I have only ever heard excerpts from this opera, principally the males parts, and principally Christoff. But my listening has told me firstly, that I need a full recording of the opera, but secondly, that I will not be satisfied unless Christoff is in it.
However, I can't find a recording of it anywhere. Can anyone shed any light on it please?
And failing that, convince me someone else is worth hearing...
Michel,
As far as I know Christoff is not in any available full recording. I suggest Sinopoli, it has an excellent cast, but frankly as I have suggested before, Christoff can spoil you for any other singer in some of his roles. The set is very dramatic, in excellent sound and has no weak links in it.
(http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0001CKR14.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_V45980501_AA240_.jpg)
There is a famous older set on RCA with Leontine Price, the cast is...
Fiorenza Cossotto - Vocals
Gabriel Bacquier - Vocals
Kurt Moll - Vocals
Leontyne Price - Vocals
Michel Senechal - Vocals
Placido Domingo - Vocals
Sherrill Milnes - Vocals
I only know the set by reputation. I assume Kurt Moll is singing the Christoff music, he has an awesome voice.
Mike
Well the bass part in la Forza Del Destino is an important role, but not the most important role, so I wouldn't let the unavailability of a Christoff recording put you off. It is an uneven, but great score and certainly worth investigating.
I wouldn't call any of the available recordings flawless, though there are some very good ones, amongst them the Levine, with Leontyne Price
(http://shop.castleclassics.co.uk/acatalog/74321395022.jpg)
the Muti, with Bergonzi and Arroyo
(http://www.emiclassics.de/images/cover/150/0724356712423.jpg)
And then there is always Callas's Leonora on the Serafin set of 1955, one of her greatest recorded performances.
(http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/250/259204.jpg)
Nicola Rossi-Lemeni is the bass . His tone may be woolly, but he is nevertheless authoratitive. The great scene between Leonora and the Padre Guardiano is superbly done. I believe this recording is also now available at bargain price, both form Naxos and EMI, though here you won't get essays, text and translations.
Mike, why would I care if Sinopoli has a great set? :) My CD player doesn't show images, unfortunately.. :)
The cast of your RCA recommendation, Mike, do not seem to tally up to what is listed here?:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Verdi-Force-Destiny-Giuseppe/dp/B000026M4X/ref=pd_bowtega_3/202-4442586-9880659?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1177496925&sr=1-3
ANd here is what I just read about it, "Sinopoli's eccentric recording has an unorthodox and provocative Leonara in Plowright but little else to commend it"
This is an impressive view of the Naxos recording you mentioned Tsaras:
http://www.classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=5231
As for Serafin and Callas, "the two of them can't offset the inadequate contributions of their colleagues."!
EDIT: CHRIST ALL MIGHTY!!!!!!! See below:!!!!!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Verdi-Forza-Destino-Giorgio-Algorta/dp/B00005BI6C/ref=sr_1_5/202-4442586-9880659?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1177498046&sr=1-5
Michel, In this context, 'set' means set of CDs, not to do with the visual.
As to Sinopoli, he tends to polarise some critics, I think it is a good set.
The Price cast; I got from the source I connected you to for your Gadfly question. Feed in the opera and Price and that is what came up.
I see the one mentioned by Translondon is from Levine. I have in the back of my mind there is another one by Price conducted by Schippers and with Bergonzi.
Mike
Yes, I think the Schipper's is supposed to be better.
Re, Christoff, there must be a recording from Gui somewhere; thats what the excerpts are normally from. Whats happened to it?
Does anyone have any thoughts on the one from Rome, shown above?
Quote from: knight on April 25, 2007, 02:06:56 AM
There is a famous older set on RCA with Leontine Price, the cast is...
Fiorenza Cossotto - Vocals
Gabriel Bacquier - Vocals
Kurt Moll - Vocals
Leontyne Price - Vocals
Michel Senechal - Vocals
Placido Domingo - Vocals
Sherrill Milnes - Vocals
I only know the set by reputation. I assume Kurt Moll is singing the Christoff music, he has an awesome voice.
Actually, Moll sings the brief role of the Marquis of Calatrava, the heroine's father, who gets killed in the first act. The Christoff role (Padre Guardiano) is sung by Bonaldo Giaiotti in that recording.
I like that RCA recording, but even better, I think, is Lamberto Gardelli's EMI version with Arroyo, Bergonzi, Cappuccilli, Raimond, as Padre Guardiano, and Geraint Evans.
There's a DVD available with Christoff. I've never seen it, but everyone who has seems to rave about it. It's black & white, mono, and probably makes all the standard cuts (which in this act can include an entire scene, but it's not a scene Christoff would be in. Both of the other recordings I mentioned are uncut), but supposedly the singing makes up for all that:
http://www.amazon.com/Verdi-Bastianini-Christoff-Dominguez-Molinari-Pradelli/dp/B00009MEF5/ref=sr_1_2/102-9778813-5105730?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1177501437&sr=8-2 (http://www.amazon.com/Verdi-Bastianini-Christoff-Dominguez-Molinari-Pradelli/dp/B00009MEF5/ref=sr_1_2/102-9778813-5105730?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1177501437&sr=8-2)
Edit: I see the a CD version of that same performance:
http://www.amazon.com/Verdi-Forza-del-Destino-Giuseppe/dp/B00005BI6C/ref=sr_1_7/102-9778813-5105730?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1177501437&sr=8-7 (http://www.amazon.com/Verdi-Forza-del-Destino-Giuseppe/dp/B00005BI6C/ref=sr_1_7/102-9778813-5105730?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1177501437&sr=8-7)
My favorite version is perhaps, the one conducted by Muti, with Domingo and Freni. Muti is very dramatic and dynamic, Domingo and Freni are good (but not exceptional) and Bruscantini is a perfect Melitone.
The old version conducted by Mollinari-Pradelli, had the very touching Tebaldi and the best Guardiano, Siepi. But Del Monaco was not very convincing, too "verist", sometimes almost brutal.
Since I never liked the voice of Richad Tucker (he seems to sing with his nose), I am not a fan of the Callas version. Even Callas is not, here, at her best.
Another good version, very well conducted by Previtali, had the great Milanova, an almost fragile Di Stefano and Warren (I think that years later he died on stage singing this opera).
And let's not forget the sublime excerpts recorded by Ponselle, Martinelli, De Luca and Pinza. Martinelli, in special, gives a lesson of style never approached.
Great posts guys, thankyou.
Interesting to hear all the other thoughts on the other recordings; its making me want to splash out now.
Only I will restrain myself and re-focus: Should I get that Christoff or not? I suppose I should then report back. I just don't want it to be a horrendous sound recording (not that I mind historic ones, Infact, I love them) as I don't know the label..Hardy Classic?
Quote from: val on April 25, 2007, 04:23:56 AM
Since I never liked the voice of Richad Tucker (he seems to sing with his nose), I am not a fan of the Callas version. Even Callas is not, here, at her best.
I do not agree that Callas is not at her best. This is actually one of her very best studio performances (I say studio, because she was always better caught live). After a detailed and extremely favourable appraisal of Callas's Leonora, this is what London Green has to say in
The Metroplitan Guide to Recorded OperaThere are, it should be said, a few wobbly top notes, but generally the voice is rich, steady and infinitely responsive...The recording is essential for the work of Callas, and especially worth while for the contributions of Serafin and Rossi-LemeniAs for Tucker, my main problem with him is that he compensates for not being Italian, bi aspirating and sobbing his way through the music. His vocal production is actually pretty sound. Tagliabue is the main problem - way past his best. Elena Nicolai is ok as Preziosilla, though I think Agnes Baltsa is probably the only singer to make any sense of this role, but we do have an excellent Melitone in the hands of Fernando Corena. At Naxos price it's an absolute bargain.
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on April 25, 2007, 02:16:32 AM
Well the bass part in la Forza Del Destino is an important role, but not the most important role, so I wouldn't let the unavailability of a Christoff recording put you off. It is an uneven, but great score and certainly worth investigating.
I wouldn't call any of the available recordings flawless, though there are some very good ones, amongst them the Levine, with Leontyne Price
(http://shop.castleclassics.co.uk/acatalog/74321395022.jpg)
Personally I can't not imagine La Forza del Destino without Leontyne Price, the recording Tsaraslondon recommends is the one I have and absolutely love. I second his recommendation.
marvin
Michel, The conductor on the Christoff that you found, Molinari-Pradelli was excellent. He deserved more acclaim and exposure than he ever got. There is no full cast of singers, but the ones listed are first rate. The same conductor did a long unavailable Rigoletto with Capecchi, I had it about 30 years ago and loved it to death.
Might be worth a flyer, but as to the sound, who knows?
Thanks guys for correcting my assumption on what I assume is the Schippers or Levine. Anyway....you have recommended a wealth of versions. Somehow, I have never taken to this opera and uniquely for Verdi, I only have one version of it. I feel the structure of the piece is disjointed.
Mike
Quote from: knight on April 25, 2007, 07:44:04 AM
I feel the structure of the piece is disjointed.
Thats a given isn't it? A sprawling mess is a phrase I see banded about.
I think I am going to pee into the wind and get it, though Mike.
In which case I hope you do not get soaked!
GO MICHEL GO MICHEL GO MICHEL GO MICHEL GO MICHEL
Mike
Quote from: knight on April 25, 2007, 07:59:40 AM
In which case I hope you do not get soaked!
GO MICHEL GO MICHEL GO MICHEL GO MICHEL GO MICHEL
Mike
HAHAHA!
Quote from: knight on April 25, 2007, 07:44:04 AM
Molinari-Pradelli was excellent. He deserved more acclaim and exposure than he ever got.
Did you ever sing for Molinari-Pradelli?
Over the years, I saw about two dozen performances of his at the Met.
Neither singers, nor orchestra seemed to be even infinitesimally inspired under his baton. He offered "readings", not performances. Everybody was on their own. He offered very little in the way of leadership or direction.
He had several other compadres at the Met that were in the same class as he.
Nello Santi and Fausto Cleva, spring to mind. Stick wavers for sure. But conductors? No way!
ughhh I couldnt even get through the libretto, it was soo terrible...
Nello Santi and Fausto Cleva...it is odd how varied the opinions can be. Both of these have perfectly respectable, if no wow factor, reputations in Europe and they together with Molinari-Predelli left a legacy of good recordings.
Mike
QuoteIago
Over the years, I saw about two dozen performances of his at the Met.
Neither singers, nor orchestra seemed to be even infinitesimally inspired under his baton. He offered "readings", not performances. Everybody was on their own. He offered very little in the way of leadership or direction.
He had several other compadres at the Met that were in the same class as he.
Nello Santi and Fausto Cleva, spring to mind. Stick wavers for sure. But conductors? No way!
I have exactly the same opinion.
Quote from: knight on April 25, 2007, 09:36:39 AM
Nello Santi and Fausto Cleva...it is odd how varied the opinions can be. Both of these have perfectly respectable, if no wow factor, reputations in Europe and they together with Molinari-Predelli left a legacy of good recordings.
Mike
I do not know much about Cleva but do know that Santi could be inspired on occasion and produce a 'phone-in contribution on others.
His memorial must be the Wolf-Ferrari disc he made for Decca way back and that has its 'eccentric' moments as I remember.
As for 'La Forza' nobody has mentioned the first complete set under Gardelli with Bergonzi, Arroyo, Cappuccilli, Geraint Evans and Raimondi on EMI recorded in London with an on-form RPO.
Quote from: Wendell_E on April 25, 2007, 03:49:12 AM
I like that RCA recording, but even better, I think, is Lamberto Gardelli's EMI version with Arroyo, Bergonzi, Cappuccilli, Raimond, as Padre Guardiano, and Geraint Evans.
Hector, It was mentioned, but good to see it getting another plug. Gardelli was an excellent Verdi conductor. I have never hared much by Arroyo, is she good, is the voice disctinctive? She seemed to be in the public eye for quite a short time.
Mike
Quote from: Hector on April 27, 2007, 04:02:10 AM
As for 'La Forza' nobody has mentioned the first complete set under Gardelli with Bergonzi, Arroyo, Cappuccilli, Geraint Evans and Raimondi on EMI recorded in London with an on-form RPO.
Tsaraslondon did actually, even showed a pic, but he got the conductor wrong.
I'm with Knight. I like Siinopoli's Forza. I don't own it yet but a friend does and I've heard it several times. JPC has it at an excellent price, 23 Euro. It's in my shopping cart now, just waiting for the end of the month and fresh funds.
What I do have currently is Muti/Freni/Domingo/Plishka (Guardiano) and Molinari-Pradelli/Tebaldi/del Monaco/Siepi. Neither M-P nor del Monaco are subtle but this is a pretty thrilling ride if you leave your brain at home. Tebaldi...sigh, just exquisite.
The Muti recording...I've never been happy with it: too fast (I really appreciate the way Sinopoli takes his time) and the cast is nothing to write home about...save Domingo. He's exceptional here.
Sarge
Quote from: knight on April 27, 2007, 04:59:05 AM
Hector, It was mentioned, but good to see it getting another plug. Gardelli was an excellent Verdi conductor. I have never hared much by Arroyo, is she good, is the voice disctinctive? She seemed to be in the public eye for quite a short time.
Mike
She takes a time to warm up but demonstrates that she has a powerful Verdi voice. Love her.
Gardelli was the perfect opera conductor in that he led but did not impose. His subtle conducting of the early Verdi operas he recorded for Philips are a consistent joy.
I, actually, went along with a friend, and employee of EMI, to buy the 4LP set at the staff shop on the EMI complex in Hayes many years ago :( at 25% discount! :D
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 27, 2007, 05:14:40 AM
Tsaraslondon did actually, even showed a pic, but he got the conductor wrong..
Sarge
Sorry. Must have been thinking of the Muti
Un Ballo in Maschera, which also has Martina Arroyo in it.
Surprised nobody else seems to like the Callas recording.
And surprised there are so many votes for the Sinopoli. To my ears, he does exactly the opposite of Gardelli (ie imposes himself all over the music), Carreras sounds tired and well past his best, Plowright is out of sorts and no match for her excellent Leonora on the Giulini
il Trovatore, Bruson is a dull Carlo and Burchaladze lacks the authority for Padre Guardiano. Baltsa is the only saving grace, but nobody buys a recording of
Forza on the strength of its Preziosilla.
I'd say any of the other recordings mentioned so far were a better bet.
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on April 27, 2007, 10:15:36 AM
Sorry. Must have been thinking of the Muti Un Ballo in Maschera, which also has Martina Arroyo in it.
Surprised nobody else seems to like the Callas recording.
And surprised there are so many votes for the Sinopoli. To my ears, he does exactly the opposite of Gardelli (ie imposes himself all over the music), Carreras sounds tired and well past his best, Plowright is out of sorts and no match for her excellent Leonora on the Giulini il Trovatore, Bruson is a dull Carlo and Burchaladze lacks the authority for Padre Guardiano. Baltsa is the only saving grace, but nobody buys a recording of Forza on the strength of its Preziosilla.
I'd say any of the other recordings mentioned so far were a better bet.
Spot on.
Arguably, the weakness of the Gardelli is the Preziosilla!
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on April 27, 2007, 10:15:36 AM
And surprised there are so many votes for the Sinopoli. To my ears, he does exactly the opposite of Gardelli (ie imposes himself all over the music)
Which is the very reason I like Sinopoli. What I want is a conductor who has something individual to say about the music and participates interpretively as much as his singers. Finding the best version of an opera is much more than choosing who sings best (although I have no serious complaints about this cast). It's a whole experience which includes the orchestra and the conductor too. For my taste Sinopoli is one of the great conductors of Verdi.
Sarge
Sarge, I think it depends on the piece. I thought his Macbeth was too full of gear changes, but his Salome was exactly right. It depended sometimes how much he wanted to maul things about. But we are at one over Forza.
Mike
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on April 30, 2007, 06:59:48 AM
Which is the very reason I like Sinopoli. What I want is a conductor who has something individual to say about the music and participates interpretively as much as his singers. Finding the best version of an opera is much more than choosing who sings best (although I have no serious complaints about this cast). It's a whole experience which includes the orchestra and the conductor too. For my taste Sinopoli is one of the great conductors of Verdi.
Sarge
Well I don't like mere accompanists - and Gardelli is certainly not just an accompanist. And I think that the great Italian conductors of opera do have something to say - amongst them Giulini, De Sabata, Serafin and Muti. But they do seem to let the music flow in a much more natural way.
I remember going to a performance of the Verdi Requiem conducted by Sinopoli. It was an extremely interesting experience. I heard things in the orchestration and the work that I had never really heard before, but I was totally unmoved by the performance. On the other hand, I once heard Gardelli conduct it (deputising for an indisposed Giulini) and the performance was absolutely thrilling and incredibly moving. Oddly enough I can't remember who the singers were on either occasion. Now I am not saying I didn't find Sinopoli's reading interesting, but it was a cerebral rather than an emotional experience. It was as if he had dissected the score to show us it's workings, but in so doing, had taken the heart out of it. I often feel the same way about Boulez as a conductor.
Quote from: knight on April 30, 2007, 07:05:25 AM
Sarge, I think it depends on the piece. I thought his Macbeth was too full of gear changes, but his Salome was exactly right. It depended sometimes how much he wanted to maul things about. But we are at one over Forza.
Mike
Perhaps that was the problem with a Sinopoli conducted performance and recording.
I prefer him in opera and his 'Salome' is a highpoint but he would maul the Elgar symphonies and wondered why he got such corruscatingly bad reviews from the British press to the extent that he said that if he got them again he would never conduct them. Wise man.
I still think that Gardelli and Muti are better than him in Forza and it might be that the casts are better and more inspirational, if you get my drift.
Quote from: Hector on May 01, 2007, 06:44:14 AM
I prefer him in opera and his 'Salome' is a highpoint but he would maul the Elgar symphonies and wondered why he got such corruscatingly bad reviews from the British press to the extent that he said that if he got them again he would never conduct them. Wise man.
I rather like Sinopoli's recording of Elgar's 2nd. Slow, bloated, pompous and stuffy, full of Victorian swagger and some leaden tempi, it is everything how an Elgar symphony should be. Also like his
Enigma Variations.
I went for the Christoff on the weird label...watch this space. Although I don't quite know what I am going to compared it to...
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 01, 2007, 06:52:31 AM
I rather like Sinopoli's recording of Elgar's 2nd. Slow, bloated, pompous and stuffy, full of Victorian swagger and some leaden tempi, it is everything how an Elgar symphony should be. Also like his Enigma Variations.
Oh, do give over with the stereotypical off-hand opinions.
Mike
Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 01, 2007, 06:52:31 AM
I rather like Sinopoli's recording of Elgar's 2nd. Slow, bloated, pompous and stuffy, full of Victorian swagger and some leaden tempi, it is everything how an Elgar symphony should be. Also like his Enigma Variations.
No, it is exactly how YOU would want an Elgar symphony to be.
Ideal for those that hate Elgar.
The irony, that seems to have escaped you completely, is that Sinopoli loved these works. Loved them to death, in fact! :-[
Quote from: Hector on May 02, 2007, 06:35:38 AM
No, it is exactly how YOU would want an Elgar symphony to be.
Ideal for those that hate Elgar.
The irony, that seems to have escaped you completely, is that Sinopoli loved these works. Loved them to death, in fact! :-[
Oh I am sure he loved them all right. He loved them so much he milked #2 to 65 minutes, or about as long as Bruckner's 7th. I have all of Sinopoli's Elgar recordings because nobody does Elgar like him.
Quote from: Hector on May 01, 2007, 06:44:14 AM
...but he would maul the Elgar symphonies and wondered why he got such corruscatingly bad reviews from the British press to the extent that he said that if he got them again he would never conduct them. Wise man.
DISCLAIMER: THE FOLLOWING IS GROSS GENERALIZATION
English critics are very possessive of their Elgar. Unless a foreign conductor or soloist slavishly imitates a beloved Englishman, preferably Elgar himself, they are going to be drawn and quartered by the press. Hilary Hahns's Elgar is just the latest example of the English damning a truly great performance simply because it isn't Menhuin or Kennedy. Another infamous example: Bernstein's Nimrod.
In each case they brought something wonderfully new to Elgar's music, making us hear it as if for the first time. You'd think the English would appreciate the "foreign" interest in their sacred music instead of reacting like jealous Guardians of the Tradition.
Not surprisingly, Sinopoli's is my favorite version of the Second (I also own Solti, Haitink, Boult and Tate). It's an absolutely searing account and proves, to me anyway, that it's one of the twentieth century's greatest symphonies, one that should be heard everywhere. It's a grand Romantic symphony, Hector: it can take a good mauling, and is all the better for it ;D
Sarge
Quote from: knight on April 30, 2007, 07:05:25 AM
Sarge, I think it depends on the piece. I thought his Macbeth was too full of gear changes, but his Salome was exactly right. It depended sometimes how much he wanted to maul things about. But we are at one over Forza.
Mike
There's constant debate in our house over which Mabeth to play: Mrs. Rock loves Abbado; I'm a Sinopoli man. I refuse to concede her taste is better than mine ;D
Sarge
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on April 30, 2007, 12:09:36 PM
Well I don't like mere accompanists - and Gardelli is certainly not just an accompanist. And I think that the great Italian conductors of opera do have something to say - amongst them Giulini, De Sabata, Serafin and Muti. But they do seem to let the music flow in a much more natural way.
I remember going to a performance of the Verdi Requiem conducted by Sinopoli. It was an extremely interesting experience. I heard things in the orchestration and the work that I had never really heard before, but I was totally unmoved by the performance. On the other hand, I once heard Gardelli conduct it (deputising for an indisposed Giulini) and the performance was absolutely thrilling and incredibly moving. Oddly enough I can't remember who the singers were on either occasion. Now I am not saying I didn't find Sinopoli's reading interesting, but it was a cerebral rather than an emotional experience. It was as if he had dissected the score to show us it's workings, but in so doing, had taken the heart out of it. I often feel the same way about Boulez as a conductor.
I understand your point and I can't dispute it. It's one of the most difficult things to comprehend and impossible to explain: why one person is moved by a performance that leaves another shrugging his shoulders and scratching his head, wondering what all the commotion was about. Your description of a typical Sinopoli performance is spot on...it's what I often here. But very often that works for me (I'm a musical layman; I judge music first and foremost by the emotional impact it has on me). Sometimes it doesn't. I've never warmed to Sinopoli's Mahler, for example, but love his Strauss, Puccini, and Verdi...or rather, I have a very strong, positive emotional reaction to it that I love.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 02, 2007, 10:13:39 AM
There's constant debate in our house over which Mabeth to play: Mrs. Rock loves Abbado; I'm a Sinopoli man. I refuse to concede her taste is better than mine ;D
Sarge
I kept that Sinopoli for years, the only bit I listened to often was the sleepwalking scene, very affecting and bizare all at once.
As to Elgar, I don't think the Solti was in the clear traditional mainstream, but I seem to remember it got a warm reception.
Mike
Quote from: knight on May 02, 2007, 11:21:56 AM
I kept that Sinopoli for years, the only bit I listened to often was the sleepwalking scene, very affecting and bizare all at once.
As to Elgar, I don't think the Solti was in the clear traditional mainstream, but I seem to remember it got a warm reception.
Mike
I believe Solti studied Elgar's recordings first before he recorded the symphonies and the English critics liked them because he sped through them just like Elgar did! The English claim they love their Elgar..I don't know. They seem to want it over with as quickly as possible ;D Colin Davis was also beaten up pretty badly a few years ago for his slow-paced Elgar.
Sarge
Quote from: knight on May 02, 2007, 11:21:56 AM
I kept that Sinopoli for years, the only bit I listened to often was the sleepwalking scene, very affecting and bizare all at once.
As to Elgar, I don't think the Solti was in the clear traditional mainstream, but I seem to remember it got a warm reception.
Mike
And I seem to remember that Monteux's
Enigma was for many years a top recommendation, as was Karajan's Vienna Phil
The Planets. In fact I seem to remember the British critics warming to the fact that two foreign conductors had brought something different and valid to the works. Both performances still stand up very well now.
Quote from: Tsaraslondon on May 02, 2007, 12:02:43 PM
And I seem to remember that Monteux's Enigma was for many years a top recommendation...
Quote from: knight on May 02, 2007, 11:21:56 AM
As to Elgar, I don't think the Solti was in the clear traditional mainstream, but I seem to remember it got a warm reception.
Before Solti recorded the First he made a searching study of Elgar's own 78 recording....[and it has] the same rich, committed qualities that mark the Elgar performance--Penguin
Solti's incandescent performance of the Second is modeled closely on Elgar's surprisingly clipped and urgent reading--Penguin
About Monteux's Enigma: Nimrod is slower than usual but I don't know how much slower, not into Bernstein territory I bet; but anyway,
Differences from traditional tempi elsewhere are marginal--Penguin
Karajan's Planets, and Jochum's too,
were well received but I'd argue there's nothing radical about their performances; nothing that would alarm the reactionary critics.
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on May 02, 2007, 01:40:19 PM
Before Solti recorded the First he made a searching study of Elgar's own 78 recording....[and it has] the same rich, committed qualities that mark the Elgar performance--Penguin
Solti's incandescent performance of the Second is modeled closely on Elgar's surprisingly clipped and urgent reading--Penguin
About Monteux's Enigma: Nimrod is slower than usual but I don't know how much slower, not into Bernstein territory I bet; but anyway, Differences from traditional tempi elsewhere are marginal--Penguin
Karajan's Planets, and Jochum's too, were well received but I'd argue there's nothing radical about their performances; nothing that would alarm the reactionary critics.
Sarge
These 'Penguin Record Guide' views are so out of date.
It is, now, recognised that Solti failed to provide anything other than, at best, a run-through, at worse, a bland misunderstanding of Elgar's recording and score. Ugh, preserve me.
Sinopoli has no conception of the ebb and flow in these works.
Haitink is far and away preferable but it is either Boult or Andrew Davis that comes close to ideal in the 2nd.
Now tell me you do not like either and I'll tell you that it is not Elgar that you like but some Brucknerian, overblown concept of the composer.
A view that Monteux, an unlikely Elgar advocate if there ever was one, was frre of.
What am I doing arguing Elgar performing traditions on a Verdi thread?
Referring back to the Sinopoli Macbeth and his discs with Zampieri as Lady M. The discs are about to be reissued and here is their stage performance of the sleepwalking scene from YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVl3vm-UCJU
I knew Lady M was evil....but THIS evil?!!!.....OFELIA HRISTOVA more the voice of a banshee rather than a she-devil, and there is yards of this woman on YouTube, her agent must submit the stuff. Stick to the end, riveting. I have not even mentioned the acting or staging.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVeMM-ctyck&mode=related&search=
Actually I have popped back having also watched her sing
Abigaille aria e cabaletta-Nabucco, a great improvement, but what probably lead to the instability in Macbeth.
Mike
Just read through this thread after having watched "La forza del destino" on telly last night* (first encounter with the opera, I think - might have seen it 20 years back as a high-schooler, but I'm not quite sure what Verdi operas beyond "Falstaff" I saw then - not "Aida" or "La Traviata" for sure though). Anyways ... I have some of the recordings mentioned here waiting to be explored, but the first one I've just put on right now is the 1953 one by Mitropoulos (Tebaldi, Del Monaco and Siepi among the cast, Aldo Protti is singing Don Carlo - don't know him at all yet). What's the verdict on Mitropoulos' "Forza" then? He wasn't mentioned in this thread at all yet, I think (sorry if I didn't catch any reference or hint). Obviously, sound isn't perfect, but it's surely good enough to get a vivid impression of Tebaldi and Del Monaco ... now I'm eagerly awaiting for Siepi to show up!
*) EDIT: with a riveting Anja Harteros plus Jonas Kaufmann, Ludovic Tézier and a very good Vitalij Kowaljow in the two bass parts (father/Padre Guardiano)
Quote from: king ubu on August 01, 2014, 03:06:19 AM
What's the verdict on Mitropoulos' "Forza" then?
I like it a lot. Sound is bit rough and the audience is rowdy but it's a very exciting performance. Mitropoulos leads with all the fire and brimstone Molinari-Pradelli doesn't provide on roughly contemporaneous Decca studio recording with similar cast, and Tebaldi and Del Monaco were really on that evening, her with more passion he with more nuance (as he usually was live). Proti is no match for Bastianini, but that is probably the only weaker link.
Thanks, reassuring indeed as my first impression is very positive! And Siepi is indeed great, too!
There's a later recording by Mitropoulos - are you (or anyone) familiar with both, how do they compare?