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The Music Room => General Classical Music Discussion => Topic started by: Brahmsian on November 04, 2010, 05:51:40 AM

Poll
Question: Which one is your favorite?
Option 1: Robert Schumann
Option 2: Felix Mendelssohn
Title: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Brahmsian on November 04, 2010, 05:51:40 AM
Time for another silly poll!  8)
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: karlhenning on November 04, 2010, 05:52:33 AM
Gotta go with Schumann on this one.
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on November 04, 2010, 06:02:05 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 04, 2010, 05:52:33 AM
Gotta go with Schumann on this one.

Me too. But Mendelssohn was important to me in my formative listening stage. For about 6 months he was my favorite composer. I'm still fond of him, even if I rarely listen nowadays.
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Archaic Torso of Apollo on November 04, 2010, 06:10:44 AM
Just to make this thread sizzle, we should invite Saul the Mendelssohn fanatic to contribute, and that guy at CMG who's always trying to prove that Schumann is the Greatest Composer Ever, Really (Jack Somebody-or-other).

:D
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Wanderer on November 04, 2010, 06:12:48 AM
Not fair. As much as l like Mendelssohn, Schumann is the clear choice.

Two perennial favourites among their not so often performed works: Schumann's Introduction & Allegro appassionato, op.92 and Mendelssohn's Meerestille und glückliche Fahrt Overture, Op.27.
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: karlhenning on November 04, 2010, 06:13:07 AM
Quote from: Velimir on November 04, 2010, 06:10:44 AM
Just to make this thread sizzle, we should invite Saul the Mendelssohn fanatic to contribute, and that guy at CMG who's always trying to prove that Schumann is the Greatest Composer Ever, Really (Jack Somebody-or-other).

:D

Hah! (I did think of Jack Kelso when I saw this thread.)
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: karlhenning on November 04, 2010, 06:14:12 AM
Quote from: Wanderer on November 04, 2010, 06:12:48 AM
Two perennial favourites among their not so often performed works: Schumann's Introduction & Allegro appassionato, op.92

I need to revisit that piece. I sure do love the Cello Concerto. (Especially in Shostakovich's orchestration ; )
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Brahmsian on November 04, 2010, 06:17:13 AM
Is it fair to say that 20 years ago, the reverse would have been the case (Mendelssohn more reverred than Schumann)?  It seems in recent times that Mendelssohn has lost some steam, while Schumann's stock has soared?
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Scarpia on November 04, 2010, 06:24:44 AM
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 04, 2010, 06:17:13 AM
Is it fair to say that 20 years ago, the reverse would have been the case (Mendelssohn more reverred than Schumann)?  It seems in recent times that Mendelssohn has lost some steam, while Schumann's stock has soared?

I can't imagine what would posses you to say that.
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Brahmsian on November 04, 2010, 06:30:43 AM
Quote from: Scarpia on November 04, 2010, 06:24:44 AM
I can't imagine what would posses you to say that.

It is simply an observation, and I did put it in a form of a question.  You don't see it that way?
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Wanderer on November 04, 2010, 06:31:41 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 04, 2010, 06:14:12 AM
I need to revisit that piece.

It would have made the beginning of a formidable second piano concerto, had Schumann composed the following movements as initially planned. Oh, well...  it's still good as it is.  8)
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Scarpia on November 04, 2010, 06:42:56 AM
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 04, 2010, 06:30:43 AM
It is simply an observation, and I did put it in a form of a question.  You don't see it that way?

Schumann usurped Mendelssohn since 1990?  The popularity of fringe composers may wax and wane noticeably, an pop culture phenomena like the movie Amadeus or "10" can cause blips, but the suggestion that the fortunes of the "major" composers such as Bach, Handel, Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schumann, Mendelssohn, Brahms, Wagner, Verdi, etc, jump up and down over 20 year periods seems implausible. 
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: karlhenning on November 04, 2010, 06:56:40 AM
Quote from: Scarpia on November 04, 2010, 06:42:56 AM
Schumann usurped Mendelssohn since 1990?

Maybe not quite so strong a verb, really.

How soon did the trend begin, of actually taking Schumann's orchestration on its own terms?  I could entertain the idea of a slight tilt from Mendelssohn being traditionally better-regarded as a symphonist, in Schumann's favor, as the idea is shed that, well, once you have a real orchestrator touch Schumann's scores up . . . .
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Philoctetes on November 04, 2010, 06:58:41 AM
I haven't even had to really think about who to vote for in these polls. My favorite has always been clear.
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: MN Dave on November 04, 2010, 07:01:19 AM
Schumann easy.
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: karlhenning on November 04, 2010, 07:02:39 AM
Quote from: Philoctetes on November 04, 2010, 06:58:41 AM
I haven't even had to really think about who to vote for in these polls. My favorite has always been clear.

Well, and that is one of a number of interesting sorts of data points on these polls.
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Sergeant Rock on November 04, 2010, 07:04:52 AM
Poor Mendelssohn Bartholdy...it will be a massacre. It's really unfair. I can't think of a single piece by him that I don't love (or at least enjoy) and yet Schumann gets my vote.

Sarge
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Scarpia on November 04, 2010, 07:23:35 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 04, 2010, 06:56:40 AM
Maybe not quite so strong a verb, really.

How soon did the trend begin, of actually taking Schumann's orchestration on its own terms?  I could entertain the idea of a slight tilt from Mendelssohn being traditionally better-regarded as a symphonist, in Schumann's favor, as the idea is shed that, well, once you have a real orchestrator touch Schumann's scores up . . . .


That would be Paul Paray, 1954, Mercury Living Presence?
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Scarpia on November 04, 2010, 07:26:06 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 04, 2010, 07:04:52 AM
Poor Mendelssohn Bartholdy...it will be a massacre. It's really unfair. I can't think of a single piece by him that I don't love and yet Schumann gets my vote.

I can.  Mendelssohn's early works bring a smile to my face, but as the years went on, his style seemed to get more and more crimped.   That last string quartet, which is supposed to be a homage to his dead sister, strikes me as the most emotionally stifled work I have ever heard.  It is just saturated with fussy figuration, and never anything that impresses me as an attempt to communicate deep feelings.  Next to that piece, Mozart sounds like Scriabin.
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Philoctetes on November 04, 2010, 07:27:24 AM
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on November 04, 2010, 07:02:39 AM
Well, and that is one of a number of interesting sorts of data points on these polls.

For sure. It is difficult to make a good, competitive poll, that won't turn into a huge flame war, and some that I would find more difficult (like Vivaldi v Bach, I suspect most others would be able to vote with ease).
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Brahmsian on November 04, 2010, 07:38:59 AM
The Handel vs Bach poll thread by Corkin was a landslide victory for Bach (47-16 for Bach).   :D

I get a feeling a Vivaldi vs Bach thread could actually be a bit closer than that was.

*Ducks and runs dodging giant tomatoes*  :P
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Philoctetes on November 04, 2010, 07:40:57 AM
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 04, 2010, 07:38:59 AM
The Handel vs Bach poll thread by Corkin was a landslide victory for Bach (47-16 for Bach).   :D

I get a feeling a Vivaldi vs Bach thread could actually be a bit closer than that was.

*Ducks and runs dodging giant tomatoes*  :P

I don't get how it could be a landslide, but perhaps others appreciate different things than I do. I think I would side with Vivaldi, in the poll I proposed.
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Sergeant Rock on November 04, 2010, 07:45:27 AM
Quote from: Scarpia on November 04, 2010, 07:26:06 AM
I can.  Mendelssohn's early works bring a smile to my face, but as the years went on, his style seemed to get more and more crimped.   That last string quartet, which is supposed to be a homage to his dead sister, strikes me as the most emotionally stifled work I have ever heard.  It is just saturated with fussy figuration, and never anything that impresses me as an attempt to communicate deep feelings.  Next to that piece, Mozart sounds like Scriabin.

I don't hear it that way. I love op.80

Sarge
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Scarpia on November 04, 2010, 07:48:49 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 04, 2010, 07:45:27 AM
I don't hear it that way. I love op.80

Well, maybe I'll figure it out someday. 
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Brian on November 04, 2010, 07:58:32 AM
I really only love one work by each composer. I love Schumann's Fantasie in C, Op 17, like Kreisleriana, the quartets and the song cycles, am OK with the rest of his piano music, and don't at all like his orchestral music. I love Mendelssohn's Octet, like the E minor concerto, first piano concerto, and Symphonies 3-5, and find most of the rest to be "meh." So clicking on this thread I was thinking "Mendelssohn, DUH" but when you frame it as

Fantasie in C vs. Octet
All of a sudden it becomes a dead heat. So we go to the next-favorites from each...

Im wunderschonen monat Mai, Op 48 vs. Symphony No 4 "Italian"

...and all of a sudden, Schumann wins.  :o
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: DavidW on November 04, 2010, 08:00:54 AM
I'm going to break it down like we did on that other thread:

Vocal: Mendelssohn
Orchestral: tied
Chamber: tied
Piano: Schumann

;D
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Scarpia on November 04, 2010, 08:05:37 AM
Quote from: Brian on November 04, 2010, 07:58:32 AM
I really only love one work by each composer. I love Schumann's Fantasie in C, Op 17, like Kreisleriana, the quartets and the song cycles, am OK with the rest of his piano music, and don't at all like his orchestral music.

There are a lot of bad recordings of Schumann Orchestral Music, like the Kubelik cycle on DG that convinced me I didn't like Schumann for years.  Played well, the Symphonies can be electrifying. 

This one is surprisingly non-Bernsteinesq (i.e., it is good).

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ZCMXSPN0L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

I have high hopes for this one, recently acquired

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51o5I7Vl%2BVL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Florestan on November 04, 2010, 08:07:57 AM
Quote from: DavidW on November 04, 2010, 08:00:54 AM
I'm going to break it down like we did on that other thread:

Vocal: Mendelssohn
Orchestral: tied
Chamber: tied
Piano: Schumann

I'm in the game.

Gentleman: Mendelssohn
Schizophrenic: Schumann

;D



Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: karlhenning on November 04, 2010, 08:09:22 AM
For me, one angle is, which was more gracious to Berlioz? Schumann by a landslide.
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: DavidW on November 04, 2010, 08:16:46 AM
Good one Florestan. ;D

Child prodigy: Mendelssohn

Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Brahmsian on November 04, 2010, 08:29:28 AM
Hottest sister:  Mendelssohn

Hottest wife:  Schumann
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Florestan on November 04, 2010, 08:33:44 AM
Quote from: ChamberNut on November 04, 2010, 08:29:28 AM
Hottest sister:  Mendelssohn

Hottest wife:  Schumann

Best wife's secret lover composer: Schumann.  ;D
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Brahmsian on November 04, 2010, 08:36:45 AM
Quote from: Florestan on November 04, 2010, 08:33:44 AM
Best wife's secret lover composer: Schumann.  ;D

;D
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Brahmsian on November 04, 2010, 08:42:36 AM
Best composer promoter (tough one):

Bach - Mendelssohn

Brahms, Schubert (finding the score to the 9th) - Schumann
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Sergeant Rock on November 04, 2010, 08:43:39 AM
Quote from: Scarpia on November 04, 2010, 08:05:37 AM
This one is surprisingly non-Bernsteinesq (i.e., it is good).

That Spring Symphony is especially electrifying. Add Barenboim and Szell's cycles to your collection and you've got all the bases covered  8)


Sarge
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Bulldog on November 04, 2010, 08:46:52 AM
Nothing from Mendelssohn captivates me as much as Schumann's piano works from the 1830's. 
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Josquin des Prez on November 04, 2010, 08:53:11 AM
Schumann promoted Schubert as well, which to me is a more significant discovery then Brahms, whom would have made a name for himself anyhow. He also discovered Burgmüller for which i'm pretty grateful.

Somebody one day should translate and publish a collection of his reviews and general writings.
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Florestan on November 04, 2010, 11:48:18 AM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on November 04, 2010, 08:53:11 AM
He also discovered Burgmüller for which i'm pretty grateful.
Norbert or Johann?
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Josquin des Prez on November 04, 2010, 12:05:36 PM
Quote from: Florestan on November 04, 2010, 11:48:18 AM
Norbert or Johann?

Norbert. Schumann says of him that "no death was more deplorable than that of Norbert Burgmüller since the early death of Franz Schubert".
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Florestan on November 04, 2010, 12:08:09 PM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on November 04, 2010, 12:05:36 PM
Norbert. Schumann says of him that "no death was more deplorable than that of Norbert Burgmüller since the early death of Franz Schubert".
Quite so. What are your favorite recordings of NB's music?
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Josquin des Prez on November 04, 2010, 12:13:01 PM
Quote from: Florestan on November 04, 2010, 12:08:09 PM
Quite so. What are your favorite recordings of NB's music?

I don't know about recordings, but my favored piece is the fourth string quartet, opus 14.
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Florestan on November 04, 2010, 12:19:27 PM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on November 04, 2010, 12:13:01 PM
I don't know about recordings, but my favored piece is the fourth string quartet, opus 14.
Never heard it --- any recommendations?
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Josquin des Prez on November 04, 2010, 12:34:48 PM
Quote from: Florestan on November 04, 2010, 12:19:27 PM
Never heard it --- any recommendations?

I only have this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Norbert-Burgm%C3%BCller-String-Quartets-opp/dp/B00004Y6OB/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1288902823&sr=8-6

I liked the performance, though i can't say how good it is, since i have nothing to compare it to. Actually, i'm not even sure if there's even another recording to compare it to in the first place.
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Florestan on November 04, 2010, 12:40:02 PM
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on November 04, 2010, 12:34:48 PM
I only have this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Norbert-Burgm%C3%BCller-String-Quartets-opp/dp/B00004Y6OB/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1288902823&sr=8-6

I liked the performance, though i can't say how good it is, since i have nothing to compare it to. Actually, i'm not even sure if there's even another recording to compare it to in the first place.
Yeah, looks like this is the only one.. Anyway, I've been listening to his two symphonies and IMO they are much more Sturm-und-Drang-ish than any  Haydn would ever get!  ;D
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Air on November 04, 2010, 03:13:05 PM
Organ: Mendelssohn, I guess...
Orchestral: Tie
Choral: Tie
Operatic: meh
Chamber: Schumann
Concerti: Schumann
Songs: SCHUMANN
Piano: SCHUMANN
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Dancing Divertimentian on November 04, 2010, 06:08:12 PM
Schumann. One of those guys who just bled piano tunes.

Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: marvinbrown on November 05, 2010, 04:56:47 AM
 

  I voted Schumann because I  love his solo piano work, his song cycles and Scene's from Goethe's Faust.  I have yet to explore the chamber music which I bought recently in a 6CD set from EMI to commemorate Schumann's 200th Anniversary. 

  Unfortunately after listening to Mendelssohn's concertos, Midsummer's Night Dream I am not tempted to explore any further.  Yes the Violin Concerto in E minor is GLORIOUS but that's where it begins and ends for Mendelssohn as far as I am concerned.

  marvin
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: The Six on November 10, 2010, 06:53:51 PM
Quote from: Scarpia on November 04, 2010, 07:26:06 AM
Next to that piece, Mozart sounds like Scriabin.
:( ???
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Mirror Image on November 10, 2010, 06:55:10 PM
I don't like either composer enough to choose.
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Sid on November 10, 2010, 09:11:54 PM
Having recently seen two of these guys works recently in concert, I think I like them equally. I saw the lyrical and "wholly ravishing" (as Clara called it) Schumann Cello Concerto, and the Mendelssohn Piano Trio No. 2, whose finale struck me as such a grand and sublime statement. They're the kind of composers whose much I really like to see live to just hear that electricity their music creates. I would really like to see Mendelssohn's Octet (such intense music from someone in their teens), but am gearing up to see a couple of his symphonies performed by the Sydney based Metropolitan Chamber Orchestra in their next season. I would maybe like to get a cd or two of Schumann's solo piano music at some stage, as I have liked what I have heard on radio from him in that department so far...
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Leon on November 11, 2010, 05:50:53 AM
Quote from: Sid on November 10, 2010, 09:11:54 PM
Having recently seen two of these guys works recently in concert, I think I like them equally. I saw the lyrical and "wholly ravishing" (as Clara called it) Schumann Cello Concerto, and the Mendelssohn Piano Trio No. 2, whose finale struck me as such a grand and sublime statement. They're the kind of composers whose much I really like to see live to just hear that electricity their music creates. I would really like to see Mendelssohn's Octet (such intense music from someone in their teens), but am gearing up to see a couple of his symphonies performed by the Sydney based Metropolitan Chamber Orchestra in their next season. I would maybe like to get a cd or two of Schumann's solo piano music at some stage, as I have liked what I have heard on radio from him in that department so far...

It is interesting you use the verb "to see" instead of "to hear" music.  I know you mean you attended live performances, but it struck me as odd in an interesting way.  (I assure you I am not trying to be sarcastic or picky, I really found it unique.)

You only said "heard" when referring to a radio performance.

Does seeing the performers add to your enjoyment?  Or is it merely a euphemism for experiencing the music live and all the intangibles that includes, as opposed to hearing the same works on a CD or the radio?
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Sid on November 11, 2010, 04:22:35 PM
Well, I did write "see" many times in that post! :D I suppose I like seeing the music being made before my eyes better than anything else. Of course the sound is more important than the view (I've been to venues where the view was great, but the sound not so good). But I think that I am not only aurally stimulated by music, but also visually by what's going on...
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: knight66 on November 13, 2010, 02:29:27 AM
I am currently wading through sludge whilst rehearsing 'Elijah'. If for no other reason then: Schumann.

Though Mendy's goodies do pile up, especially his chamber music. But I do wish he had not gone down the route of romanticising Bach in his choral works. I once had a sight reading test where I was given about 20 pages of 'St Paul' to sing through. Dreck.

Mike
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: Sergeant Rock on November 13, 2010, 08:27:53 AM
Quote from: knight on November 13, 2010, 02:29:27 AM
I am currently wading through sludge whilst rehearsing 'Elijah'. If for no other reason then: Schumann.

Though Mendy's goodies do pile up, especially his chamber music. But I do wish he had not gone down the route of romanticising Bach in his choral works. I once had a sight reading test where I was given about 20 pages of 'St Paul' to sing through. Dreck.

Mike

I said earlier in this thread that "I can't think of a single piece by him that I don't love." But I haven't heard Elijah or St. Paul. Maybe I shouldn't  ;D

Sarge
Title: Re: Schumann vs Mendelssohn
Post by: knight66 on November 13, 2010, 08:36:22 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on November 13, 2010, 08:27:53 AM
I said earlier in this thread that "I can't think of a single piece by him that I don't love." But I haven't heard Elijah or St. Paul. Maybe I shouldn't  ;D

Sarge

Good idea, though some folks do like both. They tend to sit round the walls of communal rooms in old people's homes and wet themselves on a regular basis. Not sure if there is a cause and effect there.

Mike