearly a century ago who at times anticipate certain features of complexity music, rhythmically speaking. Some of the organ music of Jehan Alain, for instance, incorporates pretty heavy duty tupletizing; Ornstein's Violin Sonata is very much ahead of its time in this and other respects too. More obvious names like Sorabji and Scriabin also need to be remembered. I'll think on about it, because there are a fair few names which ought to be mentioned, and I don't have time now.
To put it into context, though, I'd ugre you to take one giant leap out of the 20th century and back to Matteo de Perugia; have a squiz at my little pet piece of his, Le Greygnour Bien, to see how certain aspects of complexity were afloat even then ;D
Don't forget, too, non 'complexity' composers who have their complexity moments - obvious examples being, for instance, Messiaen's famous birdsong movement in Chronochromie (the Epode, I think); the odd page of The Rite where the ostinati really pile up; pages and pages if Ives, etc. etc.
Quote from: lukeottevanger on May 25, 2007, 03:34:29 AM
Don't forget, too, non 'complexity' composers who have their complexity moments - obvious examples being, for instance, Messiaen's famous birdsong movement in Chronochromie (the Epode, I think); the odd page of The Rite where the ostinati really pile up; pages and pages if Ives, etc. etc.
Yep, the Epode it is.
While we're talking Zimmermenschen, Walter Zimmermann's
Wustenwanderung is another good example of the complexity piling up in a non-complex composer's work.
Most of the best examples seem to have been mentioned already, so I'll just throw in a recommendation for Frank Corcoran's symphonies on Marco Polo: craggy, thorny works entirely unlike what you might expect from a student of Boris Blacher.
Or how about Jean Barraqué (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Barraqu%C3%A9), my favorite serialist?
Quote from: edward on May 25, 2007, 03:56:39 AM
Yep, the Epode it is.
While we're talking Zimmermenschen, Walter Zimmermann's Wustenwanderung is another good example of the complexity piling up in a non-complex composer's work.
That's the one I was thinking of :)
Sonic pile-up! Dig it! 8)
Already know Giacinto Scelsi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giacinto_Scelsi)?
Maybe bhodges could make more conscious recommendations on this one.
Quote from: Scriptavolant on May 25, 2007, 04:49:48 AM
Already know Giacinto Scelsi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giacinto_Scelsi)?
No, and dadgummit, I probably
ought to . . . .
I would second Luke's list of contemporary 'new complexity' British composers - Ferneyhough, Finnessey, Barrett et al
The Ian Pace CD Tracts contains a good sampling of solo piano music by these composers, particularly Richard Barrett's Tracts which the pianist said is perhaps the most difficult piece he knows of.
A couple old school serialists not mentioned were Wolpe and Babbitt
While he's a remarkable composer, I'd say that the mature Scelsi is the very antithesis of complexity.
This cracking disc is a great introduction: one piece (La nascita del verbo) that shows where he came from, one piece (Quattro pezzi) showing the arrival of his mature style, and one mature masterpiece (Uaxuctum).
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/31VE+Pw7rwL._SS400_.jpg)
Remind me of that one come autumn, Edward!
Quote from: PetroHead on May 24, 2007, 08:23:23 PM
Basically I'm very interested in highly complex, intricate, thorny and technical music. That pretty much excludes anything written before 1900. I'm solely interested in modern works, post 1900 that is. I'm not interested in melody or emotion so please keep that in mind. :)
You pose an interesting challenge to this group! Many of the recommendations I'd agree with: Ferneyhough, of course, and Finnissy and Barrett (the latter I'm not that familiar with). Scelsi is marvelous, but as
edward notes, "complexity" isn't really what he's about. Still, if you haven't experienced his unique world, definitely carve out some time to do so.
So here's one that might be a bit off the radar, who happens to be an acquaintance: Jason Eckardt, who co-directs Ensemble 21 (http://www.ensemble21.com/e21.html) here in New York. The group scored a major triumph a couple of years ago by presenting the United States premiere of Ferneyhough's evening-length cycle,
Carceri d'Invenzione. Anyway, if it's very complex you want, Jason might interest you. His compositions page has MP3s you can sample:
Music of Jason Eckardt (http://www.ensemble21.com/eckardt/je.comp.html)
--Bruce
For more recent/less known music in the complexity vein, have a listen to James Saunders, Klaus K Hubler, Claus-Steffen Mahnkopf, Aaron Cassidy, Evan Johnson, Wieland Hoban, and Frank Cox.
Quote from: PetroHead on May 24, 2007, 08:23:23 PM
Basically I'm very interested in highly complex, intricate, thorny and technical music... I'm solely interested in modern works, post 1900 that is. I'm not interested in melody or emotion so please keep that in mind. :)
LOL!
What are you doing listening to Berg, Messiaen, Dutilleux, Ives, Lutoslawski, Schoenberg, Carter, Penderecki etc. then?! This is some of the most emotional music I know! Messiaen, Berg and Ives almost always have strong melodies...
Quote from: Guido on May 25, 2007, 07:28:45 AM
LOL!
What are you doing listening to Berg, Messiaen, Dutilleux, Ives, Lutoslawski, Schoenberg, Carter, Penderecki etc. then?! This is some of the most emotional music I know! Messiaen, Berg and Ives almost always have strong melodies...
makes me laugh, too.
especially Berg and Penderecki, over-the-top expressionism, totally based on emotions and less on theory.
I've heard a Scelsi quite a lot. Remarkable composer indeed.
The New Complexity school is one of my absolute favorites and I'm pretty well versed in their works. I am trying to locate works by Cassidy and Cox but they haven't been recorded I believe. Hoban writes very good music and I have had the pleasure of corresponding with him whenever we meet online. Eckardt's Out of Chaos is a cracker of a CD and so is his Ensemble 21.
Matticus has given some of the more pertinent examples. Although I have heard all of the composers he has listed it is more of that which I'm seeking, especially someone like Claus-Steffen Mahnkopf. So please recommend some more. :)
As for melody and emotion, I'm mainly talking from the perspective of the general audience. You talk about early Penderecki or Ives and most people start pouting. In contrast talk about Mozart and Vivaldi and they'll start gushing about the soulful melody and high dose of emotion. Personally I have never felt music to convey any emotion as such. In most of the music I hear I only pause and think 'Man that must be hard to play' :)
But I do agree that composers like Messiaen, Dutilleux and Berg can be high on emotion and have tuneful melodies. I listed them only to give you guys a general feel for what I have already listened to.
Keep the recommendations coming folks and thanks a bunch.
QuoteYou talk about early Penderecki or Ives and most people start pouting. In contrast talk about Mozart and Vivaldi and they'll start gushing about the soulful melody and high dose of emotion.
Perhaps you should give us a bit more credit! :) Most of us here are at least slightly educated, even those who don't like 20th century music.
I suppose that most composers I mentioned earlier are too soft for you ( but give Brewaeys a try - in symphony nr 1 he uses a large gastank in the percussionsection) . Goethals wrote some very,very thorny music, but I'm afraid none of his largescale works is currently recorded.
I've tried to sing the merits of dutch composer Mathijs Vermeulen before. He is ( a little bit like Ives or Varèse or Langgaard) an outsider. His music is not "avant gardistic" , but some of his works are very tough.
Start with symphony nr 5 ,"Les lendemains chantant" - a 3 movement, 45 mins. colossus for large orchestra ( ca 1942-1944). He describes it as : only movement of singing, expressive factors & elements. - no drama, no poetry, no help from non-musical influences.
Donemus has issued an almost complete survey of both chamber and orchestral music.
Symfonieën
Symphonie No. 1, Symphonia Carminum (1912-1914)
Symphonie No. 2, Prélude à la nouvelle journée (1920)
Symphonie No. 3, Thrène et Péan (1921)
Symphonie No. 4, Les Victoires (1941)
Symphonie No. 5, Les lendemains chantants (1945)
Symphonie No. 6, Les minutes heureuses (1958)
Symphonie No. 7, Dithyrambes pour les temps à venir (1965)
Overige werken
On ne passe pas, voor tenor en piano (1917)
Les filles du roi d'Espagne, voor mezzosopraan en piano (1917)
The soldier, voor bariton en piano (1917)
La veille, voor mezzosopraan en piano (1932: versie met orkest) (1917)
Sonate pour violoncelle et piano (1918)
Trio à cordes (strijktrio) (1923)
Sonate pour piano et violon (1925)
De Vliegende Hollander, voor orkest (1930)
Deuxième sonate pour piano et violoncelle (1938)
Trois salutations à notre dame, voor mezzosopraan en piano (1941)
Le balcon, voor mezzosopraan of tenor en piano (1944)
Préludes des origines, voor bariton en piano (1959)
Quatuor à cordes (strijkkwartet) (1961)
Trois chants d'amour, voor mezzosopraan en piano (1962)
pjme did you have another handle before? Whoever you are, you have some really great recs. I have been enjoying this thread.
Quote from: PetroHead on May 25, 2007, 07:52:49 AM
I am trying to locate works by Cassidy and Cox but they haven't been recorded I believe.
...
Matticus has given some of the more pertinent examples. Although I have heard all of the composers he has listed it is more of that which I'm seeking, especially someone like Claus-Steffen Mahnkopf.
If you email Aaron I'm sure he'll be happy to hook you up; I think quite a lot of his stuff is recorded. The green is either was uploaded to http://cacophonous.org/archives/2006/09/aaron_cassidy_-.html (http://cacophonous.org/archives/2006/09/aaron_cassidy_-.html) last year. Frank Cox has an email address too and I'm sure it'd be worth trying the same with him -- do let me know how you get on if you do contact him.
To be honest I'm running out of suggestions now... you could try looking into Mark R Taylor, Matt Shlomowitz, Dominik Karski, Joanna Bailie, Bryn Harrison, David Brynjar Franzson (has a great website), Erik Ulman, Richard Emsley, ... but none of these people are commercially recorded as far as I know (except Emsley) and you may have to do some hunting down.
Quote from: sonic1 on May 25, 2007, 10:01:48 AM
pjme did you have another handle before? Whoever you are, you have some really great recs. I have been enjoying this thread.
thanks, Sonic 1 .
Well as most musiclovers I enjoy most of "the standards" - from Monteverdi & Palestrina , via Schütz & Bach to Brahms ,Beethoven , Bartok, Mahler, Schönberg, Webern....( I never got used to Bruckner and Wagner( and I do realise their very great masters), silly belcanto, jolly French woodwindtrios from the 1930-ies , neverending -all-too-suave oratorios from the 19th century (there are exceptions, I know),etc etc we all have our likes and dislikes)
for many years now, I have been searching and try -in a modest way- to keep up with what is going on. There are still some great discoveries to be made. I enjoy music from the late 19th -early 20th century : Janacek, Milhaud, Martinu, Martin, Honegger,Harris,Copland....
the very craggy & complex music mentioned in this thread can be very exiting in the concerthall ,possibly armed with a score. Noise & repetitive music gets boring very quickly - alas.
But then I'm not afraid of music and will sit patiently through most concerts....
Peter
And the ocean is very wide ....some music does not travel at all...Why? Je ne sais pas.
Quote from: Guido on May 25, 2007, 08:36:59 AM
Perhaps you should give us a bit more credit! :) Most of us here are at least slightly educated, even those who don't like 20th century music.
Sorry I didn't mean to sound condescending. My apologies.
Thanks for the recommendations everyone. Keep adding to the list. :)
Didn't mean that at all, just informing you that you might be pleasantly surprised at some of the tastes expressed here!
On our dear Lis' recommendation I recently bought a DVD of the opera "Rèves d'un Marco Polo" by Claude Vivier. Amazing! I've also got a very interesting CD of chamber music by Nikos Skalkottas.
I'm working up a sonata for oboe and piano by Richard Rodney Bennett. I don't know anything else by this composer, but the oboe sonata is challenging and wonderful!
I suppose you've checked out Conlon Nancarrow's music for player piano? :)
And one unexpected place to find complexity and near-atonality is in Shostakovich's Fourteenth Symphony. :D
Nancarrow's studies are the bomb!
I'll check out the rest of the people you mentioned. Thanks
You're welcome. :)
I'm into evil, complex music. It feelz good.
Are you saying that all "good" music is simple? ;D
Quote from: jochanaan on May 27, 2007, 01:21:29 PM
Are you saying that all "good" music is simple? ;D
ugggh you humans are so confusing sometimes ???
Quote from: pjme on May 25, 2007, 09:42:28 AM
I've tried to sing the merits of dutch composer Mathijs Vermeulen before. He is ( a little bit like Ives or Varèse or Langgaard) an outsider. His music is not "avant gardistic" , but some of his works are very tough.
Start with symphony nr 5 ,"Les lendemains chantant" - a 3 movement, 45 mins. colossus for large orchestra ( ca 1942-1944). He describes it as : only movement of singing, expressive factors & elements. - no drama, no poetry, no help from non-musical influences.
Donemus has issued an almost complete survey of both chamber and orchestral music.
Symfonieën
Symphonie No. 1, Symphonia Carminum (1912-1914)
Symphonie No. 2, Prélude à la nouvelle journée (1920)
Symphonie No. 3, Thrène et Péan (1921)
Symphonie No. 4, Les Victoires (1941)
Symphonie No. 5, Les lendemains chantants (1945)
Symphonie No. 6, Les minutes heureuses (1958)
Symphonie No. 7, Dithyrambes pour les temps à venir (1965)
Overige werken
On ne passe pas, voor tenor en piano (1917)
Les filles du roi d'Espagne, voor mezzosopraan en piano (1917)
The soldier, voor bariton en piano (1917)
La veille, voor mezzosopraan en piano (1932: versie met orkest) (1917)
Sonate pour violoncelle et piano (1918)
Trio à cordes (strijktrio) (1923)
Sonate pour piano et violon (1925)
De Vliegende Hollander, voor orkest (1930)
Deuxième sonate pour piano et violoncelle (1938)
Trois salutations à notre dame, voor mezzosopraan en piano (1941)
Le balcon, voor mezzosopraan of tenor en piano (1944)
Préludes des origines, voor bariton en piano (1959)
Quatuor à cordes (strijkkwartet) (1961)
Trois chants d'amour, voor mezzosopraan en piano (1962)
Pjme,
very many thanks for reminding me of Matthijs Vermeulen. Upon recommendation by a knowledgeable listener/composer I bought the orchestral music a few years ago and was just as blown away as he predicted me to be. Today I listened again to the 3rd and 5th symphonies, and indeed, the music of this decidedly first-rate, yet sadly unknown, composer is incredible. It is highly polyphonic, in fact, he may be the most polyphonic of all symphonic composers that I know. Unduly simplified, the music can be described as several endless melodies constantly playing against each other--the visceral effect, the sheer emotional and intellectual excitement created by the textures is stunning. A riveting musical journey.
In the Donemus CD booklet the composer/conductor Otto Ketting writes about the second symphony:
"The complexity is sometimes no less than in Stockhausen's
Gruppen, but in 1920 this comparison could not be made."
Without a doubt for me, Vermeulen is one of the best and most important symphonic composers of the 20th century, relegating some other far-better known symphonists to the second tier.
Quote from: Al Moritz on May 27, 2007, 07:00:40 PM
Pjme,
very many thanks for reminding me of Matthijs Vermeulen. Upon recommendation by a knowledgeable listener/composer I bought the orchestral music a few years ago and was just as blown away as he predicted me to be. Today I listened again to the 3rd and 5th symphonies, and indeed, the music of this decidedly first-rate, yet sadly unknown, composer is incredible. It is highly polyphonic, in fact, he may be the most polyphonic of all symphonic composers that I know. Unduly simplified, the music can be described as several endless melodies constantly playing against each other--the visceral effect, the sheer emotional and intellectual excitement created by the textures is stunning. A riveting musical journey.
In the Donemus CD booklet the composer/conductor Otto Ketting writes about the second symphony:
"The complexity is sometimes no less than in Stockhausen's Gruppen, but in 1920 this comparison could not be made."
Without a doubt for me, Vermeulen is one of the best and most important symphonic composers of the 20th century, relegating some other far-better known symphonists to the second tier.
I have his symphony 4. excellent polymelodic music. (the melodic lines are equal and independent, each going its own way). It hits home with me much more now than when I first heard it. . It seems the Chandos disc Al has heard is oop. The price for the Donemus set is atleast 175.00. I have not heard enough of his music to warrant spending the money..although in the realm of possibility....It seems his music is hard to locate. I will search abit further.....
You can get the Donemus set ( 3 CD's) in the Netherlands for 35 euro ( ex; postage) . Try Boudisque http://www.boudisque.nl/
Symphonies 2, 6 en 7 can be downloaded for little money at Chandos. http://www.theclassicalshop.net/details06MP3.asp?CNumber=CHAN%209735
the Chandos CD can still be ordered from the Hague/ Residentie Orchestra.http://www.residentieorkest.nl/cd-shop/index-cdshop.htm
Just listened again to "La veille" ( The eve) for mezzo & orchestra ,with a very young Jard Van Nes and "Passacaille et cortège" from 'The flying Dutchman" - moving and "grandiose" music ( not pompous, but deeply heartfelt - aiming for greatnes).
Quote from: bwv 1080 on May 25, 2007, 04:58:43 AM
I would second Luke's list of contemporary 'new complexity' British composers - Ferneyhough, Finnessey, Barrett et al
The Ian Pace CD Tracts contains a good sampling of solo piano music by these composers, particularly Richard Barrett's Tracts which the pianist said is perhaps the most difficult piece he knows of.
A couple old school serialists not mentioned were Wolpe and Babbitt
Qianlong huh? are you going to do Jiaqing next?
You might enjoy visting loudav's AGP project (http://www.avantgardeproject.org/).
Also, I would like to recommend 2 of my pet threads:
Little-known Polish composers 966-1945 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,355.0.html) (for the early 20th century bit)
Little-known Polish composers from 1945 on (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,50.0.html)
Though I'm not sure you'll find anything complex enough for your needs there.
Well, maybe you should try Bogusław Schaeffer - some of his music is extremely complicated. Though he is quite versatile, so sometimes he does write some much easier listening stuff...
Maciek
Thanks a lot folks. I really appreciate this. Some great recommendations.
Be sure to pop in and update whenever you have choices fulfilling the published parameters. :)
Quote from: PetroHead on May 25, 2007, 07:52:49 AM
I've heard a Scelsi quite a lot. Remarkable composer indeed.
Completely unfamiliar to me, but I just read about a new project at this year's
Salzburg Festival scheduled by the new Intendant
Jürgen Flimm. The article in
Der Spiegel states that
Scelsi does not belong to any school and is a music historical original. He improvised his bombastic intoxicating music at home on his piano and other instruments, recorded it on tape and turned the tapes over to second ranking composers to orchestrate them. Then he edited and corrected the work of his hirelings. :)
Scelsi is fantastic - but 'bombastic' is not the first word that would spring to mind in describing his music. Though his composition methods may seem strange and aloof, and of course he was an eccentric Prince, the essence of his music is the abnegation of 'the self' - he saw himself as a postman, merely delivering the music which came from somewhere higher; and of course photos of him are rare if not unobtainable, and he prefered to represent himself with a simple Circle, again denying his own importance and personality (this whole line of thinking stemming from his interest in Hindu thought)
Quote from: uffeviking on July 26, 2007, 04:59:31 PM
Completely unfamiliar to me, but I just read about a new project at this year's Salzburg Festival scheduled by the new Intendant Jürgen Flimm. The article in Der Spiegel states that Scelsi does not belong to any school and is a music historical original. He improvised his bombastic intoxicating music at home on his piano and other instruments, recorded it on tape and turned the tapes over to second ranking composers to orchestrate them.
A kind of avant-garde Paul McCartney.
Quote from: lukeottevanger on July 26, 2007, 11:13:21 PM
Scelsi is fantastic - but 'bombastic' is not the first word that would spring to mind in describing his music. Though his composition methods may seem strange and aloof, and of course he was an eccentric Prince, the essence of his music is the abnegation of 'the self' - he saw himself as a postman, merely delivering the music which came from somewhere higher; and of course photos of him are rare if not unobtainable, and he prefered to represent himself with a simple Circle, again denying his own importance and personality (this whole line of thinking stemming from his interest in Hindu thought)
This is the only photo that exists of Scelsi, as far as I know.
(http://home.swipnet.se/sonoloco6/Albedo/IRgiacinto.jpg)
In the same Der Spiegel article about Scelsi is an interview with the director Jürgen Flimm where he is being asked his opinion of why our relationship with modern music is such a complicated one. [My translation:] "Because we are too cowardly and too lazy. Looking back is always nicer than the look ahead because we are familiar with the past."
Hear, hear! ;D
Quote from: uffeviking on July 27, 2007, 05:59:41 AM
In the same Der Spiegel article about Scelsi is an interview with the director Jürgen Flimm where he is being asked his opinion of why our relationship with modern music is such a complicated one. [My translation:] "Because we are too cowardly and too lazy. Looking back is always nicer than the look ahead because we are familiar with the past."
Hear, hear! ;D
Well, one has to have deep roots in the past in order to bear the fruits of the future, né?
Quote from: Kullervo on July 27, 2007, 01:32:07 PM
Well, one has to have deep roots in the past in order to bear the fruits of the future, né?
It isn't an aut-aut, of course. Each modern language is somehow related to the past. That doesn't justify cowardice and laziness.
Quote from: uffeviking on July 27, 2007, 05:59:41 AM
In the same Der Spiegel article about Scelsi is an interview with the director Jürgen Flimm where he is being asked his opinion of why our relationship with modern music is such a complicated one. [My translation:] "Because we are too cowardly and too lazy. Looking back is always nicer than the look ahead because we are familiar with the past."
Hear, hear! ;D
I think that I need more context to properly understand the quote. He is not a composer, he's a musical director right? So his inclusion by using the word "we" appears to be a little lie-- he's softening the blow on condemning a group of people (contemporary composers) that he's not apart of. But I don't think that's what he meant, which is why I need the context.
Hah! A DavidW sighting!
Quote from: DavidW on July 29, 2007, 02:42:54 PM
I think that I need more context to properly understand the quote. He is not a composer, he's a musical director right? So his inclusion by using the word "we" appears to be a little lie-- he's softening the blow on condemning a group of people (contemporary composers) that he's not apart of. But I don't think that's what he meant, which is why I need the context.
Welcome back, David!
Now to Jürgen Flimm: He was not 'condemning' contemporary composers, on the contrary, he was speaking for them. He was questioned about the direction he is taking as new Salzburg Festival Director, promoting contemporary music, like featuring Scelsi. His reply came to the question by the interviewer of why it is so difficult for the general audience to accept 'modern' music. That's when he said what I translated. Makes sense now? ;)
If you want weird and way out there:
John Cage
hehehehe ;D
Had him, but couldn't make heads nor tails out of him, god knows I tried! ::)
He is such a jolly man too, but his music? I hope you, Laci, are comfortable with it. 0:)
Quote from: uffeviking on July 29, 2007, 05:54:42 PM
Had him, but couldn't make heads nor tails out of him, god knows I tried! ::)
He is such a jolly man too, but his music? I hope you, Laci, are comfortable with it. 0:)
Actually I have touble with it. Some of his music quotes are great, but the "music", it's difficult to digest and recognize as actual music.
Quote from: LaciDeeLeBlanc on July 29, 2007, 06:11:06 PM
Actually I have touble with it. Some of his music quotes are great, but the "music", it's difficult to digest and recognize as actual music.
I really dislike Cage's music. At its best, it comes off as "pretty" with not much more substance than a Brian Eno ambient album. At its worst it's background music that is too annoying to ignore. I'm sure someone will come along and tell me I'm missing the point. :)
I think Cage is uneven, but some of his best music is remarkable.
For those interested, I usually recommend this album, which has good performances of pieces from most of his major periods. If you don't like anything on it, there probably won't be much point in pursuing Cage's music, but if you do, then at least you'll have an idea of which of his styles might interest.
(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41VBECAEM0L._SS500_.jpg)
Many thanks, Edward,, I it put in my shopping cart, will give it an open-minded listen and follow your recommendation to make my decision. :)
Well well.....this thread is alive and kicking again.
I'll pitch out another call......more recommendations please. You know the criteria - notes, notes and more notes :)
Giles Swayne
John Buller
_ Sackman
John Caskin
Orr
Dominic Muldowney
Lumsdaine
Anthony Gilbert
Who are these Brits, and what are they all doing on my SQ chart @'79-83? I'm pretty sure this is when British composers were getting wind of what the Arditti SQ was doing. I've read the bios, but never heard a note. Swayne and Buller particularly seem interesting (Crumb+Stockhausen?).
I too have been searching for...mmm..."unattractive" music of the highly "lots of stuff happening" type, but I'll be honest, I'm in over my wallet and it is not out of arrogance, but desperation, that I say I hope I never unearth another composer who merits my eartime. I don't want to keep finding smaller and smaller particles, like the quantum guys do. Stop, please.
I mean, I'm down to asking you guys, "Who is Mordecai Seter, and why should I be interested in his "turning" period?" Is this the sign of someone who's been unemployed too long? Spot me.
BUMP
Brian Fornehough(? or something), Magnus Lindberg, Kaija Saariaho
Quote from: matticus on May 25, 2007, 07:21:41 AM
For more recent/less known music in the complexity vein, have a listen to James Saunders, Klaus K Hubler, Claus-Steffen Mahnkopf, Aaron Cassidy, Evan Johnson, Wieland Hoban, and Frank Cox.
Klaus K. Hubler (not to be confused with Klaus Huber, or Nicholas A. Huber) is the guy I'm trying to find some info on.
I'm thinking BAZimmermann is the father of Ferneyhough.