GMG Classical Music Forum

This is a plea for help.

I was looking at the Hyperion website - that section where they offer their ten worst-selling CDs at greatly reduced price - and found a copy of Volume 7 of Vivaldi's Sacred Music (King's Consort). I nearly skipped by because I'm on a Handel hunt, primarily, and what little I've heard of Vivaldi's instrumental music hasn't made me think it would be my kind of thing. But I tried a few samples from these vocal works, and I tried a few more, and I thought this was really quite extraordinarily beautiful music. So I sampled a few of the other volumes in that series (not reduced) and thought 'Oh-oh... this is dangerous territory'.

Eventually I discovered this box set:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FZWGCGHKL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

All 10 volumes, in a box, at about half the total cost of buying them separately.

Now this would be a big step. My recent forays into the baroque period have led me into some unexpectedly exciting places (Handel, Rameau, Lully, Charpentier, Couperin), but in my ignorance I never imagined Vivaldi would feature, and I'd had no idea he'd composed all this vocal music. Does anyone out there own this box? Or any of these 10 recordings separately? And are there any words of encouragement (or discouragement) you'd like to offer before I splash the cash (or not)?

I can't help much with sacred music, but recently I have acquired most of the Naive label individual opera boxsets which have greatly impressed me.

Since the Italian government purchased large sets of Vivaldi manuscripts from private collectors and made them available in the Vivaldi museum I believe there are now more than 40 known Vivaldi operas, Naive has big job ahead of them as they gradually record these

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51tSE3qLTJL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XOFHeFW0L._AA240_.jpg)

I've been spelunking through Vivaldi's sacred music quite a bit lately: it's good.  Real good.  I suppose it should come as no surprise that the man known as 'The Red Priest' should have great sacred music!  

I've seen that box set as well, but would advise against the King's Consort. All of the their efforts with Baroque have left me feeling cold and uninspired (with no exceptions).

Try this disc to start:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41B8259FMSL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Vivaldi-Gloria-RV589-Dominus-Magnificat/dp/B00005YUB3/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1245112046&sr=1-1)

You get three massive settings, performed by the magnificent Choir of King's College Cambridge, all for $13!

I have a different set of his sacred works, and I def made the wrong choice. Anyways, it just sits there now...along with his operas...one day I decided Handel was just better and since then I've left Vivaldi's vocal music gather dust except for a few arias I particularly enjoy.

Quote from: Sorin Eushayson on June 15, 2009, 04:29:02 PM
I've seen that box set as well, but would advise against the King's Consort. All of the their efforts with Baroque have left me feeling cold and uninspired (with no exceptions).

Thanks for this, though my own experience with King's consort (admittedly purely with Handel), has been very different to yours - I've found them delightful and full of life. Clearly this is a matter of taste more than anything else, so this leaves me with the jury still out, really.

I've been trying to compare the recording you recommended against the King's Consort version by listening to the two sets of samples of the Dixit Dominus (yours on Amazon, Consort on Hyperion website). My feeling is that the King's Concert is lighter, more airy, more delicate, whereas the EMI recording is weightier, more ponderous. I couldn't say whether one is better than the other, but that lightness and airiness is what drew me to the music in the first instance - so I'm inclined to go in that direction I think (if I go at all).

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 15, 2009, 03:06:20 PM
I can't help much with sacred music, but recently I have acquired most of the Naive label individual opera boxsets which have greatly impressed me.

Oh heck, DA - I am on the road to ruin, here. I just listened to a few samples from one of those. Oh crikey!

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01171/arts-graphics-2006_1171649a.jpg)

Quote from: Elgarian on June 15, 2009, 11:48:07 PM
Thanks for this, though my own experience with King's consort (admittedly purely with Handel), has been very different to yours - I've found them delightful and full of life. So this leaves me with the jury still out, really.

Firstly, Vivaldi's vocal music is worthwhile IMO.

On performances I would advise against King's Vivaldi, or Cleobury for that matter, though I cannot claim to have heard all of Kings' Vivaldi. And that has nothing to do with the King's Consort: great in Handel. The reason is that the combination of Vivaldi and British choral tradition doesn't work. I would opt for performances by Alessandrini, De Marchi, Tabacco, Spinosi. All on Naïve's sublabel Opus 111.

Some sacred vocal favourites:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/415aSWmreHL._SS400_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51mUgwZIsbL._SS400_.jpg)

(http://multimedia.fnac.com/multimedia/images_produits/ZoomPE/4/4/1/0709861303144.jpg) (http://multimedia.fnac.com/multimedia/images_produits/ZoomPE/0/7/6/0709861303670.jpg)

Q

Quote from: Que on June 16, 2009, 12:30:47 AM
Firstly, Vivaldi's vocal music is worthwhile IMO.

Thanks Que - I should explain that I wasn't initially on a hunt for sacred vocal music; it just so happened that that was what I stumbled across, and was smitten by. I'll see if I can find some samples of the recordings you're recommending, but I'm already scared that this Vivaldi thing may be about to snowball out of control and become unsolvable....

Quote from: Elgarian on June 16, 2009, 12:39:45 AM
Thanks Que - I should explain that I wasn't initially on a hunt for sacred vocal music; it just so happened that that was what I stumbled across, and was smitten by. I'll see if I can find some samples of the recordings you're recommending, but I'm already scared that this Vivaldi thing may be about to snowball out of control and become unsolvable....

Absolutely! ;D

Q

Some previous recommendations:

Orlando Furioso (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1322.msg67214.html#msg67214)

Serenata a Tre (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1322.msg169189.html#msg169189)

Juditha Triumphans (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1322.msg47435.html#msg47435)

Q

Vivaldi's vocal music is excellent! We often forget that in his day, Vivaldi is more popular as a vocal (including operatic) music composer than has a concerti composer.

I have not heard that much Vivaldi vocal music, but of the ones I have, Orlando Furioso is a favorite for sure.

I'm not the biggest fan of Vivaldi's instrumental music, the big one included, but the vocal music is just stunningly beautiful. I bought the ten King's Consort CDs individually and love them. In fact, they've spoiled me so that everything else just sounds wrong now, and I'm generally not enamored with King's interpretations.

Quote from: Que on June 16, 2009, 01:12:53 AM
Some previous recommendations:

Orlando Furioso (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1322.msg67214.html#msg67214)

Serenata a Tre (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1322.msg169189.html#msg169189)

Juditha Triumphans (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1322.msg47435.html#msg47435)

This is really useful, Que - thank you. One of the problems at the start of ventures such as this is that one doesn't always know what are the questions that one wants to ask ....

Thanks, too, to everyone else who is commenting.

Quote from: Elgarian on June 16, 2009, 02:22:18 AM
This is really useful, Que - thank you. One of the problems at the start of ventures such as this is that one doesn't always know what are the questions that one wants to ask ....

Thanks, too, to everyone else who is commenting.

Since we already know that you love Handel's Italian operas, it is only natural that you explore Vivaldi's operas on Naive label, both composers were composing opera during same time period 1710-1740........I think you will find thier style similar

And although the Naive label conductor group (mostly young Italian) is different than those currently recording Handel opera many of the same vocalists are used like Piau, Gens, Mingardo, Ciofi etc. and the Naive sound quality is just excellent. I think Handel specialist Alan Curtis even has a couple Vivaldi operas recorded now.

Quote from: Que on June 16, 2009, 12:43:48 AM

Quote from: Elgarian on June 16, 2009, 12:39:45 AM
I'm already scared that this Vivaldi thing may be about to snowball out of control and become unsolvable....

Absolutely! ;D

As it should!  ;D

Que's right though, Elgarian.  You should trust his opinion more than mine, as he has more experience in this area.  It also makes sense that Italians will perform Vivaldi better than Englishmen.  I've been quite tempted by those Naive discs with the concerto Italiano, may have to check them out - especially if they have a disc of Vivaldi's magnificent Dixit Dominus!   :D

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51tSE3qLTJL._SL160_AA115_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5144DC4CXDL._SL160_AA115_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QYs8ZJhNL._SL160_AA115_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51d2xJrn7kL._SL160_AA115_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/415CK90ERXL._SL160_AA115_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41HPRE8HN1L._SL160_AA115_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/416BDZBJE1L._SL160_AA115_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51wVrMCVhOL._SL160_AA115_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/3144WMKEBXL._SL160_AA115_.jpg)

Plus  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61FSQP9EE4L._SL160_AA115_.jpg)

Elgarian
This will get you caught up, all the Naive Vivaldi operas plus the Biondi/Virgin Bajazet
A second mortgage on the home may be necessary but you can then relax knowing that for now you are nearly caught up  :D

Griselda seems to be currently OOP since my backorder at mdt is 2 months old.

Quote from: Elgarian on June 16, 2009, 02:22:18 AM
This is really useful, Que - thank you. One of the problems at the start of ventures such as this is that one doesn't always know what are the questions that one wants to ask ....

Thanks, too, to everyone else who is commenting.

Your welcome.  :)
Perhaps you are already familiar with the resources site newolde?
Always an interesting read: http://www.newolde.com/vivaldi.htm (Note that it has a separate section on Vivaldi operas and special pages dedicated to Händel.)

Q

Quote from: Que on June 16, 2009, 01:12:53 AM
Some previous recommendations:

Juditha Triumphans (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,1322.msg47435.html#msg47435)

Q

I happened to listen to that in Spotify a week ago and I found it very very good.  0:)

I'm doomed, I tell you all. Doomed!

OK, OK let me try to make some coherent plan out of this. It seems to me I have two roads before me:

1. The sacred music; here the issue is King's Consort 11 CD box set, or the Opus 111 alternatives. Now, I have to remember in all this that it was listening to the King's Consort that made me start this project in the first place, so I mustn't lose sight of that. But also, if I were to decide to buy their box, I wouldn't be able to afford it until next month. So I have two weeks for further research.

So what I've done is to order a cheap copy of this:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51mUgwZIsbL._SS400_.jpg)

This, which I know is an acclaimed recording, will give me a decent shot at the Alessandrini take on things and help me to make a decision about the Hyperion box.

2. Quite separately there's the issue of whether to try one of the Opus 111 operas, and I much appreciate what everyone's saying here. OK, I might just be able to squeeze one of those out before the end of the month. So which should I get? Orlando Furioso?

Thanks to everyone for your help. Confusing it may still be at present, but all your suggestions have been valuable.

Quote from: Elgarian on June 16, 2009, 06:53:51 AM
I'm doomed, I tell you all. Doomed!

2. Quite separately there's the issue of whether to try one of the Opus 111 operas, and I much appreciate what everyone's saying here. OK, I might just be able to squeeze one of those out before the end of the month. So which should I get? Orlando Furioso?

Thanks to everyone for your help. Confusing it may still be at present, but all your suggestions have been valuable.

How does one choose when there are so many great performances, but if you force me to select one:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41HPRE8HN1L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcwtVxRNTnY&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcwtVxRNTnY&feature=related)

For some reason Orlando Finto Pazzo struck me as having the most dramatic and spectacular arias, they will really amaze you!
There may be some who find this work too dramatic and ornamented, puts great demands on the vocalist technical ability and artistic creativity, wonderful interplay between vocalist and violin in sample above, the story line is impossibly complex so just enjoy the great sounds

This was an early opera for Vivaldi composed during the time of his La Stravaganza concertos, so the orchestral parts very nice on thier own merit.
All of the Naive/Opus 111 opera releases are very good and will not disappoint so look for the best deal possible........

I found these LP-sets by Vittorio Negri I bought years ago excellent, though I do not have any of them on CD ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61FSQP9EE4L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Besides the excellent Naive/Opus 111 series of Vivaldi operas this Biondi/Virgin Bajazet should definitely be purchased.
I wish Biondi would do more operas because this is a first class performance with great intimate sound and a stellar cast.

What really is a great selling point is the bonus DVD showing arias performed during recording sessions by the vocalists.
Very interesting to see orchestra layout and instruments used, Biondi plays violin standing up leading orchestra next to vocalist.
Each singer has unique personality that shows through while singing, some are very animated even during recording session like
Marijana Mijanovic......others more controlled physically. Also like to see facial expressions when singing, they should have bonus DVD with all new opera sets.......great idea! (naive are you listening)

You Tube has the Mijanovic aria:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-j8ZQoTgvg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-j8ZQoTgvg)

Belated thanks for that last recommendation, DA.

OK, this arrived a couple of days ago. I eventually chose it because Kozena is singing Juditha, and her involvement swung the decision:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/3144WMKEBXL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I haven't actually sat down and listened to it with the libretto yet - I've just had it playing around the house, at lunchtime, or pottering about etc; I just wanted to get the 'feel' of it. The acoustic is very strange and takes some getting used to. It's as if the singers were recorded in an entirely different and much more reverberent acoustic than the instruments. Is this a characteristic of these Opus111 recordings? Or just this one in particular?

The music itself is completely new to me - apart from the Gloria, this is the first Vivaldi vocal work I've ever heard. It's going to take me a while to get my bearings. Would it be a really stupid thing to imagine a line, with Monteverdi at one end, and Handel at the other, and put this Vivaldi about 3/4 of the way along the line, nearer to the Handel end? I think I'm going to enjoy it, though there seems to be rather more over-vigorous screeching sometimes than I might like. Not sure if that's Vivaldi in general or just the generally violent character of the plot that's responsible. But anyway, I'm on the road. I'm not switched off; and I'm pondering getting hold of Orlando Furioso as a follow-up. Thanks to everyone whose help got me this far.

Great buy......we need some people to discuss Vivaldi vocal  :D

The Juditha you bought is technically an oratorio but it sounds no different really than the Vivaldi operas.
You are not imagining things with more dramatic vocal techniques and exciting ornaments, that is generally true of all
Vivaldi operas and not unique to this work, many parts were created for castrati and technically very challenging for todays vocalists........may take some adjustment period but the danger is now other works will begin to sound reserved by comparison  >:D

The sound quality is typical of Naive/Opus 111 which allows a sense of space of the recording venue to show through, I find it very natural to sometimes hear sustained reverb or echo of notes, creates a vivid 3D space for me.

We should keep in mind that Handel and Vivaldi both were composing Italian operas during same period 1710-40 and I suspect that Handels travel/study/employment in Italy influenced his vigorous early opera/cantata style.

"I'm pondering getting hold of Orlando Furioso as a follow-up"

There is a video of Orlando Furioso with Marilyn Horne singing.  She is a wonderful mezzo and often sang with Luciano Pavarotti and/or Joan Sutherland.  They're not singing in Orlando Furioso.  I don't know if that opera has been transferred to DVD yet.

Well, people, this has clinched it for me:

(http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571141718.png)

Hyperion have a special sale on right now, in which all their prices are reduced very substantially. And this box set that I've been contemplating buying has been reduced from its normal price to £66. So what, you might say. It can be bought on Amazon for less than that. Not so. All orders from the Hyperion website over £60 get a 25% discount, so when you check out, you find that this box of 11 CDs is yours for less then £50.

I listened again to many of the samples (there's a sample of every track). I think they are really lovely - and I know that doubt has been shed here on the Kings Consort versions of this music, but I can't resist this. I'm going to go with my gut feeling. I've ordered a box.

Hyperion website:
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/Default.asp (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/Default.asp)

Quote from: Elgarian on July 01, 2009, 09:25:13 AM
Well, people, this has clinched it for me:

(http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571141718.png)

Hyperion have a special sale on right now, in which all their prices are reduced very substantially. And this box set that I've been contemplating buying has been reduced from its normal price to £66. So what, you might say. It can be bought on Amazon for less than that. Not so. All orders from the Hyperion website over £60 get a 25% discount, so when you check out, you find that this box of 11 CDs is yours for less then £50.

I listened again to many of the samples (there's a sample of every track). I think they are really lovely - and I know that doubt has been shed here on the Kings Consort versions of this music, but I can't resist this. I'm going to go with my gut feeling. I've ordered a box.

Hyperion website:
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/Default.asp (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/Default.asp)

Congratulations..........but now we may have to wait weeks to get you comments on the Curtis/Virgin boxset of Handel operas   >:D

Quote from: DarkAngel on July 01, 2009, 12:42:51 PM
Congratulations..........but now we may have to wait weeks to get you comments on the Curtis/Virgin boxset of Handel operas   >:D

Maybe not. I've now finished printing out all the librettos from the CDrom, so actually I'm ready to go!

Quote from: Elgarian on July 01, 2009, 01:24:55 PM
Maybe not. I've now finished printing out all the librettos from the CDrom, so actually I'm ready to go!

Wait a minute, Elgarian, aren't you a member of the paperless society?    ;D

Quote from: Coopmv on July 03, 2009, 03:43:20 PM
Wait a minute, Elgarian, aren't you a member of the paperless society?    ;D

Yes of course. I'm just completing my 5-volume book on the subject.

(http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571141718.png)

Imagine for a moment your favourite chocolate bar - let's say, for the sake of argument, a Mars bar. Let's eat one. Delicious. Let's eat another; ah, not so good. We feel slightly sick. And we know the calories and the fat are not good for us. Let's eat another? No, we feel sick just thinking about it.

Now suppose that someone invented a Mars bar that didn't make you sick; that wasn't packed full of fat and calories, that made you feel better and better the more you ate? Wouldn't that be good?

Well, this 11-CD Hyperion box set of Vivaldi's sacred music is the musical equivalent of a boxful of such perpetual non-sickmaking delicious Mars bars. Almost every piece bursts with a kind of joy - sometimes exciting, sometimes passionate, sometimes calm, sometimes piercingly beautiful, and always different. There's no trace, anywhere, of stuffy nonsense. I play each CD thinking 'OK, it's bound to start wearing thin soon.' But it doesn't. It gets better the more I listen. What an utterly fabulous purchase this is turning out to be. I haven't even taken the trouble to read what it is I'm listening to, yet. I just listen to each CD in turn, without knowing. Sometime soon I'll do some reading, do some sorting out. But till then, these voices, these strings, these rhythms are filling my days, making me glow.

Vivaldi needs more respect on this forum......thanks for the insights on the sacred works boxset!

Have you ever wondered how Vivaldi was able to compose all these works in one short lifetime using quill pen and parchment
hand writing?

40-50 operas
several hundred concertos
huge body of sacred works

Astonishing amount of work.............. :o

Quote from: DarkAngel on July 06, 2009, 01:35:01 PM
Vivaldi needs more respect on this forum......thanks for the insights on the sacred works boxset!

Have you ever wondered how Vivaldi was able to compose all these works in one short lifetime using quill pen and parchment
hand writing?

40-50 operas
several hundred concertos
huge body of scared works

Astonishing amount of work.............. :o

I'm sure robnewman has something to suggest..... ;D

Quote from: DarkAngel on July 06, 2009, 01:35:01 PM
Vivaldi needs more respect on this forum......thanks for the insights on the sacred works boxset!

The Red Priest has received tons of respect from me since I have had sizable number of CD's and LP's of his works for some times now ...

Presto Classical are offering 20% off all Naive and Harmonia Mundi titles until September. That includes all the Vivalid opera sets.

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/naive.php (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/naive.php)

Quote from: Elgarian on August 05, 2009, 01:33:25 AM
Presto Classical are offering 20% off all Naive and Harmonia Mundi titles until September. That includes all the Vivalid opera sets.

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/naive.php (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/naive.php)

I thought it was up to 30% on HM.....

Quote from: erato on August 05, 2009, 02:13:37 AM
I thought it was up to 30% on HM.....

Yes it is. My mistake.

Quote from: erato on July 06, 2009, 01:43:02 PM
I'm sure robnewman has something to suggest..... ;D

Even though Vivaldi lived to an old age for the time at 63, his early years were spent training for the priest hood and did not begin composing music till @ age 27 with his opus 1 concerto set 1705. His body of work compiled by RV catalog lists 800+ sonatas, concertos, sacred works, operas (46)

So active composing years were only about 36, he needed about 20-25 works per year to compile his listed 800+ catalog.
Not impossible to imagine 2 compositions a month for a skilled composer, especially if you don't re-invent the wheel everytime and rework
previous material or in opera use pastiche style

So I guess I am answering my earlier question and saying it is not as impossible as I first thought, just an
amazing output for one man who seemed endlessly inspired

Also for reference Mozart died age 35, time of  active composing was @ 27 years, and his K catalog lists 626 works.

That would require almost the same rate of compostion as Vivaldi, so in those days 20-30 works a year seems to be possible
for very skilled and inspired composer

Quote from: DarkAngel on August 23, 2009, 06:08:26 AM
Also for reference Mozart died age 35, time of  active composing was @ 27 years, and his K catalog lists 626 works.

That would require almost the same rate of compostion as Vivaldi, so in those days 20-30 works a year seems to be possible
for very skilled and inspired composer

How about Telemann, who lived to be 86 and composed 3000 works? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Philipp_Telemann)

Quote from: Coopmv on August 23, 2009, 08:03:39 AM
 
How about Telemann, who lived to be 86 and composed 3000 works? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Philipp_Telemann)

Interesting..............although most of those 3000 works are lost so we are going on some assumptions here, Guiness Book seems to give him the honor of most prolific composer.

If we assume @ 70 active years of composing that would be 40-45 works a year,
of course in all cases the complexity/size of works should be considered as well as quantity since large number of sonatas or short cantatas could skew the impressions of total body of work

Quote from: DarkAngel on August 23, 2009, 08:33:52 AM
Interesting..............although most of those 3000 works are lost so we are going on some assumptions here, Guiness Book seems to give him the honor of most prolific composer.

If we assume @ 70 active years of composing that would be 40-45 works a year,
of course in all cases the complexity/size of works should be considered as well as quantity since large number of sonatas or short cantatas could skew the impressions of total body of work

Handel was supposed to have composed the Messiah Oratorio in 2 weeks ...

Yes all these prolific composers didn't re-invent the wheel with every new work, once they became experienced
they could expand upon previous work or used reworked sections in new work, nothing wrong with that  :D

That would explain why Messiah could be composed in 2 weeks.........

Quote from: DarkAngel on August 23, 2009, 08:59:10 AM
Yes all these prolific composers didn't re-invent the wheel with every new work, once they became experienced
they could expand upon previous work or used reworked sections in new work, nothing wrong with that  :D

That would explain why Messiah could be composed in 2 weeks.........

Even aside from often liberally borrowing from his own previous works, the work Messiah still showcased the kind of musical genius Handel was ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5144DC4CXDL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

My Vivaldi purchases from the PrestoClassical 20%-off sale have arrived, and I've been listening to the first CD of this one. I'm not too sure about it really. Almost every aria seems to be required to be sung at breakneck speed with a considerable degree of hysteria - which is exciting for a while, but after an hour of this (albeit with quieter recitative interludes) it starts to get a bit much. Each aria is in itself wonderfully executed as far as I can see; but there's very little respite from the hard-driving Vivaldi fizz. I find myself longing for something really gentle, but I suspect, after one CD of power-driven frenzy, that it's going to go on much the same for the other two.

Quote from: Elgarian on August 23, 2009, 12:47:25 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5144DC4CXDL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

My Vivaldi purchases from the PrestoClassical 20%-off sale have arrived, and I've been listening to the first CD of this one. I'm not too sure about it really. Almost every aria seems to be required to be sung at breakneck speed with a considerable degree of hysteria - which is exciting for a while, but after an hour of this (albeit with quieter recitative interludes) it starts to get a bit much. Each aria is in itself wonderfully executed as far as I can see; but there's very little respite from the hard-driving Vivaldi fizz. I find myself longing for something really gentle, but I suspect, after one CD of power-driven frenzy, that it's going to go on much the same for the other two.

Sounds like a disappointment to me ...

Quote from: Elgarian on August 23, 2009, 12:47:25 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5144DC4CXDL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

My Vivaldi purchases from the PrestoClassical 20%-off sale have arrived, and I've been listening to the first CD of this one. I'm not too sure about it really. Almost every aria seems to be required to be sung at breakneck speed with a considerable degree of hysteria - which is exciting for a while, but after an hour of this (albeit with quieter recitative interludes) it starts to get a bit much. Each aria is in itself wonderfully executed as far as I can see; but there's very little respite from the hard-driving Vivaldi fizz. I find myself longing for something really gentle, but I suspect, after one CD of power-driven frenzy, that it's going to go on much the same for the other two.

When in Rome do as the Romans do...............

The highly dramatic and vibrant style of Vivaldi opera arias are wonderfully presented on all the Naive opera sets, I own every one now and love them, if you seek relaxed or gentle arias you are looking in the wrong place, these are for the vocal thrill seekers  :D

These are meant to be vocal showcases for the very best castrati and prima donnas, tremendously challenging for todays vocalists to recreate, the decapo aria style used was was meant as a showcase for dazzling ornamentation in the repeat.

Has anyone heard the video with Marilyn Horne singing Orlando Furioso?

Quote from: DarkAngel on August 23, 2009, 04:16:50 PM
if you seek relaxed or gentle arias you are looking in the wrong place, these are for the vocal thrill seekers 

The thing is this: I love my 11CD King's Consort set of Vivaldi's sacred music, and I didn't have these reservations about Juditha Triumphans; so these incessant firework displays in Orlando come as quite a shock. It's maybe too soon to tell, but I begin to think that my Vivaldi vocal explorations are going to come to a pretty sharp stop.

Quote from: Elgarian on August 24, 2009, 12:46:53 AM
The thing is this: I love my 11CD King's Consort set of Vivaldi's sacred music, and I didn't have these reservations about Juditha Triumphans; so these incessant firework displays in Orlando come as quite a shock.

Griselda isn't like that; just heard it twice. Vivaldi is virtuosic, but I think one's reaction has as much to do with the singer as the work. I hate Bartoli's Vivaldi disc for the same reason you cite, it is so tiresome that it makes me think of early retirement from Vivaldi.

Quote from: Elgarian on August 23, 2009, 12:47:25 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5144DC4CXDL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Almost every aria seems to be required to be sung at breakneck speed with a considerable degree of hysteria - which is exciting for a while, but after an hour of this (albeit with quieter recitative interludes) it starts to get a bit much. Each aria is in itself wonderfully executed as far as I can see; but there's very little respite from the hard-driving Vivaldi fizz. I find myself longing for something really gentle, but I suspect, after one CD of power-driven frenzy, that it's going to go on much the same for the other two.

Why would you think a work called Orlando furioso would be calm and gentle? Fury is right there in the title. If you're weary of Vivaldi's relentless storms, just try another opera (e.g. Griselda or La fida ninfa); unless you're expecting to hear some sort of Italian Händel, I believe you won't be disappointed.

Quote from: erato on August 24, 2009, 02:28:14 AM
Griselda isn't like that; just heard it twice. Vivaldi is virtuosic, but I think one's reaction has as much to do with the singer as the work. I hate Bartoli's Vivaldi disc for the same reason you cite, it is so tiresome that it makes me think of early retirement from Vivaldi.

I also don't like Bartoli's Vivaldi singing style, she has this annoying repetitive stuttering ornamantation that sounds like a weak car battery trying to start an engine.

There is some degree of dramatic intensity variation among Vivaldi operas depending on the conductor/vocalists used, but in general I can safely say they are going to be more intense and dramatic aria style than Handel's Italian operas for instance.......and I am huge fan of both, but for vocal thrills I turn to Vivaldi. The young Italian conductors used by Naive encourage vocalist to be inventive and freely ornament arias, often with dazzling results.

The Biondi/Virgin Bazajet comes with great bonus DVD showing recording sessions, very informative to see vocalists push themselves to thier limit and take full flight

Quote from: erato on August 24, 2009, 02:28:14 AM
I hate Bartoli's Vivaldi disc for the same reason you cite, it is so tiresome that it makes me think of early retirement from Vivaldi.

This is encouraging. Thanks. I have La Fida Ninfa and L'Olimpiade lined up after this, and perhaps I'll do better with them.

Quote from: Elgarian on August 24, 2009, 08:01:42 AM
This is encouraging. Thanks. I have La Fida Ninfa and L'Olimpiade lined up after this, and perhaps I'll do better with them.

I have to admire Elgarians relentless (and wallet draining) pursuit of baroque vocal treasure, onward and upward!  :D

Quote from: Anne on August 23, 2009, 11:49:07 PM
Has anyone heard the video with Marilyn Horne singing Orlando Furioso?

Was Claudio Scimone the conductor?

Quote from: DarkAngel on August 24, 2009, 09:10:32 AM
I have to admire Elgarians relentless (and wallet draining) pursuit of baroque vocal treasure, onward and upward!

Relentless indeed, though my persistence is based on an extended run of really quite wonderful experiences. My explorations of the whole baroque period (including all the Vivaldi sacred music, which I think is superb) have been incredibly rewarding as you know, DA, and disappointment has been rare. I bought these three Vivaldi operas in the light of that (taking advantage of the sale prices). So I'm not likely to let just one dodgy experience put me off. Of course if I continue to experience excessive Vivaldi fizz when I listen to La Fida Ninfa and L'Olimpiade (and from what you said earlier, I'm now aware that there's some possibility of that), then that would be another matter.

Quote from: Anne on August 23, 2009, 11:49:07 PM
Has anyone heard the video with Marilyn Horne singing Orlando Furioso?

Quote from: Coopmv on August 24, 2009, 06:00:53 PM
Was Claudio Scimone the conductor?

No, it was Randall Behr.  I rented it from Netflix back in April.  I liked it a lot.

Quote from: DarkAngel on August 24, 2009, 07:19:24 AM
The Biondi/Virgin Bazajet comes with great bonus DVD showing recording sessions, very informative to see vocalists push themselves to thier limit and take full flight

My copy doesn't have the bonus DVD; a highly recommended recording, regardless.  8)

Wanderer
it is a shame your copy does not have the background DVD, some clips have made it to youtube.
Watch this video to see Vivaldi come to life and enjoy seeing a vocalist take flight and go where eagles dare

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 22, 2009, 05:29:24 PM
What really is a great selling point is the bonus DVD showing arias performed during recording sessions by the vocalists.
Very interesting to see orchestra layout and instruments used, Biondi plays violin standing up leading orchestra next to vocalist.
Each singer has unique personality that shows through while singing, some are very animated even during recording session like
Marijana Mijanovic......others more controlled physically. Also like to see facial expressions when singing, they should have bonus DVD with all new opera sets.......great idea! (naive are you listening)

You Tube has the Mijanovic aria:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-j8ZQoTgvg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-j8ZQoTgvg)

Quote from: DarkAngel on August 25, 2009, 04:16:14 AM
Wanderer
it is a shame your copy does not have the background DVD, some clips have made it to youtube.
Watch this video to see Vivaldi come to life and enjoy seeing a vocalist take flight and go where eagles dare

Thanks for that.  8)

Sonia Prina shows her mettle with a daring short aria performance from Vivaldi's Orlando Finto Pazzo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2XqmH44jYU&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2XqmH44jYU&feature=related)

She appears on many Naive label Vivaldi performances, the young new turks of Baroque opera shaking things up!  :D

Many other Sonia Prina videos from same recital avialable from youtube in "related videos" side panel........
High quality sound from 4/09 recital

Looks like the super expensive import version of Savall/Alia Vox Farnace is now re-issued on Naive label:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ILZsCrOrL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

It will soon be mine..............but I will wait just a bit longer for price to drift lower as more sellers list it on Amazon

Wendell, thanks for answering coopmv's question.  I saw it just now for the first time.

Quote from: Anne on August 29, 2009, 07:10:21 AM
Wendell, thanks for answering coopmv's question.  I saw it just now for the first time.

Anne, we were both waiting for the answer to the same question.  I made an educated guess since Claudio Scimone recorded a number of Handel's operas with Marilyn Horne in the 80's.

Compare three versions of Vivaldi aria Sorge l'irato nembo

The modern younger baroque singers and conductors have really raised the bar for Vivaldi baroque performance from 20 years ago,
much faster more dramatic and freer use of ornamentation, Horne almost seems to be singing a different song by comparison

Jaroussky 2009 (counter tenor, a hint of what the great castrati of Vivaldi's time may have sounded like)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx7c_BwtiZg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx7c_BwtiZg)

Horne 1991
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZopvAHy4c4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZopvAHy4c4&feature=related)

Sonia Prina 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoMx0KhmusU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoMx0KhmusU)

Quote from: DarkAngel on August 29, 2009, 03:32:11 PM

The modern younger baroque singers and conductors have really raised the bar for Vivaldi baroque performance from 20 years ago,
much faster more dramatic and freer use of ornamentation, Horne almost seems to be singing a different song by comparison

Faster singing does not necessarily mean better performance.  If that had been the case, most New Yorkers would have spoken the best English.

Quote from: Coopmv on August 29, 2009, 04:36:47 PM
 

Faster singing does not necessarily mean better performance.  If that had been the case, most New Yorkers would have spoken the best English.

There is far more going on with modern Vivaldi besides faster tempos...........

do you not hear the more colorful emotional animated delivery style, the more agile clearer delivery of notes, the more inventive freer use of ornamentation?

Quote from: DarkAngel on August 29, 2009, 04:54:49 PM
There is far more going on with modern Vivaldi besides faster tempos...........

do you not hear the more colorful emotional animated delivery style, the more agile clearer delivery of notes, the more inventive freer use of ornamentation?

I do.  But I just finished listening to the following St Matthew Passion, which was recorded in 1989.  The recording stacks up against any of the more recent recordings quite well IMO. 

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51RJ6lgwA2L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Coop
I think you are right that Bach & Handel from the 1980s hold up much better to the newest works because they were always very
popular and have a long track record of recordings.

The Vivaldi operas were a rarity in the 1980s and prior and no one was really sure how to sing or play them.
Now they have become very popular with new operas debuting all the time, the style championed by new young generation on Naive, Opus 111, Virgin, Archiv labels etc is much bolder and more dramatic than was previuosly practiced by the few recording available

Quote from: DarkAngel on August 29, 2009, 06:07:54 PM
Coop
I think you are right that Bach & Handel from the 1980s hold up much better to the newest works because they were always very
popular and have a long track record of recordings.

The Vivaldi operas were a rarity in the 1980s and prior and no one was really sure how to sing or play them.
Now they have become very popular with new operas debuting all the time, the style championed by new young generation on Naive, Opus 111, Virgin, Archiv labels etc is much bolder and more dramatic than was previuosly practiced by the few recording available

I think Vivaldi's works generally have much faster tempos compared with works by Bach or Handel.  You need to look no further than the first movement of "Spring" from Le Quattro Stagioni.  I have quite a few Vivaldi's sacred works recorded in the 70's and 80's and their tempos were measurably faster than comparable sacred works by Bach or Handel.  Perhaps the different tempos can be explained by their respective backgrounds and national music styles: Vivaldi was both Italian and Roman Catholic while Bach and Handel were clearly much influenced by their northern European and Protestant backgrounds.  I have not yet have the chance to listen to the latest Vivaldi's choral/vocal recordings and therefore cannot comment ...

Quote from: Coopmv on August 29, 2009, 02:28:46 PM


Anne, we were both waiting for the answer to the same question.  I made an educated guess since Claudio Scimone recorded a number of Handel's operas with Marilyn Horne in the 80's.

You're right.  We were although I could have gone downstairs and retrieved the video.
I had stuck my toe in the water for this kind of music quite a while ago but decided to listen to more romantic music instead.  I'm giving this another try.

(http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/jpegs/034571173610.png)

http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/al.asp?al=CDA67361/2&f=vivaldi (http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/al.asp?al=CDA67361/2&f=vivaldi)

This turned up last week in Hyperion's Bottom Ten sale and I snapped it up. It's a delight. The performances are lovely (with Carolyn Sampson you can't go wrong, and the tonal qualities of the other singers seem to complement each other beautifully), and (in retrospect) I'd have been glad to have it at full price, let alone as a less than half-price bargain. But the thing I want to point up especially (apart from the general excellence of the set) is the finale of La Festa Festeggiante, which you can sample at the above link: CD2 track 8. There's something about this that is irresistibly life-affirming, and I simply can't listen to it without smiling. There's a lightness, spirit-lifting character to it that alone is worth the price of the 2 CD set. Curiously the words are very formulaic, celebrating a royal wedding - but the formality of the words is belied by the music and the singing.

One of my happiest Vivaldi purchases.

Elgarian
Nice find............I picked up the Naive/Opus111 version of that work last year and enjoy it, but seems to be hard to get now

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31HV7DJRZ8L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

BTW I think I am caught up and have every Vivaldi opera released on Naive label  :)

Elgarian,  So this is a great set in your opinion?  Presto Classic is having a great sale on the set.  I just received the Bach Complete Organ Works by Ton Koopman from Presto ...

(http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/t_200/hyperioncds4417181.jpg)

Quote from: Coopmv on December 11, 2009, 06:38:04 PM
Elgarian,  So this is a great set in your opinion?  Presto Classic is having a great sale on the set.  I just received the Bach Complete Organ Works by Ton Koopman from Presto ...

(http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/t_200/hyperioncds4417181.jpg)

I've been snatching up these discs singly in Hyperion's halfprice sale at £5.60  per issue post-free, and now have 5.... ;D

Not really interested in volume 6 (a double) as it is Judita Triumphans which I already have on Naive.

Quote from: Coopmv on December 11, 2009, 06:38:04 PM
Elgarian,  So this is a great set in your opinion?

(http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/t_200/hyperioncds4417181.jpg)

That was one of the best purchases I made in the last year. It was something of a revelation, in fact. I remember at the time Que questioned the combination of Vivaldi and the British choral tradition as manifested through King's Consort on Hyperion; and there's no doubt that listening to these recordings is not quite the same kind of experience as listening, say, to those often wild, windswept performances one hears on the Naive sets. But (perhaps because of my inexperience) I don't share Que's reservations. Obviously I'm speaking in general terms, but I feel that the Naive wildness is replaced by a lightness of touch, a delicacy, that I find entirely delightful. Vivaldi is dancing through the air instead of forcing his way through it with a battering ram. I enjoy both approaches, but if I had to give all my Vivaldi away, it's the Hyperion set that I'd be most reluctant to part with.

Quote from: Elgarian on December 12, 2009, 12:28:42 AM
That was one of the best purchases I made in the last year. It was something of a revelation, in fact. I remember at the time Que questioned the combination of Vivaldi and the British choral tradition as manifested through King's Consort on Hyperion; and there's no doubt that listening to these recordings is not quite the same kind of experience as listening, say, to those often wild, windswept performances one hears on the Naive sets. But (perhaps because of my inexperience) I don't share Que's reservations. Obviously I'm speaking in general terms, but I feel that the Naive wildness is replaced by a lightness of touch, a delicacy, that I find entirely delightful. Vivaldi is dancing through the air instead of forcing his way through it with a battering ram. I enjoy both approaches, but if I had to give all my Vivaldi away, it's the Hyperion set that I'd be most reluctant to part with.

IMO, there are still two schools of thoughts when it comes to performance of classical music.  I think the so-called national interpretation theory is still valid, i.e. I have rarely heard of any non-English ensembles that can do Handel oratorios right, not even the Germans.  Perhaps that was how Q thought about the King's Consort playing Vivaldi Sacred Works.  I can get the set for a little over $6 USD at Presto and will likely take the leap since most of my Vivaldi's sacred works are on LP by Michel Corboz and Vitorio Negri - the old school interpretation.

Quote from: Coopmv on December 12, 2009, 05:50:46 AM
I can get the set for a little over $6 USD at Presto

Six dollars? They must be flying out so fast that they'll clog up the postal system. (I presume that's a typo, Coop?)

There are lots of samples at the Hyperion website, if you want a taster.

Quote from: Elgarian on December 12, 2009, 09:05:22 AM
Six dollars? They must be flying out so fast that they'll clog up the postal system. (I presume that's a typo, Coop?)

There are lots of samples at the Hyperion website, if you want a taster.

It is actually selling the box set and it averages out to a little over $6 per CD.  I am not totally committed to getting the set yet.  But I am definitely getting the Chopin set and the Harnoncourt Mozart's Sacred Works.  I generally only buy recordings by artists I have a certain comfort level.  While I have no hesitation buying Handel oratorios by the King's Consort, like I did last summer, Vivaldi is quite different IMO ...

Quote from: Coopmv on December 12, 2009, 09:13:40 AM
$6 per CD.

Ah. I thought there must have been some essential info missing!

Quote from: Elgarian on December 12, 2009, 12:28:42 AM
That was one of the best purchases I made in the last year. It was something of a revelation, in fact. I remember at the time Que questioned the combination of Vivaldi and the British choral tradition as manifested through King's Consort on Hyperion; and there's no doubt that listening to these recordings is not quite the same kind of experience as listening, say, to those often wild, windswept performances one hears on the Naive sets. But (perhaps because of my inexperience) I don't share Que's reservations. Obviously I'm speaking in general terms, but I feel that the Naive wildness is replaced by a lightness of touch, a delicacy, that I find entirely delightful. Vivaldi is dancing through the air instead of forcing his way through it with a battering ram. I enjoy both approaches, but if I had to give all my Vivaldi away, it's the Hyperion set that I'd be most reluctant to part with.

I understand your point, Elgarian. During the last years, I have purchased the complete Vivaldi collection on Naïve, both instrumental and vocal, and I also have the complete sacred music by King and his ensemble. But I have constantly had a love-hate relationship with that massive and bright sound, always extremely alert and muscular on Naïve (Spinosi is a notorious case). Sometimes I would love certain pauses, hesitations, a sound less robust; in short, less virtuosism and more sensibility...  :)

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on December 13, 2009, 11:01:08 AM
But I have constantly had a love-hate relationship with that massive and bright sound, always extremely alert and muscular on Naïve (Spinosi is a notorious case). Sometimes I would love certain pauses, hesitations, a sound less robust; in short, less virtuosism and more sensibility...  :)

It's nice to be understood! Yes, there are times when those Naive recordings are so exciting that it makes me want to punch the air with exhilaration; and there are other times when I wince and reach for the off switch. We're fortunate to have the best of both worlds.

Quote from: Elgarian on December 13, 2009, 12:51:50 PM
It's nice to be understood! Yes, there are times when those Naive recordings are so exciting that it makes me want to punch the air with exhilaration; and there are other times when I wince and reach for the off switch. We're fortunate to have the best of both worlds.

I only care for authentic but not mood-of-the-moment performance ...

Quote from: Coopmv on December 13, 2009, 12:59:02 PM
I only care for authentic but not mood-of-the-moment performance ...

It's my mood I was talking about, Coop - not the mood of the performance.

There is no perfect 'authentic ideal', is there? (And even if there were, we'd never know for sure that we were recognising it correctly.)

Quote from: Elgarian on December 14, 2009, 01:44:02 AM
It's my mood I was talking about, Coop - not the mood of the performance.

There is no perfect 'authentic ideal', is there? (And even if there were, we'd never know for sure that we were recognising it correctly.)

Indeed. But it's nice to have alternate interpretations of authenticity.  Sometimes I like this, sometimes that; and at times neither. And in addition it enables us to go on buying new versions.... ;)

Quote from: erato on December 14, 2009, 03:57:05 AM
But it's nice to have alternate interpretations of authenticity.

Exactly - in fact essential, I'd say, since there can be no one true path to authenticity. The best we can do is explore the various interesting paths that seem to lead towards it. And, as you say, erato, it feeds the shopping urge ....

Quote from: Elgarian on December 14, 2009, 01:44:02 AM
It's my mood I was talking about, Coop - not the mood of the performance.

There is no perfect 'authentic ideal', is there? (And even if there were, we'd never know for sure that we were recognising it correctly.)

And I was referring to some ensemble might have gone wild in its quest to be different ...

Quote from: Coopmv on December 14, 2009, 07:05:12 PM
And I was referring to some ensemble might have gone wild in its quest to be different ...

I actually do agree that the Naive series ocassionally goes over the top and courts "sensationalism" and what seems like doubtful practises, probably to make the series more !appealing". Read eg this on Tito Manlio:

http://www.newolde.com/vivaldi_operas.htm (http://www.newolde.com/vivaldi_operas.htm)

"This is a disappointing, HUP performance that I would characterize as "Spinosi Lite", as his weird performance practices spread across Europe like the Bird Flu. There are savage attacks at every opportunity, especially in fast arias, long crescendos that were unknown when this opera was composed, and non-historically ornamented B sections with sustained notes in lieu of the "divisions". "

or on  La Verità in Cimento:

"Despite a first rate cast, Spinosi has made a complete hash of this opera, producing a nearly unbearable recording. The non-HIP strumming guitar continuo and vocalists repeatedly attack notes, and virtually every phrase includes an extreme crescendo or diminuendo -- the aural equivalent of a chimp spattering balloons of paint on a canvas."

Quote from: erato on December 14, 2009, 10:34:53 PM
I actually do agree that the Naive series ocassionally goes over the top and courts "sensationalism" and what seems like doubtful practises, probably to make the series more !appealing". Read eg this on Tito Manlio:

http://www.newolde.com/vivaldi_operas.htm (http://www.newolde.com/vivaldi_operas.htm)

"This is a disappointing, HUP performance that I would characterize as "Spinosi Lite", as his weird performance practices spread across Europe like the Bird Flu. There are savage attacks at every opportunity, especially in fast arias, long crescendos that were unknown when this opera was composed, and non-historically ornamented B sections with sustained notes in lieu of the "divisions". "

or on  La Verità in Cimento:

"Despite a first rate cast, Spinosi has made a complete hash of this opera, producing a nearly unbearable recording. The non-HIP strumming guitar continuo and vocalists repeatedly attack notes, and virtually every phrase includes an extreme crescendo or diminuendo -- the aural equivalent of a chimp spattering balloons of paint on a canvas."

Erato,

Such performance practice can rival the American equivalent of New Math, which was appealing in the 60's but the American kids have been suffering from this snake oil for the last 30 years ...

You guys are looking for bread in the dairy department  :)

I think the style of performance heard on Naive opera series is very appropriate. The age of Italian baroque opera is about spectacle and dazzling de capo arias strung together, every performance was an opportunity for singer to dazzle audience with new and more creative ornamentation.........almost impossible today for any singer to actually even sing these notes.

Do not expect the sweet vibrato laden bel canto style of later singers, I enjoy Naive series very much and think young Italian conductors like Biondi, Spinozi, Alessandrini, Savall, Dantone, De Marchi etc know exactly what they are doing and have researched the subject very thoroughly both orchestral style and singing practice............

Quote from: DarkAngel on December 15, 2009, 06:09:55 PM
I enjoy Naive series very much and think young Italian conductors like Biondi, Spinozi, Alessandrini, Savall, Dantone, De Marchi etc know exactly what they are doing and have researched the subject very thoroughly both orchestral style and singing practice............

I don't think anyone's seriously disagreeing with that, DA - except to the extent that despite all the research conceivable, some uncertainty must remain about how closely the end result resembles what we might have actually heard in Vivaldi's day, mustn't it? After all, some uncertainty remains about the interpretation, in actual performance, of any score. And perhaps on some occasions the practitioners do better than others.

For my own part, I'm incapable of passing such judgements. But whether or not the King's Consort Vivaldi interpretations are strictly authentic, to my ears they seem coherent, self-consistent, and often very moving, and I find myself choosing to listen to them more often than the Naive sets. I expect it's my inner Vivaldian wimpishness coming out.

Quote from: Elgarian on December 16, 2009, 12:31:27 AM
I don't think anyone's seriously disagreeing with that, DA - except to the extent that despite all the research conceivable, some uncertainty must remain about how closely the end result resembles what we might have actually heard in Vivaldi's day, mustn't it?

Precisely. Remember, we're talking HIP here - as opposed to what we like. Seems to me that if a recording is marketed as HIP, there must be some substance behind the claim - despite the unavoidable uncertainities.

I love the King series, but I feel I need to say that I have an odd relationship with King's recordings. If his is the first version I hear, I'm absolutely spoiled. Anything else sounds wrong, and I say this as someone who loves doing comparative listenings. However, whenever he tackles a piece I already know, I'm utterly unconvinced and left cold.

Weird, huh?

Since he recorded a lot of works that aren't well known, including the  majority of the series in question, there's a lot to love.

Quote from: DarkAngel on December 15, 2009, 06:09:55 PM
think the style of performance heard on Naive opera series is very appropriate. The age of Italian baroque opera is about spectacle and dazzling de capo arias strung together, every performance was an opportunity for singer to dazzle audience with new and more creative ornamentation.........almost impossible today for any singer to actually even sing these notes.

Well, DA, many people think that some performances on Naive are historically inaccurate. The opinions quoted by Erato are a clear demonstration. Personally I think, for instance, that some tempi used by Spinosi would be simply unimaginable to people of the XVIIIth century.

Quote from: DarkAngel on December 15, 2009, 06:09:55 PM
Do not expect the sweet vibrato laden bel canto style of later singers, I enjoy Naive series very much and think young Italian conductors like Biondi, Spinozi, Alessandrini, Savall, Dantone, De Marchi etc know exactly what they are doing and have researched the subject very thoroughly both orchestral style and singing practice............

Certainly I don't wish more vibrato at all, but those directors referred by you are rather different among them. For instance, Jordi Savall is Spaniard (or more properly Catalan) and he has been in the baroque scene from the late sixties. And Spinosi is by far wilder (and historically inaccurate, I would say) than any of the other directors mentioned by you.

:)

Naive is just representative of baroque opera performance style in general now........
rythms are faster and singers more daring and skilled in difficult ornamentation techniques, more and more unknown works are now being produced, we have now have young singers that specialize in baroque and don't sing Puccini one week and Vivaldi  next week......

The Handel opera boxset for Virgin is a nice time capsule following Alan Curtis style evolution over a long period of time. I remember commenting on those works the newest ones like Radamisto were fresh alive and sparkled with energy......the oldest ones were strangely flat and a bit stale by comparison, I submit this is his evolution to the newer performance style which Naive is the vanguard of but is becoming common accepted baroque opera practice

Religious works are a different area and we should expect them to be more reserved and reverential style by comparison to secular baroque opera which are pure spectacle and entertainment

Quote from: erato on December 16, 2009, 01:53:01 AM
Precisely. Remember, we're talking HIP here - as opposed to what we like. Seems to me that if a recording is marketed as HIP, there must be some substance behind the claim - despite the unavoidable uncertainities.

Yep - I'd be the first to agree that's an important distinction. But I suppose what's causing the problem here is that HIP recordings cover quite a broad spectrum (if we're to judge by the results available to us).

Quote from: Elgarian on December 16, 2009, 10:47:32 AM
Yep - I'd be the first to agree that's an important distinction. But I suppose what's causing the problem here is that HIP recordings cover quite a broad spectrum (if we're to judge by the results available to us).

Personally, I much prefer sampling a few HIP recordings of the same work and do a fair amount of A-B comparisons to determine how they stack up against each other.  Preferably, I would like to have more than three versions to do some meaningful comparisions.  The majority (in terms of similarity in styles) wins, clear and simple.

Elgarian,

I just ordered this set at an American e-tailer that has (surprisingly) somewhat better price than Presto Classic.  I may even have a chance to receive the set before Christmas ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FZWGCGHKL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Quote from: Coopmv on December 19, 2009, 08:41:56 PM
I just ordered this set at an American e-tailer that has (surprisingly) somewhat better price than Presto Classic.  I may even have a chance to receive the set before Christmas ...
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FZWGCGHKL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I wish you much joy of it. I can't seriously believe you'll have any regrets about this purchase. Great music-making remains great music-making, when all the talking stops.

Quote from: Elgarian on December 20, 2009, 12:03:26 AM
I wish you much joy of it. I can't seriously believe you'll have any regrets about this purchase. Great music-making remains great music-making, when all the talking stops.

Elgarian,   You deserve all the credits for recommending the King's Consort and I now own most if not all their Handel oratorio recordings.  No doubt it is a first-rate ensemble that specializes in HIP baroque performance.  While I am somewhat apprehensive about an English ensemble performing Vivaldi's works - I have read criticism of perfomance of Vivaldi's works by English ensembles as cold - there are exceptions, as I enjoyed the Le Quattro Stagioni by Hogwood and AAM very much.  On the other hand, I am definitely not ready to try some "wild" Vivaldi's recordings that purport to be HIP.  DA, I am not being personal here, I just happened to share Elgarian's view ...    ;D

Quote from: Coopmv on December 20, 2009, 05:45:45 AM
While I am somewhat apprehensive about an English ensemble performing Vivaldi's works - I have read criticism of perfomance of Vivaldi's works by English ensembles as cold

I don't find the Hyperion recordings cold - I think of them as a little more restrained; still joyful and energetic, but gentler.

QuoteOn the other hand, I am definitely not ready to try some "wild" Vivaldi's recordings that purport to be HIP.  DA, I am not being personal here, I just happened to share Elgarian's view ...    ;D

Not quite my view - for I have had a great deal of pleasure from my Naive Vivaldi recordings; but sometimes, I'm just not up to all those daredevil thrills! And also, I don't claim any expertise in this area; I'm just reporting my impressions such as they are, no more.

Quote from: Elgarian on December 20, 2009, 01:00:29 PM
I don't find the Hyperion recordings cold - I think of them as a little more restrained; still joyful and energetic, but gentler.
Not quite my view - for I have had a great deal of pleasure from my Naive Vivaldi recordings; but sometimes, I'm just not up to all those daredevil thrills! And also, I don't claim any expertise in this area; I'm just reporting my impressions such as they are, no more.

OK, the partial view.   ;D  Indeed, I have the older, non-HIP Vivaldi Sacred Works by Vittorio Negri and Michel Corboz on LP and on CD as a basis for comparison.  I have some expectation for the King Consort's set and daredevil thrills are not included ...

Elgarian,  Santa arrived late this year, but he delivered this set today.  Happy New Year!

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FZWGCGHKL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) 

;D

Elgarian,  CD1 from this set has been great so far ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FZWGCGHKL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) 

;D

Quote from: Coopmv on January 01, 2010, 08:57:08 AM
Elgarian,  CD1 from this set has been great so far ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FZWGCGHKL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) 

That's excellent. I agree, CD1 is indeed great. You're in for a really nice time, Coop. Happy New Year to you.

Quote from: Elgarian on January 03, 2010, 01:12:42 PM
That's excellent. I agree, CD1 is indeed great. You're in for a really nice time, Coop. Happy New Year to you.

BTW,  Are you a major fan of Marc Minkowski?  I don't recall.  He is still a bit iffy for me after a few Handel recordings.  A few members on the forum think very highly of his latest Bach Mass in B ...

Today, watching the small DVD included with the CDs, I recalled what a fantastic performances there are in the Biondi's Bajazet:


http://www.youtube.com/v/hTpIRFiKTqo


:o :o :o

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on January 03, 2010, 02:22:13 PM
Today, watching the small DVD included with the CDs, I recalled what a fantastic performances there are in the Biondi's Bajazet:

I was raving about that bonus Bajazet DVD earlier in post #22 here, should have one in every opera set, great insights into artists recording sessions

Love watching these baroque divas take flight with thier daring ornamanted runs........then bring it back down for landing

Quote from: DarkAngel on January 03, 2010, 02:44:47 PM
I was raving about that bonus Bajazet DVD earlier in post #22 here, should have one in every opera set, great insights into artists recording sessions

Love watching these baroque divas take flight with thier daring ornamanted runs........then bring it back down for landing

Oh, I didn't see your post before, DA, but I totally agree with your words about Biondi. Fortunately, I chose a different aria at least.  :)

P.S.: What a difference between these stylized girls and the Wagnerian divas of the past!  ;)

Quote from: DarkAngel on January 03, 2010, 02:44:47 PM
I was raving about that bonus Bajazet DVD earlier in post #22 here, should have one in every opera set, great insights into artists recording sessions

Love watching these baroque divas take flight with thier daring ornamanted runs........then bring it back down for landing

Looks like I should watch it....I've had the set for 18 months and totally forgotten about it.

Quote from: Coopmv on January 03, 2010, 02:19:53 PM
BTW,  Are you a major fan of Marc Minkowski?  I don't recall.

No - but I'm not really in a position to say much either way. I have his Teseo and Amadigi, and enjoyed them well enough; but I've only listened to them once, and wasn't left with any particular thoughts about the performances either one way or the other.

Quote from: Coopmv on December 31, 2009, 06:14:09 PM
Elgarian,  Santa arrived late this year, but he delivered this set today.  Happy New Year!

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FZWGCGHKL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Can't miss all the fun.............order for King/Hyperion boxset has been placed with Amazon sellers, like Coop paid a mere $6 per CD  :)

This will really put me in great shape with Vivaldi vocal works as I have the complete Naive opera series to date.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/3144WMKEBXL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51a0kOL94WL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Looks like I will have two "juditha triumphans" since the King boxset includes one for volumes IV & V

Quote from: DarkAngel on January 05, 2010, 03:26:57 PM


Looks like I will have two "juditha triumphans" since the King boxset includes one for volume IV

Volume VI I think.

Quote from: erato on January 06, 2010, 12:15:01 AM
Volume VI I think.

DA is right, Erato, the Juditha is included in vols. 4 & 5 of the complete box set. Maybe the original order was changed here.  :)

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on January 06, 2010, 01:16:52 AM
DA is right, Erato, the Juditha is included in vols. 4 & 5 of the complete box set. Maybe the original order was changed here.  :)

Antoine
I assume you have no regrets with your purchase of the King boxset?
I am hoping it comes in a space saving slim cardboard box with booklet.........

Quote from: DarkAngel on January 06, 2010, 04:05:14 AM
Antoine
I assume you have no regrets with your purchase of the King boxset?

You are right, no regrets here. It is a great set.

Quote from: DarkAngel on January 06, 2010, 04:05:14 AM
I am hoping it comes in a space saving slim cardboard box with booklet.........

Slim cardboard box: Yes

Booklet: mmmh. The booklet just provides the Latin texts and the English translation. Fortunately, you can get the full booklet on the Hyperion website. Not Bis Records, but at least an alternative.   :)

Quote from: Antoine Marchand on January 06, 2010, 04:34:25 AM
Booklet: mmmh. The booklet just provides the Latin texts and the English translation. Fortunately, you can get the full booklet on the Hyperion website. Not Bis Records, but at least an alternative.   :)

Too bad there is no bonus DVD like Bajazet opera set to show highlights from recording sessions........

This should keep me busy for some time, but there seems to be no end to this boxset mania  :)

Quote from: Elgarian on January 04, 2010, 10:18:02 AM
No - but I'm not really in a position to say much either way. I have his Teseo and Amadigi, and enjoyed them well enough; but I've only listened to them once, and wasn't left with any particular thoughts about the performances either one way or the other.

I am still not sold on Minkowski, though I now have a few of his Handel's recordings when I had none at the beginning of last year.  I still prefer Alan Curtis over Minkowski.  My first Handel opera by Curtis goes back to the mid 80's - LP only.  I have gone through a bit of a re-discovery of a vintage (and better) Alan Curtis ...    ;D

Quote from: DarkAngel on January 06, 2010, 06:00:15 AM
boxset mania

That's the name for it alright! Sometimes I feel as if I'm on a train that's out of control.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FZWGCGHKL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Elgarian
We have struck gold with this generous King boxset of sacred Vivaldi treasures, have been through Volumes 1-5 and have nothing but praise for both singers and sound quality, a great find! It has also prompted me to add a couple more HIP Glorias to my collection, Alessandrini & Pinnock:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41nsq1dh3KL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/414tft6KpVL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41cOFe7a7gL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41TczlVtSLL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Also not to slight my beloved baroque secular divas I placed order for these two new releases.
Vivica Genaux is an established Vivaldi specialist and here with Fabio Biondi she seems to surpass the earlier Farinelli disc with Rene Jacobs, has the castratti vocal range with low mezzo tones all the way up to high soprano with daring agile ornamentation capabilities.........can't wait to hear this.

I was not really impressed with Bartoli's first Vivaldi disc 1999 for Decca, but she has really upped her technical capabilities since then, now ready for all out assault on the extremely difficult world of baroque da capo arias.
I of course opted for the deluxe 2 disc  edition with all the goodies, order placed  :)

Interesting cover photo of Bartoli imitating a marble statue..............?

Quote from: DarkAngel on January 10, 2010, 09:28:44 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FZWGCGHKL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Elgarian
We have struck gold with this generous King boxset of sacred Vivaldi treasures, have been through Volumes 1-5 and have nothing but praise for both singers and sound quality, a great find!

Oh that's great to hear, DA. I'd have been very surprised if you'd found it not to your liking, but of course one can never be quite sure about these things. Great treasure indeed.

Quote from: Elgarian on January 10, 2010, 01:30:40 PM
Oh that's great to hear, DA. I'd have been very surprised if you'd found it not to your liking, but of course one can never be quite sure about these things. Great treasure indeed.

I have played 2 CD's from this set.  I am enjoying my only HIP Vivaldi Sacred Works recordings so far. 

Quote from: DarkAngel on January 10, 2010, 09:28:44 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FZWGCGHKL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Elgarian
We have struck gold with this generous King boxset of sacred Vivaldi treasures, have been through Volumes 1-5 and have nothing but praise for both singers and sound quality, a great find!

The chaps at Hyperion just to confound me made the box for Vivaldi sacred works slightly oversive compared to other boxsets.........required special adjustment of my Vivaldi shelf in cd storage system   ::)

Quote from: DarkAngel on January 10, 2010, 05:04:00 PM
The chaps at Hyperion just to confound me made the box for Vivaldi sacred works slightly oversive compared to other boxsets.........required special adjustment of my Vivaldi shelf in cd storage system   ::)

Of course it could be that all the other box sets are slightly too small ....

One thing I haven't done yet is compare King's Juditha with the de Marchi version on Naive. The two Juditha CDs are the only ones in the box I haven't listened to yet. I think I put it off because I half-expected to be disappointed, after hearing Kozena sing the role...

Quote from: Elgarian on January 11, 2010, 12:43:03 AM
One thing I haven't done yet is compare King's Juditha with the de Marchi version on Naive. The two Juditha CDs are the only ones in the box I haven't listened to yet. I think I put it off because I half-expected to be disappointed, after hearing Kozena sing the role...

As soon as I finish my listen of complete boxset I was planning on pulling out the Naive "Juditha" and see how it compares to Hyperion version.......Naive uses 3CDs compared to 2CDs for Hyperion, total times:

Naive - 159 minutes + 7 minutes for 2 bonus tracks
Hyperion - 148 minutes

Quote from: DarkAngel on January 05, 2010, 03:26:57 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/3144WMKEBXL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51a0kOL94WL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Looks like I will have two "juditha triumphans" since the King boxset includes one for volumes IV & V

Was able to compare these two versions with interesting results. Even though the Naive version has slower overall times, it sounds more dramatic with De Marchi accenting rythms more agressively in the Italian style while King has a more constant rythmic pattern. The harpsicord continuo also more prominent in Naive especially during da capo arias.

You will also notice that singers for De Marchi use a more aggressive overall ornamentation, especially Konzena. The Naive sound also emphasizes this effect with very detailed solo perspectives. The Hyperion sound is more evenly balanced sympathetic to the singers style and Kings tempo choices........for sacred works this is very effective as a certain reverence is captured. But for secular works I prefer the Naive sound and singing style, just more exciting overall which I prefer

Dark Angel, I would be very interested to know your views on this one once you get a chance...
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41cOFe7a7gL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I might buy it, but I don't know this singer's work.

Mike

Quote from: knight on January 20, 2010, 01:01:10 AM
Dark Angel, I would be very interested to know your views on this one once you get a chance...
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41cOFe7a7gL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I might buy it, but I don't know this singer's work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTpIRFiKTqo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTpIRFiKTqo)

This video also with Biondi from her sessions for complete Bajazet opera are representative of style on this CD which is a selection of the more daring castrati arias from various Vivaldi operas.........as on the Naive opera series Biondi encourages an expressive freedom for singers to provide inspired ornamentation, Vivica has a nice rich mezzo base from which to launch her vocal flights.....   

Thanks for that. I have been not untypically stupid. I have the Bajazet set. I have not listened to it more than a couple of times. I recalled Daniels, D'Arcangelo and Ciofi. Genaux did not register. But I am now prompted to get it off the shelf, right now and have a listen.

Mike

Quote from: knight on January 20, 2010, 02:14:02 PM
Thanks for that. I have been not untypically stupid. I have the Bajazet set. I have not listened to it more than a couple of times. I recalled Daniels, D'Arcangelo and Ciofi. Genaux did not register. But I am now prompted to get it off the shelf, right now and have a listen.

Mike

FWIW I enjoyed this disc by her quite a lot. :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31POXsrNTIL.jpg)

Q

Thanks, I have several times been tempted by that one.

Mike

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NcxxGHoYL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Y06mG1S8L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Kevin Mallon is currently recording a lot of baroque vocal works on Naxos, has three volumes of Vivaldi sacred works and I can tell you they competetive with any version out there at a fraction of the cost, I have all three.  :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513WETQQP6L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Also must mention I have been busy buying all Vivaldi performances of Gloria I can find and was surprised to find that Parrott/Virgin is my favorite........
I am not a Parrott fan and find his Bach work not that inspiring, but this CD is a "glorious" rendition and the sound quality best I have heard with extemely deep soundstage projected, very cheap at Amazon, essential Vivaldi sacred works CD

Quote from: DarkAngel on January 24, 2010, 02:04:43 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NcxxGHoYL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Y06mG1S8L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Kevin Mallon is currently recording a lot of baroque vocal works on Naxos, has three volumes of Vivaldi sacred works and I can tell you they competetive with any version out there at a fraction of the cost, I have all three.  :)

Thanks for pointing these out, DarkAngel. I have been wanting Vivaldi's sacred works but didn't want to pay what the other sets cost.  8)

I have two of the three Naxos discs, and while they are good I rate them lower than some other recordings I have of the same works. 

I have both the Genaux albums, and find them very well done.    There's also a CD featuring Simone Kermes with Venice Baroque Orchestra (Andrea Marcon cond.) called Amor Sacro, containing four motets, which is very well done (on Archiv). 

My favorite sacred Vivaldi is the fabricated cycle Concerto Italiano did for Naive under the title "Vespri per l'Assunzione", which contains a heapful of psalm settings, the Magnificat, etc, arranged with some instrumental V. and gregorian chant to approximate an 18th century Venetian vesper service.

Quote from: DarkAngel on January 24, 2010, 02:12:56 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/513WETQQP6L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Also must mention I have been busy buying all Vivaldi performances of Gloria I can find and was surprised to find that Parrott/Virgin is my favorite........
I am not a Parrott fan and find his Bach work not that inspiring, but this CD is a "glorious" rendition and the sound quality best I have heard with extemely deep soundstage projected, very cheap at Amazon, essential Vivaldi sacred works CD

Note that Alessandrini just redid his interpretation - and surprisingly the intro is no longer at breathless speed! :)

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0709861304851.jpg)
                           ~ jpc ~ (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Antonio-Vivaldi-Gloria-RV-588-589/hnum/1067002)

Q

Quote from: kishnevi on January 24, 2010, 06:01:41 PM
My favorite sacred Vivaldi is the fabricated cycle Concerto Italiano did for Naive under the title "Vespri per l'Assunzione", which contains a heapful of psalm settings, the Magnificat, etc, arranged with some instrumental V. and gregorian chant to approximate an 18th century Venetian vesper service.

I somehow negelected to get this even though seems I have almost everything else in the Vivaldi Naive series, just assumed I already owned it but when I went to fetch it from collection it was not there.
Order has been placed for the special digibook edition.......

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/415aSWmreHL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Quote from: Que on January 24, 2010, 09:56:23 PM
Note that Alessandrini just redid his interpretation - and surprisingly the intro is no longer at breathless speed! :)
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/0709861304851.jpg)
                           ~ jpc ~ (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Antonio-Vivaldi-Gloria-RV-588-589/hnum/1067002)

I have the older Alessandrini/Naive Gloria shown below (Sara Mingardo in both) but this new version caught my eye immediately (reply 121) and order already placed, awaiting delivery...........Alessandrini + Naive = BUY    :)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51bpZBI1G9L._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51mUgwZIsbL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Quote from: kishnevi on January 24, 2010, 06:01:41 PM
I have both the Genaux albums, and find them very well done.    There's also a CD featuring Simone Kermes with Venice Baroque Orchestra (Andrea Marcon cond.) called Amor Sacro, containing four motets, which is very well done (on Archiv).

I have always wanted to try this CD by Simone Kermes but always very expensive......love the "lava" hair treatment  ;)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51s2RDX0aFL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Quote from: kishnevi on January 24, 2010, 06:01:41 PM
My favorite sacred Vivaldi is the fabricated cycle Concerto Italiano did for Naive under the title "Vespri per l'Assunzione", which contains a heapful of psalm settings, the Magnificat, etc, arranged with some instrumental V. and gregorian chant to approximate an 18th century Venetian vesper service.

I totally agree with you, kishnevi! Some of the most beautiful Vivaldi sacred music ever recorded.  :)

Quote from: DarkAngel on January 25, 2010, 04:31:52 AM
I somehow negelected to get this even though seems I have almost everything else in the Vivaldi Naive series, just assumed I already owned it but when I went to fetch it from collection it was not there.
Order has been placed for the special digibook edition.......

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/415aSWmreHL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I must be losing my mind................I can vividly remember holding this CD in my hands, yet it is not to be found anywhere is my CD collection. Perhaps it was meant to be as I was able to purchase the deluxe digibook version for less than the standard version sells for  ;)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BpHXMc0mL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Great news.........the newest Naive opera release Armida will include a DVD showing recording sessions like Bajazet, I love these and wish every Naive opera release had one! Rinaldo Alessandrini is back conducting, 2nd act of Armida is lost but recontructed here......this will be mine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35EMJ8ZRPkw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35EMJ8ZRPkw)

USA release date 5/25/10

Quote from: DarkAngel on April 12, 2010, 06:13:53 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BpHXMc0mL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Great news.........the newest Naive opera release Armida will include a DVD showing recording sessions like Bajazet, I love these and wish every Naive opera release had one! Rinaldo Alessandrini is back conducting, 2nd act of Armida is lost but recontructed here......this will be mine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35EMJ8ZRPkw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35EMJ8ZRPkw)

USA release date 5/25/10

The New Age Vivaldi?   ;D

Quote from: DarkAngel on April 12, 2010, 06:13:53 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BpHXMc0mL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Great news.........the newest Naive opera release Armida will include a DVD showing recording sessions like Bajazet, I love these and wish every Naive opera release had one! Rinaldo Alessandrini is back conducting, 2nd act of Armida is lost but recontructed here......this will be mine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35EMJ8ZRPkw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35EMJ8ZRPkw)

USA release date 5/25/10

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4107994NSPL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
The character Armida also in Handel's Rinaldo opera......several other composer's have used the epic poem Jerusalem Delivered as a basis for various opera libretto, crusades and the battle for Jerusalem offer many storylines

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Delivered (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Delivered)

Quote from: DarkAngel on January 10, 2010, 09:40:36 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41cOFe7a7gL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41TczlVtSLL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Also not to slight my beloved baroque secular divas I placed order for these two new releases.
Vivica Genaux is an established Vivaldi specialist and here with Fabio Biondi she seems to surpass the earlier Farinelli disc with Rene Jacobs, has the castratti vocal range with low mezzo tones all the way up to high soprano with daring agile ornamentation capabilities.........can't wait to hear this.

I was not really impressed with Bartoli's first Vivaldi disc 1999 for Decca, but she has really upped her technical capabilities since then, now ready for all out assault on the extremely difficult world of baroque da capo arias.
I of course opted for the deluxe 2 disc  edition with all the goodies, order placed  :)

Interesting cover photo of Bartoli imitating a marble statue..............?

Bartoli has easily surpassed her 1999 Vivaldi/Decca Disc exploring the world of castrati da capo arias with her latest Sacrificium CD pictured above.....much more natural and fluid in her ornament with greater imagination in her delivery

We now have a DVD documenting her performances from material on Sacrificium, here is sample as she boldly attempts to perform a signature Farinelli aria.....at 4:38 she begins her improvised repeat and nearly bites off too much, but manages to gracefully float back to earth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7ENn4vdI_o&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7ENn4vdI_o&feature=related)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51fZJl6XsBL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Quote from: DarkAngel on April 12, 2010, 06:13:53 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BpHXMc0mL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Great news.........the newest Naive opera release Armida will include a DVD showing recording sessions like Bajazet, I love these and wish every Naive opera release had one! Rinaldo Alessandrini is back conducting, 2nd act of Armida is lost but recontructed here......this will be mine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35EMJ8ZRPkw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35EMJ8ZRPkw)

USA release date 5/25/10

Order has been placed......10th Vivaldi opera in the Naive series, what a revealtion this entire Naive series has been