Please let him post without someone moderating what he says. Spontaneity is the essence of his poetry.
QuoteCongress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
It's naïf to invoke the First Amendment in this case. I leave it to you to discover why.
Can this be moved to General Discussion?
Did I miss something that prompted this thread?
I believe that Snyprr can't post here until his posts have been approved. Who knows how long the approval process takes but it's hardly conducive to lively exchange of opinions and ideas. I'm not sure why the éminences grises have lost confidence in him, he thinks it's got something to do with a discussion about Wuorinen, I just browsed that thread but I didn't see a problem myself . . .
. . . except for the title Grand Bamboula which is unbelievably offensive in French, bamboula being one of the most offensive racist insults in French.
Somebody should take the most creative of snyprrr's posts and publish them together in book form, without divulging where they came from. It would probably win the Pulitzer Prize for Poetry.
Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on June 18, 2018, 09:58:35 AM
Somebody should take the most creative of snyprrr's posts and publish them together in book form, without divulging where they came from. It would probably win the Pulitzer Prize for Poetry.
In much the same way that a formaldehyded skate would win an Art prize 8)
I love snyprrr; his posts are always entertaining, often thought provoking, sometimes controversial but always honest. I don't think he is brash or rude to the extent that his posts must always be approved by a moderator before posting, unless I'm wrong and allowing him to post whenever and whatever he likes would be unleashing the devil or something (but really, it's not really like that at all anyway). I've really enjoyed reading his thoughts in the Wuorinen thread, often I find myself agreeing but disagreeing at the same time, which is an interesting position to be in. I hope he can post how he likes soon.
Dudes, he's a straight up anti-semite. What are you nattering on about?
Quote from: Daverz on June 18, 2018, 02:28:39 PM
Dudes, he's a straight up anti-semite. What are you nattering on about?
Really? I didn't know. There's another member who has posted out and out racist things repeatedly but with such ferocious speed that it seems they aren't subject to the same limitation.
There are some posters I find irritating.
Quote from: Sammy on June 18, 2018, 02:56:24 PM
There are some posters I find irritating.
This is why I only stick non-irritating posters on my wall.
Even when snypsss is on his best behavior, his tics have ceased to have any entertainment value for me. Of course, it isn't as if he were responsible for entertaining me. But most of his strictly musical posts boil down to how difficult he is to please, and how resistant to reason the process can be.
Quote from: Jackman on June 18, 2018, 03:57:46 PM
Like you and your game threads on every fucking forum I go on? you're one of them.
I don't miss Snyprrr because I've never seen his posts before
This is an example of someone being mean on the internet.
Quote from: jessop on June 18, 2018, 04:58:42 PM
This is an example of someone being mean on the internet.
Pfffft. Karl once linked to Mennin's 8th. Now
that was being mean on the internet.
Quote from: Jackman on June 18, 2018, 03:57:46 PM
Like you and your game threads on every fucking forum I go on?
You evidently only go to 2 forums.
Quote from: Daverz on June 18, 2018, 02:28:39 PM
Dudes, he's a straight up anti-semite. What are you nattering on about?
He's antisemitic, very anti-black, extremely misogynist, deeply homophobic & transphobic, and expresses these views at any opportunity outside the music threads (or sometimes even
in the music threads). His thoughts on music are often worth reading and valuable, but everything else I can do without, which is why he's on my ignore list and has been for some time, and also why I keep The Diner hidden from default view. If y'all don't have a problem with his non-musical posts or are capable of ignoring them you have more fortitude than I do.
I mean he's not the worst poster we've had on this forum by a long shot, I don't think he necessarily deserves the special courtesy of moderation or banning, but I won't be lining up to pay homage personally.
Quote from: Mandryka on June 18, 2018, 09:43:27 AM
. . . except for the title Grand Bamboula which is unbelievably offensive in French, bamboula being one of the most offensive racist insults in French.
Kind of what happens when your aesthetic position is completely "disinterested" from worldly concerns because you can afford to live with your cat and husband in a three-story semi-detached townhouse on one of the Upper West Side's most expensive streets. (And a country house in New Jersey, apparently.) That's probably a discussion for a different thread though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Quote from: amw on June 18, 2018, 05:26:00 PM
He's antisemitic, very anti-black, extremely misogynist, deeply homophobic & transphobic, and expresses these views at any opportunity outside the music threads (or sometimes even in the music threads).
I obviously haven't been here long enough.
His music posts are great, but I don't see the point in abusing freedom of speech to spread hateful sentiments.
QuoteI keep The Diner hidden from default view
How?
Quote from: San Antone on June 18, 2018, 05:44:11 PM
How?
The "Back Room" section has a small minus button over on the far right. If you click that, it collapses the section so that it no longer appears on the forum homepage.
Quote from: amw on June 18, 2018, 05:48:24 PM
The "Back Room" section has a small minus button over on the far right. If you click that, it collapses the section so that it no longer appears on the forum homepage.
Thanks. A good idea.
Quote from: jessop on June 18, 2018, 05:33:17 PM
I obviously haven't been here long enough.
His music posts are great, but I don't see the point in abusing freedom of speech to spread hateful sentiments.
An exercise is not an abuse. There is of course no point in exercising freedom of speech to spread hateful sentiments.
Quote from: Mandryka on June 18, 2018, 09:43:27 AM. . . except for the title Grand Bamboula which is unbelievably offensive in French, bamboula being one of the most offensive racist insults in French.
Quote from: amw on June 18, 2018, 05:26:00 PMKind of what happens when your aesthetic position is completely "disinterested" from worldly concerns because you can afford to live with your cat and husband in a three-story semi-detached townhouse on one of the Upper West Side's most expensive streets. (And a country house in New Jersey, apparently.) That's probably a discussion for a different thread though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Do either of you know when that usage developed? The English language Wiki doesn't mention it until last year, which is over 30 years after Wuorinen wrote a piece using it in a title. On the French Wiki, on the other hand, the page was created for the slur back in 2005, and only afterwards modified to show the origin of the term in a type of drum and dance.
My assumption has always been that it goes back to the French colonisation of West Africa, during which the French did some not very nice things, but I don't know for sure. There are no signs Wuorinen is aware of, or has ever acknowledged, the offensive nature of the word, which is the larger problem I was thinking of.
Well you know that bit about ass u me
So before Charles has to do the white oppressor perp walk, Maybe y'all could just have looked at the Wikipedia entry to see that bamboula refers to a drum, going back to an 1845 Gottschalk piece, with the French racist slur being a more recent usage of the word.
Quote from: amw on June 18, 2018, 06:30:10 PMThere are no signs Wuorinen is aware of, or has ever acknowledged, the offensive nature of the word [regardless of whether that usage existed at the time he wrote the piece], which is the larger problem I was thinking of.
Why are his posts being moderated?
There is no sign that the Han Dynasty scribes were aware of, or ever acknowledged, the offensiveness of the swastika, which is the larger problem someone is thinking of.
I haven't read anything about 'General Classical Music' yet.
If there ever was a Diner thread, then it would be this one.
Quote from: bwv 1080 on June 18, 2018, 07:30:09 PM
Well you know that bit about ass u me
So before Charles has to do the white oppressor perp walk, Maybe y'all could just have looked at the Wikipedia entry to see that bamboula refers to a drum, going back to an 1845 Gottschalk piece, with the French racist slur being a more recent usage of the word.
Why would you even begin to label Wuorinen himself as some kind of oppressor?
amw seems to be making a different point entirely, about French colonialism and the history of the word according to French usage. It could certainly be perceived as having ill intentions if
Grand Bamboula was performed in France, however, I presume that kind of reception would simply be the result of a misunderstanding due to lack of information.
Quote from: Mahlerian on June 18, 2018, 06:01:21 PM
Do either of you know when that usage developed? The English language Wiki doesn't mention it until last year, which is over 30 years after Wuorinen wrote a piece using it in a title. On the French Wiki, on the other hand, the page was created for the slur back in 2005, and only afterwards modified to show the origin of the term in a type of drum and dance.
This suggests that by the time of the first world war,
bamboula was racist
http://www.jeuneafrique.com/402466/societe/bamboula-histoire-dune-injure-raciste-ancree-limaginaire-francais/
QuoteDes « bamboulas » pour sodomiser les « boches »
Mais c'est en 1914, avec l'arrivée des tirailleurs sénégalais sur le front que le terme se charge lourdement de mépris. « Le mot renvoie alors à une imagerie alliant sauvagerie, cannibalisme, sexualité animale et rire, naïveté enfantine supposée des soldats noirs », souligne Marie Treps. On la retrouve dans des caricatures du magazine français L'Illustration, alors abondamment diffusé. Le tirailleur sénégalais, personnage à la fois violent et « rigolo » dans les dessins de l'époque, menace par exemple les soldats allemands de sodomie.
« Le terme a beaucoup été utilisé au moment des grandes expositions coloniales, remarque la linguiste. Il flatte le paternalisme du colon. Derrière le terme « bamboula », il y a l'idée que les Noirs sont des grands enfants qu'il faut civiliser. Et finalement, ce qui est commode à l'époque c'est que l'être humain disparaît derrière sa caricature. Ainsi, en 1914, ce ne sont pas des humains que l'on envoie au front se faire tuer, seulement des « bamboulas ». On occulte la violence qui est faite à une population. La maladresse du syndicaliste sur France 5 est troublante : c'est ce terme ancien qui lui vient spontanément pour dénoncer les insultes qui sont également faites aux policiers, preuve que le mot est toujours présent dans l'inconscient post-colonial français. Et c'est une manière, encore une fois, de dissimuler les violences subies par les Noirs. »
Quote from: Mandryka on June 18, 2018, 09:08:23 PM
Why are his posts being moderated?
Let me repeat the question
for the forum's moderators, in case it gets lost in the stuff about bamboula.
Why are snyprr's posts being moderated?
Well, with the shouting, this is officially a
Don't you realize who I am?! Answer me! deal, eh?
What if the moderators are just giving you the opportunity to do your own research?
(Anyone who considers this "poetry" ought to get out more. A lot more.)
In the Compulsive Disassociative CD Collecting Disease (CDCDCD) thread, if you please:
Quote from: snyprrr on April 26, 2014, 07:55:02 AM
nice pillows!! :P :o :-*
:'( :'( :'( :'(
All these old ladies are hitting on me. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( fuuuuuuuuu.......
Wow, I haven't had any fun since I got here five long years ago. :(
(trance)
ok, snap out of it.... (shivers).... wow, that was scary ten seconds there....
Seriously, I've asked every female I know.... turns out I'm hot for the lesbian too, wgh.... and she's a political lesbian, so it's all in here head, ugh ugh.... and she's the only one who is at all interesting, but then she gets on the soap box....
aaaaahhhhhh
Can just ONE girl I'M interested in be interested in me too??? Fuuuu..... I'm tired of just getting the ones who like ME. At this point, I seem to have only attracted women that I feel I need to be rude to to get them to stop. :( :( :(
"So, honey, you come here often?" Yes, the oldest drunk lady came on to me. I mean, they all say I'm handsome, and bla bla, but I'm dying.....
I'm at the point where I just want to ask random women if they're up for some fun. I've already been uber rejected for being a chump, so why not just...... uh...... I don't know- if girls like 'asshole bad boys' well I just don't do 'asshole' well- they REALLY think I'm an ass when I try to be the bad boy.
so depressed... just me and Schnittke... hangin out..... fuuuu.....
I even thought about "spending money", but, no, that's not even real, is it? (and don't make me tell you how I know)
No equality as long as they have all the p****.
sorry, had to let that all out- it's a new year and ....
You know, the only place I really really forget my misery is in the shower. Warm water seems to make things go away. That and a giant constitutional. Otherwise- why do I even want to eat since I have no one to share it with?
I made my own English Toffee- why am I not a catch?? :laugh: (I make my own pizza, I make english toffe,- I mean, wtf ladies???)
\
It's funny though- I'm sure the ladies on this site have had quite a dose of the snyprrr brand, and I can only imagine my standing would be pretty low- unless a flattering pic takes all that away?
How cultured really do I want my lady?
Anyhow, that's enough food for the lions for one post :( (I just don't care, do I?) Am I like Marty Pufkin? (Paul Schaeffer)
Quote from: snyprrr on May 20, 2015, 05:34:23 PM
nope, no fake jews running the show, nope, not at all ("JEWS" COMES UP AS A MISSPELLED WORD,LOL)
btw- MY EEEYEEES :'( ??? :'( ??? :'( ???
Quote from: snyprrr on June 07, 2011, 07:45:29 AM
Not at all, my dear Herman:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shyster
It is by mere coincidence that Weiner is a Jewish lawyer (if he is a lawyer?)! ;)
Also, keep in mind that Arabs are of Semitic origin too. I know that that minor fact gets in the way of Zionist victim posturing, but hey, into every life a little rain must fall. And let's not get into who is an Edomite and who isn't. I know for a fact this is the only topic on planet earth one is not allowed to question or discuss or anything. Remember, last week Netanyahu, to the whole world, said he spoke for all Jews, i.e., if you do not tow MY line, you are either an anti-semite, or a self loathing jew. So, what, are my creds moot? Who's the anti-semite?
Oy vey, Herman, why don't we just start the Jewish Question Thread and just be done with the hinting? yeesh!!
I'm sorry if I'm not one of those "everything's anti-semitism" Jews. All sex is rape, btw. Only the devil has blue eyes, etc.,...
Hey, I'm sorry, I just couldn't think of the goy word for shyster. :-[ :-* What is it, for future reference?
In a way, this reminds me of what it was like talking to certain female lovers of mine in the past. If I related a story of my day, and there happened to be a person (or animal) with a vagina in the story, well, let me tell you, all of a sudden I was cheating,... so, I learned to turn everyone in my stories into a male. So, I'm sorry I used a 'bad' word, Herman, and just remember that, if you ever hear me tell a story in the future, you'll never know now if the person I'm talking about is a jew or not. I do this to protect you, Herman, from,... is it?... YOUR antisemitism??????? Is it antisemetic for a jew to use the word shyster??
I only go on, because these days, calling out someone as an 'antisemite' seems to be the worst thing you can possibly say about someone (unless of course it's an "antisemitic pedophiliac"). Is it antiseme to criticize ANY aspect of the State of Israel?? Some certainly believe so.
Shall I change the Thread Title, Herman, and get us all barred?? ???
anti-semitism, indeed. >:D
Weiner's a weiner, pffft. For once, just let a jew fall without calling anyone The Name (is it Hashem, or AntiSem????).
RANT: off
so that's why his posts are being moderated.
Quote from: Mandryka on June 19, 2018, 12:03:53 AM
Let me repeat the question for the forum's moderators, in case it gets lost in the stuff about bamboula.
Why are snyprr's posts being moderated?
If it was something that was open for public discussion, I would have discussed it with the public a long time ago. If I had business with you, you wouldn't be bloody happy if I posted it all out here for everyone to read. I respect privacy, as should we all.
GB
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on June 19, 2018, 04:49:55 AM
If it was something that was open for public discussion, I would have discussed it with the public a long time ago. If I had business with you, you wouldn't be bloody happy if I posted it all out here for everyone to read. I respect privacy, as should we all.
GB
Hear hear.
Curious minds though......
Quote from: jessop on June 19, 2018, 04:46:13 AM
so that's why his posts are being moderated.
With an alcoholic, sometimes you firmly take the glass out of his hand.
It's a different kind of wagon, but
snypsss has an imperfect history of being near, let alone on, it . . . .
Quote from: Mandryka on June 18, 2018, 10:37:39 PM
This suggests that by the time of the first world war, bamboula was racist
http://www.jeuneafrique.com/402466/societe/bamboula-histoire-dune-injure-raciste-ancree-limaginaire-francais/
Thanks for the information.
This may be OT, but does anyone remember the guy who was channelling Glenn Gould?
That was quirky fun as much as I regard snyprrr as harmless and good for some chuckles.
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on June 19, 2018, 07:39:36 AM
This may be OT, but does anyone remember the guy who was channelling Glenn Gould?
That was quirky fun as much as I regard snyprrr as harmless and good for some chuckles.
Yes, I forgot about that
And wasnt there also a guy who had some conspiracy theory about someone else writing Mozart's pieces?
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on June 19, 2018, 04:49:55 AM
If it was something that was open for public discussion, I would have discussed it with the public a long time ago.
GB
Ah
Quote from: bwv 1080 on June 19, 2018, 07:42:50 AM
Yes, I forgot about that
And wasnt there also a guy who had some conspiracy theory about someone else writing Mozart's pieces?
The spice of life, things we remember not the humdrum everyday grind.
Quote from: zamyrabyrd on June 19, 2018, 07:39:36 AM
This may be OT, but does anyone remember the guy who was channelling Glenn Gould?
That was quirky fun as much as I regard snyprrr as harmless and good for some chuckles.
That impression is aided by the quiet filtration.
Quote from: bwv 1080 on June 19, 2018, 07:42:50 AM
Yes, I forgot about that
And wasnt there also a guy who had some conspiracy theory about someone else writing Mozart's pieces?
I DO remember the Glenn Gould guy, but not his name. He was serious, which made him funnier. :)
The famous Rob Newman, of course. The Internet sensation. We entertained him for longer than most do, but eventually he broke down. I enjoyed Rob, he was in his own world, that's for sure!
8)
Rob "At Last It Can Be Told!" Newman
As a lover of Pelleas et Melisande I remember the GMG member who was so over the top about the opera that even I avoided the thread.
;)
Quote from: San Antone on June 19, 2018, 08:40:04 AM
As a lover of Pelleas et Melisande I remember the GMG member who was so over the top about the opera that even I avoided the thread.
;)
Our old friend Pinky. (Pink Harp). What a lovely fellow he was, don't understand how he irritated people so much. Of course, I never read the opera thread in those days... :)
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on June 19, 2018, 08:25:45 AM
I DO remember the Glenn Gould guy, but not his name.
Contrapunctus, if I recall correctly.
Quote from: (: premont :) on June 19, 2018, 09:35:48 AM
Contrapunctus, if I recall correctly.
Yes, that's it! Quite a character. :)
8)
Whoa there. You mean even on GMG people still think Mozart wrote his own stuff??
Quote from: Ken B on June 19, 2018, 10:58:39 AM
Whoa there. You mean even on GMG people still think Mozart wrote his own stuff??
We're woefully behind the times here,
Ken. Some people even think Haydn wrote his own stuff, which is ridiculous, as we know now. Those 2 were just figureheads for an entire Italian industry. Generous Austrians! ::)
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on June 19, 2018, 11:34:49 AM
We're woefully behind the times here, Ken. Some people even think Haydn wrote his own stuff, which is ridiculous, as we know now. Those 2 were just figureheads for an entire Italian industry. Generous Austrians! ::)
8)
All I know for sure is that when Mozart was a kid in England he got his hands on a trunk full of music by the Earl of Oxford, Edward De Vere, and passed it off as his own over the years. I had heard the rumor that Roger Bacon wrote all of Haydn's stuff, but didn't really believe it until now.
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on June 19, 2018, 04:49:55 AM
If it was something that was open for public discussion, I would have discussed it with the public a long time ago. If I had business with you, you wouldn't be bloody happy if I posted it all out here for everyone to read. I respect privacy, as should we all.
GB
How can anyone be reassured that you've made the right decision?
I imagine it was discussed by the moderation team internally. That's generally been standard practice in my experience of moderating web forums.
Quote from: Mandryka on June 19, 2018, 09:49:09 PM
How can anyone be reassured that you've made the right decision?
Because most others would have outright banned him for the repetitive and insulting nature of some of his posts. I know I would have. So the fact that they have given themselves more work in an effort to keep a member tells me that they have made the right decision.
Quote from: mc ukrneal on June 19, 2018, 10:29:48 PM
Because most others would have outright banned him for the repetitive and insulting nature of some of his posts.
Ah
All I know is that snyprrr never wrote anything I wasn't able to ignore. Made especially easy by the fact that you can tell one of his posts, typographically and smilographically, from a mile away.
I am one of the very few GMG members who have actually lived in a regime where freely speaking one's own mind was a risky business that not unfrequently could have landed one in jail, or worse, so I am particularly sensitive to the issue of free speech. Therefore, allowing for many of his posts being sheer incoherent rants, I find the decision to moderate each and every future post of his greatly exaggerated; I know the moderators will not agree and will protest to the contrary, but I can't help saying that it smells like censorship to me.
By writing this I don't want to get into a polemic: just wanted to say that for someone who has experienced censorship first hand seeing it (or the appearance of it) even on an innocuous and inconsequential internet forum* is disturbing.
* seriously now, does anyone really believe that snyprrr's posts, read at most by a handful of people and taken seriously by even less, are so dangerous and socially disruptive as to warrant the moderators taking the trouble to expurgate them ad usum GMGi? Obnoxious to some people they certainly are, but if this is a criterion for "censoring" or banning them, then we should all cease posting altogether because pretty much everything we say could be potentially obnoxious to someone, somewhere.
Furthermore, as Jens said, Snyprrrr's posts could have been easily ignored altogether, but it seems to me that at least one person took a guilty pleasure in reading and replying to almost each and every one of them.
My two cents and I'm not going to pursue the matter any further. (Note to moderators: I mean no offense to you, gentlemen, and I hope you won't take any.)
Quote from: Florestan on June 20, 2018, 12:10:52 AM
I am one of the very few GMG members who have actually lived in a regime where freely speaking one's own mind was a risky business that not unfrequently could have landed one in jail, or worse, so I am particularly sensitive to the issue of free speech. Therefore, allowing for many of his posts being sheer incoherent rants, I find the decision to moderate each and every future post of his greatly exaggerated; I know the moderators will not agree and will protest to the contrary, but I can't help saying that it smells like censorship to me.
By writing this I don't want to get into a polemic: just wanted to say that for someone who has experienced censorship first hand seeing it (or the appearance of it) even on an innocuous and inconsequential internet forum* is disturbing.
* seriously now, does anyone really believe that snyprrr's posts, read at most by a handful of people and taken seriously by even less, are so dangerous and socially disruptive as to warrant the moderators taking the trouble to expurgate them ad usum GMGi? Obnoxious to some people they certainly are, but if this is a criterion for "censoring" or banning them, then we should all cease posting altogether because pretty much everything we say could be potentially obnoxious to someone, somewhere.
Furthermore, as Jens said, Snyprrrr's posts could have been easily ignored altogether, but it seems to me that at least one person took a guilty pleasure in reading and replying to almost each and every one of them.
My two cents and I'm not going to pursue the matter any further. (Note to moderators: I mean no offense to you, gentlemen, and I hope you won't take any.)
The whole reason I came here was to escape from Boards that allowed 'anything goes'. I was tired of the put downs, insults, rudeness, cruelty, bullying, general offensiveness, etc. that could be found on some other forums (specifically, one other forum). The moderation of the site is something we all agreed to when we signed up.
I look at everything with a bit of a different light though. Are there posts on the site that would dissuade anyone from joining the site? And while I can confidently say that most music threads do not have posts that would turn anyone away or off, I cannot say the same about many non-music threads. I think we lose members (or potential members) in this way.
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on June 19, 2018, 10:49:43 PM
All I know is that snyprrr never wrote anything I wasn't able to ignore. Made especially easy by the fact that you can tell one of his posts, typographically and smilographically, from a mile away.
Me too. But I could also see that others might have a hard time ignoring some of that stuff. There were always hateful comments hidden amongst the stream-of-consciousness bits of amusement. There is an ethical responsibility to this job which requires looking past my own tastes and abilities. If I was just a member, I would have dealt with this far more easily than as a mod. :-\
8)
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on June 20, 2018, 04:25:47 AM
Me too. But I could also see that others might have a hard time ignoring some of that stuff. There were always hateful comments hidden amongst the stream-of-consciousness bits of amusement.
8)
There are mighty few turd-in-the-punch-bowl
artistes to vie with ol' snypsss.
Quote from: Florestan on June 20, 2018, 12:10:52 AM
I am one of the very few GMG members who have actually lived in a regime where freely speaking one's own mind was a risky business that not unfrequently could have landed one in jail, or worse, so I am particularly sensitive to the issue of free speech. Therefore, allowing for many of his posts being sheer incoherent rants, I find the decision to moderate each and every future post of his greatly exaggerated; I know the moderators will not agree and will protest to the contrary, but I can't help saying that it smells like censorship to me.
By writing this I don't want to get into a polemic: just wanted to say that for someone who has experienced censorship first hand seeing it (or the appearance of it) even on an innocuous and inconsequential internet forum* is disturbing.
* seriously now, does anyone really believe that snyprrr's posts, read at most by a handful of people and taken seriously by even less, are so dangerous and socially disruptive as to warrant the moderators taking the trouble to expurgate them ad usum GMGi? Obnoxious to some people they certainly are, but if this is a criterion for "censoring" or banning them, then we should all cease posting altogether because pretty much everything we say could be potentially obnoxious to someone, somewhere.
Furthermore, as Jens said, Snyprrrr's posts could have been easily ignored altogether, but it seems to me that at least one person took a guilty pleasure in reading and replying to almost each and every one of them.
My two cents and I'm not going to pursue the matter any further. (Note to moderators: I mean no offense to you, gentlemen, and I hope you won't take any.)
Quote from: mc ukrneal on June 20, 2018, 02:17:58 AM
The whole reason I came here was to escape from Boards that allowed 'anything goes'. I was tired of the put downs, insults, rudeness, cruelty, bullying, general offensiveness, etc. that could be found on some other forums (specifically, one other forum). The moderation of the site is something we all agreed to when we signed up.
I look at everything with a bit of a different light though. Are there posts on the site that would dissuade anyone from joining the site? And while I can confidently say that most music threads do not have posts that would turn anyone away or off, I cannot say the same about many non-music threads. I think we lose members (or potential members) in this way.
Well, I do take a little bit, actually. As Neal says, anything goes is not an answer. There are places for that. We allow far more than many places, but far less than others. I think that's a good balance. We allow 'fuck Shostakovich', but we don't allow 'fuck Florestan'. I'm sure you can appreciate the difference.
And once again, as I do every 5 years or so, I remind all members that 'free speech' and censorship are not a legitimate issue, they are straw men. This is a privately owned and operated forum, not affiliated with any governmental agency, and you are here by mutual consent.
Any member that we get dozens (literally dozens, not figuratively) of complaints about needs to be dealt with in some way. The current situation is the best compromise we could come up with, with the extremes being 'do nothing' and 'banish permanently'. The other middling choices were already exhausted years ago.
Quote from: Mandryka on June 19, 2018, 09:49:09 PM
How can anyone be reassured that you've made the right decision?
What do you want me to say? I always make the right decision? Well, actually I usually do, to be honest. Sometimes not. And what's right for some is wrong for others, so how can you even know? I can tell you this; you still see 90-95% of all his posts, just like looking back through you still see 80-85% of all his posts. The ones you don't see, I would say you will still sleep well tonight without them.
Let's put this issue to bed. There could very well come a day when Snipper's double-secret probation comes to an end. Meanwhile, at least he hasn't committed seppuku yet...
8)
Gurn, I just want you to know that I (and I am sure many others) appreciate the often thankless job you and the other moderators do, on a daily basis. The rest of us just come here and read and post. But y'all can't just do that, but have to involve yourselves with overseeing our behavior.
Thanks.
Quote from: San Antone on June 20, 2018, 05:03:10 AM
Gurn, I just want you to know that I (and I am sure many others) appreciate the often thankless job you and the other moderators do, on a daily basis. The rest of us just come here and read and post. But y'all can't just do that, but have to involve yourselves with overseeing our behavior.
Thanks.
Thank you. I wonder sometimes, when people complain about the level of moderation in other venues, whether they actually realize how free they are here. Nothing can be seamless, but we do have a go at that.
8)
Just wanted to add that yes, the mods do discuss these issues, and no, none of us wants extra time spent on them, or extra work in moderating someone. Like most people here, I am interested in talking about music.
If someone is repeatedly called into question -- and by different members (yes, we note and discuss constant complainers, too) -- then we take action. Often that action is behind the scenes, especially if someone is basically a good egg, but for some reason has had a temporary outage. We want to resolve the problem, not have it fester.
It's a balancing act, which doesn't always work out neatly. But I would like to think that, as people go, the four of us have common sense -- which to be sure, can also fail now and then.
Our Australian mad scientist/creator Rob Lang has created something perhaps more successful than he dreamed (and has poured more money into it than many here may realize). It is a rather well-functioning community, considering the hundreds of people here, and their diverse approaches to listening. (And believe me, apropos the "fuck Shostakovich" example, as a Bruckner fan, I am used to abuse. ;D )
In any case, carry on. Now more than ever, given the rotten state of the world, it's important to affirm the things that are important in life. And snyprrrr will survive (he's still here, after all).
--Bruce
Quote from: San Antone on June 20, 2018, 05:03:10 AM
Gurn, I just want you to know that I (and I am sure many others) appreciate the often thankless job you and the other moderators do, on a daily basis. The rest of us just come here and read and post. But y'all can't just do that, but have to involve yourselves with overseeing our behavior.
Thanks.
Thank you. As volunteer jobs go, this isn't exactly feeding the hungry ;D but it's a worthy activity anyway. And most people here (98%) go for years -- YEARS -- without any intervention of any type.
--Bruce
Quote from: Brewski on June 20, 2018, 05:24:45 AM
[...] And most people here (98%) go for years -- YEARS -- without any intervention of any type.
--Bruce
How is that medically possibly? 8)
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 20, 2018, 05:27:31 AM
How is that medically possibly? 8)
;D :laugh: 8)
Ah, the miracles of modern medicine...
--Bruce
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on June 20, 2018, 04:40:57 AM
We allow 'fuck Shostakovich', but we don't allow 'fuck Florestan'. I'm sure you can appreciate the difference.
I certainly do, but as far as I can remember snyprrr did not "fuck" any member, on the contrary, it's he who's been a constant target of derision and abuse. I might be wrong, though.
Quote from: Florestan on June 20, 2018, 07:55:49 AM
I certainly do, but as far as I can remember snyprrr did not "fuck" any member, on the contrary, it's he who's been a constant target of derision and abuse. I might be wrong, though.
That's true, you might be wrong. :-\
8)
Quote from: Florestan on June 20, 2018, 07:55:49 AM
I certainly do, but as far as I can remember snyprrr did not "fuck" any member, on the contrary, it's he who's been a constant target of derision and abuse. I might be wrong, though.
Yes. This sounds right. But maybe I'm wrong.
Ah it looks as though many people are saying similar things at the same time!
Anyway, let's hope that the knife hasn't been stuck in unfairly.
Quote from: Brewski on June 20, 2018, 05:19:21 AM
It's a balancing act, which doesn't always work out neatly. But I would like to think that, as people go, the four of us have common sense -- which to be sure, can also fail now and then.
Who are the four, by the way? You, Gurn Blanston, Que and who?
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php?action=groups;sa=members;group=2
Quote from: Mandryka on June 20, 2018, 08:39:40 AM
Who are the four, by the way? You, Gurn Blanston, Que and who?
(Ah, I see amw beat me to the punch.)
That would be (the other!) Mike (a.k.a., knight66). We are in communication with each other regularly. The fifth mod listed, Maciek, has been too busy to really participate here much.
(PS, I just happened to see this -- we don't see every post on the board, by a long shot. For me, the percentage is probably 2-3%, a fraction of what is posted. So a better way of calling something to our attention is by private message. Just a friendly reminder... :))
--Bruce
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on June 20, 2018, 05:11:33 AM
Thank you. I wonder sometimes, when people complain about the level of moderation in other venues, whether they actually realize how free they are here. Nothing can be seamless, but we do have a go at that.
8)
Freedom of opinion is not quite the same as freedom of speech. There is a way to say things - especially negative or contentious ones - that allows every member to feel safe expressing his/herself. I firmly believe all members have a personal responsibility in maintaining that balance. Nobody here is special, but collectively we all are.
Quote from: André on June 20, 2018, 09:18:33 AM
Freedom of opinion is not quite the same as freedom of speech. There is a way to say things - especially negative or contentious ones - that allows every member to feel safe expressing his/herself. I firmly believe all members have a personal responsibility in maintaining that balance. Nobody here is special, but collectively we all are.
Hear, hear, André! :) And actually the reason there is so little need for any moderating is that the members of this forum take that responsibility seriously, resulting in a friendly atmosphere. Something we should be proud of.
Q
The problem with heavily moderated and/or edited fora is that the process itself creates an expectation that slights will be quickly addressed and fairness will be constantly maintained. Of course, this is impossible, both in terms of responding to running commentary and in terms of editing the historical record. Instead, the forum becomes an excruciating exercise in he-said-she-said navel-gazing, where perceived slights tend to get amplified rather than assuaged (cough-TC-cough).
I think the very-light-touch style of moderation exercised by Gurn et al. is terrific and keeps the focus mainly on-topic. Even the perpetual ability to edit and/or delete one's own prior posts is helpful. I trust them to continue to do their reasonable best, and to continue to make reasonably good decisions going forward.
So thank you guys! I wish I could buy you a beer.
Back to the music....
We've certainly been indulgent of snypsss to a degree which the present outcry about his supposed victimization fails to own 8)
Quote from: Bubbles on June 20, 2018, 09:53:18 AM
So thank you guys! I wish I could buy you a beer.
Back to the music....
We agree, heavy moderation sucks. Been there, done that. :P
Thanks, I could use a beer, one of those nice ones like Stella Artois would be perfect. ;)
Yes, back to the music. 0:)
8)
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 20, 2018, 09:54:01 AM
We've certainly been indulgent of snypsss to a degree which the present outcry about his supposed victimization fails to own 8)
Revisionism is a wonderful thing, innit? ::)
8)
Quotewe don't allow 'fuck Florestan'
Ahhh. I always wondered why his wife wasn't a member.
Quote from: Gurn Blanston on June 20, 2018, 10:11:20 AM
Revisionism is a wonderful thing, innit? ::)
8)
Maybe, under the gaze of an expert, he is not
absolutely a troll. 90% of the time, he does one
damned effective imitation, in the eyes of this amateur.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 20, 2018, 10:48:44 AM
Maybe, under the gaze of an expert, he is not absolutely a troll. 90% of the time, he does one damned effective imitation, in the eyes of this amateur.
Don't sell yourself short,
Karl. Amateurism is not in your repertoire. ;)
8)
Quote from: Ken B on June 20, 2018, 10:34:07 AM
Ahhh. I always wondered why his wife wasn't a member.
And now you know. :D
8)
Quote from: Ken B on June 20, 2018, 10:34:07 AM
Ahhh. I always wondered why his wife wasn't a member.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: Bubbles on June 20, 2018, 09:53:18 AM
So thank you guys! I wish I could buy you a beer.
Back to the music....
Thanks, I'll have a nice hoppy IPA -- your choice -- the bitterer, the better. ;D
Appreciate the comments, too.
--Bruce
The beer appreciation thread.... :D
Q
Quote from: Que on June 20, 2018, 03:09:09 PM
The beer appreciation thread.... :D
Q
I'm all for it!
Quote from: Ken B on June 20, 2018, 10:34:07 AM
Ahhh. I always wondered why his wife wasn't a member.
I did notice similarities of phrasing on more sober posters, or at least giving the impression they are different people.
Bill Cosby sentenced to 3 to 10 years in prison
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 25, 2018, 10:44:55 AM
Bill Cosby sentenced to 3 to 10 years in prison
I wonder if his wife has his member.............