Symphony No.5, Op.100
I. Andante (10:30) 12:30 (15:30)
II. Allegro marcato 8:30 (most perf. clock in right here or just below)
III. Adagio (10:30) 11:30 (14:30)
IV. Allegro giocoso 9:30 (in just about every perf., this movement is pretty much right around 9:30)
Without much recollection, I picked up Dutoit's 5th, and ended up wonder why I'd like this amorphous Ballet Music- Symphony with Piano Obbligato- that I could imagine miiight catch my imagination if perhaps someone else performed it. A quick check showed that, at least tempo-wise, most performances of the second and fourth movements are about right where they are stated above, especially the fourth, where there is almost universal conformity (though, there are some quite brisk ones, such as Jansons/Chandos).
I.
Karajan takes 13:00. Some have taken it all the way to @10:30 (Jansons, I believe,Ansermet?Martinon?), whilst some may have even taken it out to 15:30 (I can't remember who this was). Dutoit sounded somewhat flaccid at 13:30, but, maybe that was just his fault and not the tempo's?
The music left me cold in Dutoit's hands, but I heard sumptuousness built into the stacked harmonies, so I knew that the music could come alive in the right hands. I'm curious about both the very quick and slow tempos- is there a Golden Rule concerning this movement?
II.
Timings are pretty consistent across the board, though some take it under 8:00. What's the secret here?
III.
Karajan clocks in at 13:30, but most seem to hover around 11:30, with some quicker still by a minute, and some stretched out passed 14 minutes. Again, what's the Golden Rule here?
IV.
This is the most consistent movement across the board. If we allow for so-and-so many seconds on either side of 9:30, then most every performance has just about exactly the same idea in mind, at least where tempo is concerned.
I'll forego the Discography at the moment, but I'm really curious about all the curious one-offs (such as, say, Celibidache), or the outrageously fast/slow- just- what are all the different things this Symphony can be and still work. Like I said, in Dutoit's hands, this became mid-afternoon nap inducing music of the highest order!
Karajan, Jansons,... those are the first two hits on Amazon... what're your choices?
Bold Chicago brass, and an incredibly intense 5th ...
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/6b/64/4172808a8da0d887b3466110.L._SX250_.jpg)
Come for the 7th, stay for the 5th. As vigorous of an Adagio and finale you'll hear...
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41o1TtYKMfL._SS250_.jpg)
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 09, 2014, 06:00:41 PM
Bold Chicago brass, and an incredibly intense 5th ...
(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/6b/64/4172808a8da0d887b3466110.L._SX250_.jpg)
A bone-crunching, ear-drum endangering recording (because I always listen way too loud). No other conductor, not even Szell, can match Levine here. An awesome disc, first note to last.
Quote from: Todd on June 09, 2014, 06:06:39 PM
A bone-crunching, ear-drum endangering recording (because I always listen way too loud). No other conductor, not even Szell, can match Levine here. An awesome disc, first note to last.
then it's settled? ;)
My fave:
[asin]B000094YFB[/asin]
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on June 09, 2014, 08:13:28 PM
My fave:
[asin]B000094YFB[/asin]
Yea, that one looked good. Howz da sound?
btw- are we sold on Malko for 7?
Quote from: Todd on June 09, 2014, 06:06:39 PM
A bone-crunching, ear-drum endangering recording (because I always listen way too loud). No other conductor, not even Szell, can match Levine here. An awesome disc, first note to last.
*adds to wish list*
Quote from: snyprrr on June 10, 2014, 07:50:24 AM
btw- are we sold on Malko for 7?
Malko is good for the 7th, although he uses the money-making, happy ending which is a shame.
Quote from: snyprrr on June 10, 2014, 07:50:24 AM
Yea, that one looked good. Howz da sound?
The sound is a tad dated but there isn't anything remotely objectionable about it.
Quotebtw- are we sold on Malko for 7?
Absolutely. Fine performance and the sound is surprisingly clear and full - way ahead of the game for its time.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 10, 2014, 08:35:28 AM
Malko is good for the 7th, although he uses the money-making, happy ending which is a shame.
i could use a happy ending :P... with no shame :-[
Quote from: snyprrr on June 10, 2014, 08:40:07 AM
i could use a happy ending :P..
Hah! But you know Prokofiev won't give you the kind you need.
Sarge
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 09, 2014, 06:00:41 PM
Bold Chicago brass, and an incredibly intense 5th ...
Quote from: Todd on June 09, 2014, 06:06:39 PM
A bone-crunching, ear-drum endangering recording (because I always listen way too loud). No other conductor, not even Szell, can match Levine here.
I'll have to hear that. Until then, Szell goes to the desert island. The timings for snyprrr:
10:29 7:39 11:35 9:04
Sarge
Quote from: snyprrr on June 09, 2014, 05:54:21 PM
Symphony No.5, Op.100
I. Andante (10:30) 12:30 (15:30)
II. Allegro marcato 8:30 (most perf. clock in right here or just below)
III. Adagio (10:30) 11:30 (14:30)
IV. Allegro giocoso 9:30 (in just about every perf., this movement is pretty much right around 9:30)
Without much recollection, I picked up Dutoit's 5th, and ended up wonder why I'd like this amorphous Ballet Music- Symphony with Piano Obbligato- that I could imagine miiight catch my imagination if perhaps someone else performed it. A quick check showed that, at least tempo-wise, most performances of the second and fourth movements are about right where they are stated above, especially the fourth, where there is almost universal conformity (though, there are some quite brisk ones, such as Jansons/Chandos).
I.
Karajan takes 13:00. Some have taken it all the way to @10:30 (Jansons, I believe,Ansermet?Martinon?), whilst some may have even taken it out to 15:30 (I can't remember who this was). Dutoit sounded somewhat flaccid at 13:30, but, maybe that was just his fault and not the tempo's?
The music left me cold in Dutoit's hands, but I heard sumptuousness built into the stacked harmonies, so I knew that the music could come alive in the right hands. I'm curious about both the very quick and slow tempos- is there a Golden Rule concerning this movement?
II.
Timings are pretty consistent across the board, though some take it under 8:00. What's the secret here?
III.
Karajan clocks in at 13:30, but most seem to hover around 11:30, with some quicker still by a minute, and some stretched out passed 14 minutes. Again, what's the Golden Rule here?
IV.
This is the most consistent movement across the board. If we allow for so-and-so many seconds on either side of 9:30, then most every performance has just about exactly the same idea in mind, at least where tempo is concerned.
I'll forego the Discography at the moment, but I'm really curious about all the curious one-offs (such as, say, Celibidache), or the outrageously fast/slow- just- what are all the different things this Symphony can be and still work. Like I said, in Dutoit's hands, this became mid-afternoon nap inducing music of the highest order!
Karajan, Jansons,... those are the first two hits on Amazon... what're your choices?
I don't know the 5th as well as the 6th and 7th, but I know that I like Mravinsky on Praga, a recording made in 1967. I also have an unpublished one by Gergiev in Paris in 2009 which is special --I'l be happy to share it with anyone who's interested.
Quote from: snyprrr on June 10, 2014, 07:50:24 AM
btw- are we sold on Malko for 7?
I still prefer
Ozawa. Call me the contrarian . . . .
Quote from: karlhenning on June 10, 2014, 09:56:39 AM
I still prefer Ozawa. Call me the contrarian . . . .
+1. Tennstedt and Ozawa offer the best 7ths.
And I'll just call you Karl. :D
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 10, 2014, 09:58:32 AM
+1. Tennstedt and Ozawa offer the best 7ths.
And I'll just call you Karl. :D
Is this the thread where we call each other "Shirley"?
Quote from: Ken B on June 10, 2014, 12:42:48 PM
Is this the thread where we call each other "Shirley"?
Shirley, you can't be serious?
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 10, 2014, 12:52:54 PM
Shirley, you can't be serious?
I get so confused Steve, so confused.
BernsteinIPO 15:37 8:17 15:18 10:16
BernsteinNYP 15:17 7:57 14:35 10:30
Levi 15:11 8:42 14:48 9:53 Highly Rated
Leinsdorf 14:32 8:21 12:14 9:40
Kitaenko 14:23 8:51 ((12:33)) 9:31
Weller 13:53 8:58 14:37 9:21
Dutoit 13:58 8:28 12:00 9:58
Masur 13:49 8:47 (((13:01)))9:47
Ormandy 13:48 8:05 (((13:06))) 9:22
Handley 13:42 8:34 (((12:53)))9:49
Tennstedt 13:35 8:41 14:13 9:15 Highly Rated
Alsop 13:33 9:05 12:09 9:43
Barshai 13:18 8:23 ((12:31)) 9:21
Rattle 13:05 8:32 ((12:24)) 9:45
Muti 13:03 8:50 ((12:36)) 9:55
Ashkenazy1 13:00 8:27 11:55 9:14
Karajan 13:00 8:07 (((12:57)))9:13 Top Rating
Gergiev2 12:56 8:33 (((13:02))) 9:11
Celibidache 12:50 9:02 13:52 9:31
Temirkanov 12:48 8:28 11:23 9:19
Mravinsky88 12:33 8:13 10:55 9:22
Levine 12:33 8:22 12:16 9:11 Top Rating
Gergiev1 12:30 8:48 14:21? 9:*9
Kuchar 12:25 8:34 10:57 9:28
Jarvi 12:25 8:35 11:58 9:59 Top Rating
RozhBBC 12:13 8:43 11:39 10:06
Martinon2 12:00 7:58 11:01 9:40
Ozawa 11:50 8:49 11:12 9:48 Highly Rated
Ansermet 11:45 7:58 12:08 9:45
MartinonVOX 11:44 8:07 10:27 9:39
JansonsCH 11:02 8:05 10:16 8:51 Top Rating
Szell 10:29 7:39 11:35 9:03 Top Rating
Quote from: Todd on June 09, 2014, 06:06:39 PM
A bone-crunching, ear-drum endangering recording (because I always listen way too loud). No other conductor, not even Szell, can match Levine here. An awesome disc, first note to last.
Yes, this is very fine and was my favourite until I tried Concertgebouw/Ashkenazy which I marginally prefer now. But Levine's is certainly the most hefty recording.
Quote from: akiralx on June 12, 2014, 06:05:17 PM
Yes, this is very fine and was my favourite until I tried Concertgebouw/Ashkenazy which I marginally prefer now. But Levine's is certainly the most hefty recording.If
Ashkenazy's Prokofiev Symphonies set is one of the best things he's done. If Levine is to be smote, Ashkenazy is at least an acceptable foe.
Quote from: Todd on June 12, 2014, 06:12:42 PM
Ashkenazy's Prokofiev Symphonies set is one of the best things he's done. If Levine is to be smote, Ashkenazy is at least an acceptable foe.
He surprised me with an outstanding DSCH15. I was going to discount his 5th,... buuut,... I'm hearing outrageously good things about 6-7 with Cleveland (only criticism is he takes first mvmt. of 7 just a shade slow?). I'm also thinking about his 'Sinfonia-Concertante' with Lynn Harrell- it just seems his later Decca recordings are many times in the demonstration class, hmm?
I like all you have to do is mention Ashkenazy now and I'm sold (though I'd heard some criticism of his 5th somewhere).
Levine was too powerful for me, waaah. :laugh:
What about that outrageously slow Yoel Levi??
Quote from: snyprrr on June 12, 2014, 07:11:07 PM
Levine was too powerful for me, waaah. :laugh:
I used to have the Levine. It didn't grab me, either.
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on June 12, 2014, 08:28:18 PM
I used to have the Levine. It didn't grab me, either.
You'd call Sym. 5 'Apollonian'... like Stravinsky's 'Apollo'? Very distant portrait of heroic Man? It has 'An' emotion, but it surely isn't a Personal Emotionalism... it's very distanced,... played "just so" it could probably be the Perfect Space Music?
I really need a PERSONAL performance of this piece now... it probably doesn't matter whether it's "right" or "wrong", just as long as it's The One4Me,... though I'm sure I'd respond to more than one treatment.
I haaave to ask again about Yoel Levi and these 'Sanderling Slow' movements: yea or nay? Sarge?
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on June 12, 2014, 08:28:18 PM
I used to have the Levine. It didn't grab me, either.
Oh, pleeease tell how the Muti is-
and, thanks for the Leinsdorf recommends. That's certainly a contender's choice!
btw- everyone- I picked Ozawa to take me to opening night! I may still get Ashkenazy as a foil. And these would only be for initial listening response- I think this is the kind of Symphony I could enjoy having lots around, like 'Le Sacre'. But I know I'm not enjoying the overtly "physical" performances (Levine, Szell), though, I admit that this must be a Subjective Symphony par-excellence (meaning everyone's ALLOWED to "see it their way"- just for the yuks!).
No one has mention the Levi/Atlanta slow-fest! yay or nay?
Quote from: snyprrr on June 13, 2014, 04:50:28 PM
Oh, pleeease tell how the Muti is-
Dark and powerful with using middle of the road tempi, nothing too jarring in terms of interpretation but boasts an impressive display of dynamic shifting from the players. The Philadelphia Sound when Muti was their leader is remarkable, so balanced and transparent with no line going unnoticed, Phillips excellent recording plays a big part in this.
For me it stands as a strong choice, not only for a good 5th, but also because of getting
Meeting of the Volga and the Don, Op. 130 as a filler.
It can be found cheap/used and more than worth it.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 13, 2014, 05:19:25 PM
Dark and powerful with using middle of the road tempi, nothing too jarring in terms of interpretation but boasts an impressive display of dynamic shifting from the players. The Philadelphia Sound when Muti was their leader is remarkable, so balanced and transparent with no line going unnoticed, Phillips excellent recording plays a big part in this.
For me it stands as a strong choice, not only for a good 5th, but also because of getting Meeting of the Volga and the Don, Op. 130 as a filler.
It can be found cheap/used and more than worth it.
I'd like to offer you a cigarette after that! :laugh: SOLD!! (shhh, can't say MOR around Sarge!)
My theory is is that the Time/Speed Continuum 'comes together' around the 9-10 minute mark. If you look at the fast movements of this Symphony, and see that everyone is with a minute of each other- and yet, perhaps, there is not much discernible difference in the effect- this is the Time/Speed 'Sweet Spot':
obviously, a 3 minute piece, if a minute were added, would be catastrophic... if a 30 minute piece, it wouldn't be noticed,... right around 9-10 is when all this ineffable stuff happens.,.. uh, you know what I'm saying holmes?
This Symphony is a BlackHole of Time/Space Sweet Spots! Like no other I can think of ...
How are those first notes written? (the intro to the first movement-such a tricky 'feel')
How do you actually hear that opening in your head? When taken very fast it certainly has a totally different character than when taken very slow.
Quote from: snyprrr on June 13, 2014, 04:50:28 PM
Oh, pleeease tell how the Muti is-
Like GS said above Muti's performance is extremely well recorded: it's up close and personal, with much warmth. And I also agree it's very worthwhile hearing the music as it's darting around from section to section in such detail - like glow-in-the-dark body paint in motion.
But beyond that my rec of the Martinon still stands. Despite the somewhat dated sound Martinon is excellent at painting a colorful portrait of the music, partly because of the squeaky and squawky French winds and partly because the overall sound he generates is very see-through. I really enjoy the detail.
Quoteand, thanks for the Leinsdorf recommends. That's certainly a contender's choice!
You're welcome. :)
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on June 13, 2014, 06:35:44 PM
But beyond that my rec of the Martinon still stands. Despite the somewhat dated sound Martinon is excellent at painting a colorful portrait of the music, partly because of the squeaky and squawky French winds and partly because the overall sound he generates is very see-through. I really enjoy the detail.
Never listened to Martinon's recordings of Prokofiev,
it's available on Spotify so I'll give them a go. Correction: the disc with
ORTF National Orchestra is on Spotify, I don't think that's the one you were referring to.
Thanks for the recs,
DD.
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on June 13, 2014, 06:42:46 PM
Never listened to Martinon's recordings of Prokofiev, it's available on Spotify so I'll give them a go. Correction: the disc with ORTF National Orchestra is on Spotify, I don't think that's the one you were referring to.
Thanks for the recs, DD.
Yeah, the Martinon/Testament disc is an earlier recording and with a different orchestra: the very regal-sounding Orchestre de la Société des Concerts du Conservatoire.
I've never heard Martinon's ORTF Prokofiev although there was some chatter about it not long ago (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,22904.msg778241.html#msg778241) on another Prokofiev thread.
Quote from: snyprrr on June 13, 2014, 05:27:14 PM
I'd like to offer you a cigarette after that! :laugh: SOLD!! (shhh, can't say MOR around Sarge!)
Yes you can ;D I have thirteen op.100s that range from Szell to Kitajenko (next to Levi the slowest in the first movement). I enjoy them all. But you ask for a
single recommendation, and that recommendation from me is Szell despite it's seemingly extreme speeds (which, I think, do not sound extreme within Szell's overall conception of the work). But maybe a MOR version would be better for you if you only want one.
Quote from: snyprrr on June 13, 2014, 05:27:14 PM
This Symphony is a BlackHole of Time/Space Sweet Spots! Like no other I can think of ...
I don't agree. I think the symphony can take a wide range of tempi and sound good in any of them.
Sarge
Quote from: snyprrr on June 13, 2014, 09:55:50 AM
I haaave to ask again about Yoel Levi and these 'Sanderling Slow' movements: yea or nay? Sarge?
I don't have Levi but Kitajenko sounds fine in the first movement as does Weller in the Third. But you know I'm no help to you. I'm just not as concerned about some holy grail of the perfect tempo. I respond to, and enjoy the variety and range of interpretation. To me that's what makes classical music endlessly fascinating.
Sarge
My favourite, most exciting performance, is Rozhdestvensky with the USSR SO, which I had on an old EMI/Melodiya LP. I think that it is only available on CD as part of a boxed set:
[asin]B004FSJPG8[/asin]
Sarge, out of curiosity, what could we say is a piece that does NOT work well in a range of different tempos?
Quote from: Brian on June 14, 2014, 05:44:50 AM
Sarge, out of curiosity, what could we say is a piece that does NOT work well in a range of different tempos?
If you would have asked me 10 years ago I'd have an answer for you. Asked me 20 years ago and I'd have been dogmatic about some music...but now? no, I can't think of anything that doesn't work at different tempos, providing the listener has an open mind and no preconceived idea of how something should go. If everyone played Beethoven at his metronome markings, how boring would that be? snyprrr claims "the music wants to be played at the speed it was written"...but even if Prokofiev had left us a recording showing us precisely how he wanted the music played, would
we want everyone to slavishly follow that example? And anyway, I reserve the right to disregard the composer's intentions.
Sarge
I'm not sure I understand the ending to No.5. All of a sudden the sarcastic raspberries begin, and this Minimalist/Futurist machine music starts, Industrial,... and then,... pffft, done??? Huh?
Quote from: snyprrr on June 16, 2014, 07:09:13 AM
I'm not sure I understand the ending to No.5. All of a sudden the sarcastic raspberries begin, and this Minimalist/Futurist machine music starts, Industrial,... and then,... pffft, done??? Huh?
It seems like a less extreme version of what you hear at the end of Schubert's String Quintet D.956, where the mostly joyous finale suddenly ends on a really frightening bit of discord and then "... pffft, done"!
Quote from: Brian on June 16, 2014, 07:12:25 AM
It seems like a less extreme version of what you hear at the end of Schubert's String Quintet D.956, where the mostly joyous finale suddenly ends on a really frightening bit of discord and then "... pffft, done"!
interesting
how does it make you feel? I was kinda like, wtf- this ain't no classical ending to a soviet symphony- how could he possibly get away with such seemingly flagrant raspberry? Surely Khrennikov heard this as being cheeky, no? ARREST HIM!! ARREST HIM NOOOW!!
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 14, 2014, 04:35:13 AM
Yes you can ;D I have thirteen op.100s that range from Szell to Kitajenko (next to Levi the slowest in the first movement). I enjoy them all. But you ask for a single recommendation, and that recommendation from me is Szell despite it's seemingly extreme speeds (which, I think, do not sound extreme within Szell's overall conception of the work). But maybe a MOR version would be better for you if you only want one.
I don't agree. I think the symphony can take a wide range of tempi and sound good in any of them.
Sarge
First Listen to Ozawa's 5th.
Haha, you gotta love that plucked harp followed by the cymbal- such DG glorious excess of recording- oh! and the piano at @2:00. Already, from the first notes, Ozawa is making sense of this piece for me, whereas Dutoit's opening made me not quite understand the underlying rhythmic pulse: Ozawa underlines the "b-buuum" of the whole thing, whereas Dutoit taffy stretches it ever so little, but seems to pull it out of shape.
Ozawa may not be as emphatic in the "Messiaen theme" (the first appearence of the faster note values, @4:00), but, generally, Ozawa and the DG engineers emphasize the Technicolor Thief of Baghdad aspects to the motion (balletic)- you certainly are IN THE MIDDLE of the action here, haha!! woah now!! haha- I'm sure Ashkenazy's Decca perspective will be a little more 'realistic', but hey, could you pass the pate?!!
The
Allegro marcato seems standard- it actually sounds a little quicker than its 8:50 would suggest (Szell is 7:39). I don't feel any broadness, but there is a nice DG fatness I like, and the percussion is just,about,there.- just nice enough in the mix (am I hearing this thing panned out like Mike Oldfield?????).
The
Adagio is one of the quicker ones, and one certainly can't deny that an 11 minute performance isn't going to leave a different impression than a 15 minute one. Here actually I'm starting to feel slightly robbed of the gravitas by this quicker tempo (Dutoit is closer to 14, I think, and I thought his could have been either slower or faster). I'm just.not.feeling.Adagio.here.- it's more like 'The Sorcerer's Apprentice' instead of 'Apparition of Lovecraft'. Sure, there is a certain power, and the piano actually makes sense at this tempo- the recording is like hospital drugs!! But, if it is to be this fast, something else is missing; otherwise, it should be slower, to milk every last atom out of it. Still, it's compelling- I'd like to hear some critical thought about Ozawa's Adagio here? How do you justify it? Should it be slower?
Ozawa returns with a jolly swagger in the finale. Not too fast- kinda swing- me likey. he seems to bring out the bluff good humor of the opening paragraphs perfectly- though I'd like to know what you think about his 'insistence' at @3:40 (which I also heard in the Adagio). Frankly, the Berliners' playing is enough to classtaculate over! :-* I do like the swagger here, very suggestive of broad shouldered Russia. Perhaps there IS a sense that SOMEONE is being mad fun of- and that someone would have to be a big, broad shouldered man- a 'State' of a man? Wait?? What?? Is it ME he's making fun of? (it hits Stalin) the mocking... someone bring me the Music Minister!!
Yes, I wouldn't want this finale to be more aggressive, or violent. I like Ozawa's approach- and you still get the overwhelming sense that at some point in the premiere, someone muuust have gotten it, and doom was spelled- what note was it that sealed Prokofiev's fate??
The the coda is handled beautifully here by Ozawa and the Berliners, not to mention the space-age recording techniques!! ::) :o :laugh: 0:) It sure makes it sound like the end of a sci-fi movie- Awesome!! The tick-tock bit is just chilling.
So, Ozawa takes Dutoit 3 out of 4, with Dutoit having the singular good sense to at least milk the Adagio a tiny bit (still only making one want more). Ashkenazy will soon come to take on Ozawa the Contender. He may eventually fall to someone of similar spirits who simply has a more... 'natural' :laugh:... recording perspective- though, this 'Futureworld' recording is pretty stunning and it may take on all comers.
Quote from: snyprrr on June 16, 2014, 07:09:13 AM
I'm not sure I understand the ending to No.5. All of a sudden the sarcastic raspberries begin, and this Minimalist/Futurist machine music starts, Industrial,... and then,... pffft, done??? Huh?
I've always assumed the point was to pull the rug out from under the listener. Suddenly the whole narrative of the symphony is called into question.
The original ending of the 7th does much the same, though with greater subtlety.
Quote from: edward on June 19, 2014, 06:09:46 PM
I've always assumed the point was to pull the rug out from under the listener. Suddenly the whole narrative of the symphony is called into question.
The original ending of the 7th does much the same, though with greater subtlety.
And the 6th too, except that one is absolutely cataclysmic- but there one can definitely tell that someone in authority is being mocked, before the devastation occurs. If 6 is really a send up of 5?...which is a send up of... which is a... is a...
Quote from: Todd on June 12, 2014, 06:12:42 PM
Ashkenazy's Prokofiev Symphonies set is one of the best things he's done. If Levine is to be smote, Ashkenazy is at least an acceptable foe.
Wow, this 1985 Concertgebouw/Decca recording is like the lost Haitink 5th!
i guess!!
Yea, Ashkenazy keeps the tension throughout: this is a dark, passionate yet stately cinematic ode to the forces shaping mens' lives. I keep hearing Korea in the music of 5-6, or Vietnam, or just some movie like that, haha! Anyhow-
The First Movement is rendered with vital tension. Perhaps my calculations were off. Maybe the formula is
tempo / tension = the key to awesome
Whatever the difference between Ozawa and Dutoit, when both are faced with Ashkenazy's vision, they seem not as involved, perhaps? The entrance of the quick motif @4mins is here underlined much better than in either Ozawa's or Dutoit's performance. Ashkenazy underlines each note individually in such a way as to render tempo obsolete.
The
Allegro marcato is given a unique feel here. Generally, everyone so far does something different, and cool, here; but, Ashkenazy is able to bring out the humor by playing things faux-reserved- and I'm going to give him points for this daring do.
Currently in a very taut
Adagio which does bring out the creepy factor. Ozawa was pretty quick here, at 11:13, and Dutoit was in-between slow and fas at 12:00t. Here i think Ashkenazy pulls off the 'faster' version beautifully (the NOT milking it, haha). Notice how Ashkenazy, at 11:54, is right at Dutoit's timing, but, Ashkenazy's tension makes up for the apparent awkwardness of Dutoit's choices.
Ashkenazy takes the 'fast' ending, though he manages to retain some of the swagger present in Ozawa's reading. Hold on, we're almost at the end now... shh... ah yes, well tha was thrilling! Ashkenazy captures the closing minutes' raucous cacophony with a vivid technicolour flourish- the ending percussion is beautifully caught; and this is not to say that Ozawa's ending wasn't pretty spectacular (but the recording is part of that), but the Concertgebouw's timapani really get some nice whacks in.
So, Dutoit is uncompetitive, and for all of Ozawa's wonder at the podium, it is the profanely babylonian DG recording that is the star of that show. Ashkenazy's Decca perspective is more realistic without sacrificing vicious impact, in fact, Ashkenazy deals with more testosterone than Ozawa, period (though, Ozawa's finale is superb). Ashkenazy sort of takes it, with Ozawa in the running. Neeext!!
Muti?
MTT?
Muti?
OH YEEEA!!
A really incredible Philips Experience on this one folks-
Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on June 13, 2014, 06:35:44 PM
Like GS said above Muti's performance is extremely well recorded: it's up close and personal, with much warmth. And I also agree it's very worthwhile hearing the music as it's darting around from section to section in such detail - like glow-in-the-dark body paint in motion.
yeeea! It just got louder and Louder and LOUDER!! Wow, now that's what I'm talkin' about with Philips and why I'll try music I don't necessarily go for with a Philips.
Frankly, that Ashkenazy/Concertgebouw is just as good- different sound profile (just two top companies' different techniques that both work equally well). Muti's engineers, though, have delivered a DANGEROUS! recording- watch out! (it's not Telarc 'kill your speaker with bass drum', but it's a really powerful recording, whew- pow.wow.wer.ful)
I recommend both as a pair, and both are cheep cheep. wow! (the brass....nyyyyyaaaahhhhh :P )
btw- the very ending- I give the ashkenazy just a fraction more on clarity- the muti here is just a fraction wilder, bristling, ashk. more cinematic. Both take the 1st mvmt precisely the same to similar effect.