What is Beauty?
Quote from: Saul on March 18, 2008, 03:36:27 PM
What is Beauty?
Mrs. Rock(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/asheville/mrs%20rock%2004.jpg)
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 18, 2008, 03:42:00 PM
Mrs. Rock
Sarge, that is a really gorgeous photo.
Didn't Michel or somebody else already make this thread? Most of the responses photos of half-naked chicks, IIRC. ::)
(http://www.harmonyclub.co.uk/mediac/400_0/media/DIR_30054/The~Millionairess~Sophia~Loren.jpg)
Sophia really was beautiful, wasn't she?
Beauty is truth, and truth beauty etc. etc.
And one composer who would subscribe to that 100% - a composer who thought the distinction between 'beautiful' and 'ugly' was nonsensical - was Janacek:
(http://www.brno.cz/galerie/obrazky/l1054116064.jpg)
Beautiful, yes?
How childish to respond with photos of beautiful women.
Did I ask, which lady is beautiful?
But some people think only along these terms...
Quote from: Saul on March 18, 2008, 03:36:27 PM
What is Beauty?
POETRY
And it was at that age... poetry arrived
in search of me. I don't know, I don't know where
it came from, from winter or a river
I don't know how or when,
no, they weren't voices, they were not
words, nor silence,
but from a street it called me,
from the branches of the night,
abruptly from all the others,
among raging fires
or returning alone,
there it was, without a face,
and it touched me.
I didn't know what to say, my mouth
had no way
with names,
my eyes were blind,
my soul,
fever or forgotten wings,
and I made my own way,
deciphering
that fire,
and I wrote the first faint line,
faint, without substance, pure
nonsense,
pure wisdom
of one who knows nothing,
and suddenly I saw
the heavens
unfastened
and open,
planets,
palpitating plantations,
the darkness perforated,
riddled
with arrows, fire and flowers,
the overpowering night, the universe.
And I, tiny being,
drunk with the great starry void,
likeness, image of
mystery,
felt myself a pure part
of the abyss,
I wheeled with the stars.
My heart broke loose with the wind.
~ Pablo Neruda (1904-1973)
translated by Alastair Reid
Quote from: Saul on March 18, 2008, 04:07:16 PM
How childish to respond with photos of beautiful women.
Did I ask, which lady is beautiful?
But some people think only along these terms...
There are no religions, no revelations; there are women. Voznesensky "Antiworlds"
Saul, we understand you have this warped, third-world, conservative view that women should be ugly, kept covered and hidden away in the nursery and kitchen, but some of us here are actually
normal and find the female of our species to be the very definition of beauty...not just beauty, but the definition of all that's good, wonderful and worth living for in this world.
Sarge
Quote from: Saul on March 18, 2008, 04:07:16 PM
But some people think only along these terms...
Sorry, Saul, most of us can't help it.
Though I do think the pictures posted are pretty good representations. ???
EDIT - Sarge said exactly what I tried to convey. Thanks! ;D
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 18, 2008, 03:42:00 PM
Mrs. Rock
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/asheville/mrs%20rock%2004.jpg)
WOW!
Ms. Haffner
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 18, 2008, 04:21:20 PM
There are no religions, no revelations; there are women.
Voznesensky "Antiworlds"
Saul, we understand you have this warped, third-world, conservative view that women should be ugly, kept covered and hidden away in the nursery and kitchen, but some of us here are actually normal and find the female of our species to be the very definition of beauty...not just beauty, but the definition of all that's good, wonderful and worth living for in this world.
Sarge
(http://www.virginmedia.com/microsites/movies/slideshow/top-ten-cross-dressing-characters/img_3.jpg)
Listen to what Sarge says, OK?
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 18, 2008, 04:21:20 PM
but some of us here are actually normal
Being a sycophant to women isn't exactly normal either. Our culture is substituting one extreme for the other.
That said, i'd wager that women's beauty is behind the basic inspiration for all art, along side with nature. Indeed, with so many women leaning towards the masculine or their often vulgar promiscuity and the separation from nature caused by technological urbanization it should be no wonder why art is in such an horrid state today.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 18, 2008, 04:21:20 PM
There are no religions, no revelations; there are women.
Voznesensky "Antiworlds"
Saul, we understand you have this warped, third-world, conservative view that women should be ugly, kept covered and hidden away in the nursery and kitchen, but some of us here are actually normal and find the female of our species to be the very definition of beauty...not just beauty, but the definition of all that's good, wonderful and worth living for in this world.
Sarge
No, its you that has this view, thinking that women are men's "Play thing" that was created just so men have "fun".
The ancient kings used to think this way, and you are very similar to them in this sense.
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on March 18, 2008, 04:33:41 PM
Being a sycophant to women isn't exactly normal either. Our culture is substituting one extreme for the other.
That said, i'd wager that women's beauty is behind the basic inspiration for all art, along side with nature. Indeed, with so many women leaning towards the masculine or their often vulgar promiscuity and the separation from nature caused by technological urbanization it should be no wonder why art is in such an horrid state today.
I think that everyone knows and agrees that women are beautiful but they are not the definition of beauty.
Quote from: Saul on March 18, 2008, 04:07:16 PM
How childish to respond with photos of beautiful women.
If being with a woman like this makes me a child ...
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb31/idowords/2005-09-09-190018.jpg)
... then pass the candy. ;)
Quote from: Mark on March 18, 2008, 04:41:54 PM
If being with a woman like this makes me a child ...
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb31/idowords/2005-09-09-190018.jpg)
... then pass the candy. ;)
YOW!
I know, I know, Andy. If you want her fan mail address it's ... ;D
And Saul, yes, you're right that many men treat women as playthings. But not all men. Please don't tar us all with the same brush. And also, don't ask such an open-ended question in your OP if you're not prepared to consider all the responses. You didn't ask, 'What's the definition of beauty?' You asked only, 'What is beauty?' That, my friend, will always be in the eye of the beholder. Please try to remember that - maybe then you'd get treated with a bit more respct around here.
Quote from: Mark on March 18, 2008, 04:41:54 PM
If being with a woman like this makes me a child ...
... then pass the candy. ;)
You really think its mature to answer this question with a photo of a woman?
I asked to describe with words what beauty means... kinda more of a philosophical discussion...
But some people think only about physical things when they hear the word beauty, even though beauty itself doesn't have to be physical per say. Did you ever get a smile from your daughter? wasn't the feeling generated from the smile , or the event itself , a beautiful thing?
Must your daughter be a beauty queen so her smiling be considered as beautiful?
Here is a beautiful explanation of what beauty means according to Jews:
http://www.ou.org/publications/ja/5758/spring98/beauty.htm
I am sick to death of people asking broad, supposedly philosophical questions like "What is beauty?" "What is Man?" "What is truth?" without seriously intending to investigate the reasons for our perception of these foundations of our thought. Beauty, truth, love, man, — standing alone, mean absolutely nothing.
Quote from: Mark on March 18, 2008, 04:49:08 PM
That, my friend, will always be in the eye of the beholder.
I think i may have a bit of a problem with that. Beholders come in different shapes and sizes and some of them are pretty rotten inside.
I like to believe in a universal ideal of beauty, the nature of which, however, will always remain elusive.
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on March 18, 2008, 05:00:15 PM
Beholders come in different shapes and sizes and some of them are pretty rotten inside.
This is a very interesting point.
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on March 18, 2008, 05:00:15 PM
I think i may have a bit of a problem with that. Beholders come in different shapes and sizes and some of them are pretty rotten inside.
You'll always have that problem ... unless you know how to change those rotten beholders.
Dude, I didn't realize classical music lovers got all the most gorgeous ladies!
*waits for his* 0:)
Quote from: Saul on March 18, 2008, 04:57:03 PM
Here is a beautiful explanation of what beauty means according to Jews:
http://www.ou.org/publications/ja/5758/spring98/beauty.htm
::)
You're soooooooooooooooooo transparent. Everything comes back to Jewishness with you, doesn't it? It's pathetic.
Yes, beauty takes many forms - the form of a woman being just one of these, if you're a red-blooded, hetrosexual male. Music contains beauty, so do words when skillfully crafted. Beauty can mean a million things and more - and no one, Saul, including you and the rest of the Jewish fraternity, has a monopoly on this.
Once again, don't start an open-ended discussion as a cover for religious propaganda. It's wonderful that you like being a Jew. But then, you've no doubt been indoctrinated since the day you were born. How can things be otherwise?
Quote from: Mark on March 18, 2008, 05:07:02 PM
::)
You're soooooooooooooooooo transparent. Everything comes back to Jewishness with you, doesn't it? It's pathetic.
Yes, beauty takes many forms - the form of a woman being just one of these, if you're a red-blooded, hetrosexual male. Music contains beauty, so do words when skillfully crafted. Beauty can mean a million things and more - and no one, Saul, including you and the rest of the Jewish fraternity, has a monopoly on this.
Once again, don't start an open-ended discussion as a cover for religious propaganda. It's wonderful that you like being a Jew. But then, you've no doubt been indoctrinated since the day you were born. How can things be otherwise?
What are you talking about?
I am not allowed to give a philosophical answer from my own religion about my own question?
You make sense?
Quote from: Saul on March 18, 2008, 04:57:03 PM
You really think its mature to answer this question with a photo of a woman?
Well,
Haffner, Sarge &
Mark didn't just put up "a photo of a woman" but specifically with women they love and who love them. Love adds that extra dimension which is what makes them more than JUST a pretty face. Its not like they're just putting up porn-- its not just ANY woman.
Quote from: Saul on March 18, 2008, 05:10:23 PM
I am not allowed to give a philosophical answer from my own religion about my own question?
Certainly, but its getting really old & its starting to border on self-parody.
Quote from: Saul on March 18, 2008, 05:10:23 PM
What are you talking about?
I am not allowed to give a philosophical answer from my own religion about my own question?
You make sense?
Saul, I'm done with your passive-aggressive responses whenever you're challenged about your incessant religious agenda. If I could ban your ass outta here, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Not because I'm a fan of censorship, but because you make a mockery of the purpose of a classical music forum by treating it as your own personal soapbox, from the top of which you preach your faith like you think
that's why this place exists. So, as I can't ban you, I'll chuck myself out instead.
Quote from: Mark on March 18, 2008, 05:15:33 PM
Saul, I'm done with your passive-aggressive responses whenever you're challenged about your incessant religious agenda. If I could ban your ass outta here, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Not because I'm a fan of censorship, but because you make a mockery of the purpose of a classical music forum by treating it as your own personal soapbox, from the top of which you preach your faith like you think that's why this place exists. So, as I can't ban you, I'll chuck myself out instead.
Mark , don't check out. I don't know why
Saul has to seem to push his religious views at times. At other times, he comes across as an intelligent, thoughtful poster. Maybe he just doesn't like you or something, but you're certainly well liked by many others here...including me.
Mark! You know that was the wrong thing to do. :( You should know not to punish yourself and your friends, including Haffner and me, for paying attention to the irritating practices of someone else. You do yourself injustice, my friend, and you let the Sauls of the forum win their battle to control the board's tenor. I hope that you will return soon and rebuild your formidable post count, once your head has cleared a little bit. We'll miss you a great deal otherwise.
I cant understand why he was angry.
I asked what is beauty, some people answered with photographs of their girlfriends, and I gave a link explaining what Beauty means according to my beliefs. No one had to read that link, I didn't ask anyone to read it, I just provided the link. Why is it that people get irritated from this? Why would anyone bother or care about it? This is my view! and I like to point my views through a religious medium many times. No one has to agree with me, and no one has to believe in what I write, no one has to open the links I post , no one has to read my posts, But, I think that everyone has the right to post their thoughts and ideas whatever they may be. Someone wants to post a photograph of a beautiful woman and that should make me want to ban them from the site, or leave the site myself?
So I am a religious person who connects my faith to many topics in this board, why is this so not acceptable? Would I care if a Catholic or a Baptist do the same?
NOT AT ALL...but I just don't get why people are so negative about this so much...
Quote from: just josh on March 18, 2008, 05:13:24 PM
Well, Haffner, Sarge & Mark didn't just put up "a photo of a woman" but specifically with women they love and who love them. Love adds that extra dimension which is what makes them more than JUST a pretty face. Its not like they're just putting up porn-- its not just ANY woman.
Whos wife is Sophia?
Quote from: just josh on March 18, 2008, 05:15:13 PM
Certainly, but its getting really old & its starting to border on self-parody.
That's your opinion...
For example , my opinion about your opinion is that its pointless...
Would that stop you from posting in the future just because Saul thinks that this particular opinion of yours is pointless?
Quote from: Saul on March 18, 2008, 03:36:27 PMWhat is Beauty?
This, my friend, is what beauty is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw_QMIgkbyY
Quote from: Operahaven on March 18, 2008, 05:49:05 PM
This, my friend, is what beauty is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw_QMIgkbyY
It is indeed beautiful, but I think it doesnt explain what beauty is. It may be an example of a beautiful thing, but its not what beauty is.
Quote from: Saul on March 18, 2008, 03:36:27 PM
What is Beauty?
Think of all the uninspired lazy threads I could come up with in the same spirit!
"What is Beethoven?"
"What is sublime?"
"What is wubba wubba?"
"What is love? Baby don't hurt me no more..."
It just goes on and on. ::)
Quote from: Saul on March 18, 2008, 05:44:17 PM
That's your opinion...
For example , my opinion about your opinion is that its pointless...
Would that stop you from posting in the future just because Saul thinks that this particular opinion of yours is pointless?
Dude, you asked....
Quote from: just josh on March 18, 2008, 06:16:34 PM
Dude, you asked....
You BETTER not leave. I'm mighty pissed at all the good people leaving when they should be staying with vigor instead.
Everyone be quiet. Just look:
(http://www.sjhlex.org/images/sleeping%20newborn%20with%20cap%20fixed.jpg)
Quote from: DavidW on March 18, 2008, 06:06:07 PM
"What is wubba wubba?"
(http://www.jedidjah.dds.nl/Alphabet/SesameG/Grover.jpg)
Saw a monster in the mirror when I woke up today
A monster in my mirror but I did not run away
I did not shed a tear or hide beneath my bed
Though the monster looked at me and this is what he said:
He said "Wubba wubba wubba wubba woo woo woo"
Wubba wubba wubba and a doodly do
He sang "Wubba wubba wubba" so I sang it too
Do not wubba me or I will wubba you
Do not wubba me or I will wubba you
Quote from: Szykniej on March 18, 2008, 06:25:47 PM
(http://www.jedidjah.dds.nl/Alphabet/SesameG/Grover.jpg)
Saw a monster in the mirror when I woke up today
A monster in my mirror but I did not run away
I did not shed a tear or hide beneath my bed
Though the monster looked at me and this is what he said:
He said "Wubba wubba wubba wubba woo woo woo"
Wubba wubba wubba and a doodly do
He sang "Wubba wubba wubba" so I sang it too
Do not wubba me or I will wubba you
Do not wubba me or I will wubba you
Haha... ;D
Quote from: Brian on March 18, 2008, 06:18:23 PM
You BETTER not leave. I'm mighty pissed at all the good people leaving when they should be staying with vigor instead.
Unfortunately, no one here would admit to being anything than one of "the good people," so exactly who should be staying or going becomes a bit murky.
Quote from: Sforzando on March 18, 2008, 06:31:57 PM
Unfortunately, no one here would admit to being anything than one of "the good people," so exactly who should be staying or going becomes a bit murky.
True :-\ ;D
Quote from: Saul on March 18, 2008, 03:36:27 PM
What is Beauty?
O.k. Saul, it's time to get cracking:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0198245890/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link
$:)
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on March 18, 2008, 04:33:41 PMThat said, I'd wager that women's beauty is behind the basic inspiration for all art
I absolutely agree with this.
Quote from: Brian on March 18, 2008, 06:18:23 PM
You BETTER not leave. I'm mighty pissed at all the good people leaving when they should be staying with vigor instead.
For better or for worse, I ain't going nowhere. ;)
Quote from: Operahaven on March 18, 2008, 06:41:02 PM
O.k. Saul, it's time to get cracking:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0198245890/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link
$:)
The link shows nothing...
Quote from: Operahaven on March 18, 2008, 06:42:36 PM
I absolutely agree with this.
Seconded, as either directly or indirectly inspired.
The only thing I recall from the Tao Te Ching happens to concern beauty: "Under heaven all can see beauty as beauty only because there is ugliness." It's an interesting idea to consider.
Quote from: Keemun on March 18, 2008, 08:00:10 PM
The only thing I recall from the Tao Te Ching happens to concern beauty: "Under heaven all can see beauty as beauty only because there is ugliness." It's an interesting idea to consider.
So beauty comes from comparison. Why are we not allowed to compare 2 composers music again?
Quote from: Saul on March 18, 2008, 05:10:23 PM
I am not allowed to give a philosophical answer from my own religion about my own question?
Questions should be answered from reason, not from religion, whether it's judaism or other bu.....it.
Sibelius En Saga conclusion. Stop disturbing the forum with one out of 10000000 religions.
Three classic examples of classic beauty (Variazioni "at infinitum" are possible)
(http://www.iselinge.nl/Scholenplein/pabolessen/renaissance/Schilderij%20van%20Leonardo%20da%20Vinci.jpg)
Leonardo da Vinci
Arthur Rimbaud : from :Les Illuminations
Marine
Les chars d'argent et de cuivre -
Les proues d'acier et d'argent -
Battent l'écume, -
Soulèvent les souches des ronces.
Les courants de la lande,
Et les ornières immenses du reflux
Filent circulairement vers l'est,
Vers les piliers de la forêt, -
Vers les fûts de la jetée,
Dont l'angle est heurté par des
tourbillons de lumière.
(http://www.hortamuseum.be/images/photo14.jpg)
Victor Horta's house & atelier ( ca 1900) in Brussels.
Later: the beauty of horror and disease...you're warned!
Peter
Good post Peter.
Beatiful drawing.
The other faces of beauty :
Francisco de Goya : Los desastres de la guerra
(http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=1001&rendTypeId=4)
(http://www.soninkara.com/images/stories/users/sida-virus.jpg)
The aids virus
Beauty is to love, and be loved. :)
A good example : beauty and horror combine in a moving icon...
(http://www.masters-of-photography.com/images/full/smith/smith_minimata.jpg)
Minamata/Japan
(http://www.wroclaw.pl/img/muzeum-a-1.jpg)
a 15th century Polish Pieta
Quote from: pjme on March 19, 2008, 01:08:51 AM
(http://www.soninkara.com/images/stories/users/sida-virus.jpg)
The aids virus
Strange as it may seem, I've always found HIV to be beautiful... in a chilling, sinister way. While the virion itself may be striking, I find its means of replication and propagation to be even more fascinating. It is beutiful that something as relatively simple as a virus particle can do so much. One must marvel at the deadly inventiveness of evolution.
Quote from: Saul on March 18, 2008, 04:57:03 PM
You really think its mature to answer this question with a photo of a woman?
Yes, I do...when the photo is an image of my wife, my lover, my partner, my muse, my best friend. That she also happens to have striking physical beauty is just icing on the cake. Besides, a picture is worth a thousand words. ;D It saved time and effort to have a photograph explain what my definition of beauty is. But it wasn't just a picture but a name too. My wife's name. That should have clued you in, Saul.
You fancy yourself an artist, don't you? I would have thought you'd appreciate the photo purely as art even if you don't think women have any relationship to beauty. I consider that photograph one of my best portraits.
Sarge
Quote from: lukeottevanger on March 18, 2008, 04:06:17 PM
Beauty is truth, and truth beauty etc. etc.
And one composer who would subscribe to that 100% - a composer who thought the distinction between 'beautiful' and 'ugly' was nonsensical - was Janacek:
(http://www.brno.cz/galerie/obrazky/l1054116064.jpg)
Beautiful, yes?
Great find! Is that from the Sinfonietta fanfares?
Peter
Quote from: Corey on March 18, 2008, 03:53:17 PM
Sarge, that is a really gorgeous photo.
Thanks, Corey. It was one of those rare shoots that just worked perfectly; the setting, the light, the model. I took several rolls of film and most of the photos came out really well. The location was the Virginia-Kendall nature reserve in the Cuyahoga Valley just north of Akron Ohio. Late October, but a very warm day.
Sarge
Pierre Alechinsky
(http://www.expo-alechinsky.be/images/Images/8%20Pelures%20dorange%20et%20derives,%201962.JPG)
Japanese paper ( Chiyo Black Kanji on Silver)
(http://www.amazingpaper.com.au/persistent/catalogue_images/products/CH274.jpg)
Saul, when you look at those pictures you see just some women but Sarge, Mark and Haffner see their life and their world.
Are you married or have you ever been in love, if I may ask?
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 19, 2008, 02:49:12 AM
Thanks, Corey. It was one of those rare shoots that just worked perfectly; the setting, the light, the model. I took several rolls of film and most of the photos came out really well. The location was the Virginia-Kendall nature reserve in the Cuyahoga Valley just north of Akron Ohio. Late October, but a very warm day.
Sarge
Oh, I've been
there! I lived in Canton from the ages of 4 to 7.
Quote from: Haffner on March 19, 2008, 02:59:38 AM
Oh, I've been there! I lived in Canton from the ages of 4 to 7.
Hey! We're homies!
Quote from: Florestan on March 19, 2008, 02:57:25 AM
Saul, when you look at those pictures you see just some women but Sarge, Mark and Haffner see their life and their world.
Exactly. Thank you for understanding.
Sarge
The Zen-based Japanese aesthetic concept of mono no aware is one that resonates with me:
Meaning literally "a sensitivity to things," mono no aware is a concept describing the essence of Japanese culture, invented by the Japanese literary and linguistic scholar scholar Motoori Norinaga in the eighteenth century, and remains the central artistic imperative in Japan to this day. The phrase is derived from the word *aware*, which in Heian Japan meant sensitivity or sadness, and the word mono, meaning things, and describes beauty as an awareness of the transience of all things, and a gentle sadness at their passing. It can also be translated as the "ah-ness" of things, of life, and love....
....The fleeting nature of beauty described by mono no aware derives from the three states of existence in Buddhist philosophy: unsatisfactoriness, impersonality, and most importantly in this context, impermanence.
According to mono no aware, a falling or wilting autumn flower is more beautiful than one in full bloom; a fading sound more beautiful than one clearly heard; the moon partially clouded more appealing than full. The sakura or cherry blossom tree is the epitome of this conception of beauty; the flowers of the most famous variety, somei yoshino, nearly pure white tinged with a subtle pale pink, bloom and then fall within a single week. The subject of a thousand poems and a national icon, the cherry blossom tree embodies beauty as a transient experience. ....
.... The Japanese ideal sees beauty instead as an experience of the heart and soul, a feeling for and appreciation of objects or artwork—most commonly nature or the depiction of—in a pristine, untouched state.
An appreciation of beauty as a state which does not last and cannot be grasped is not the same as nihilism, and can better be understood in relation to Zen Buddhism's philosophy of earthly transcendence: a spiritual longing for that which is infinite and eternal—the source of all worldly beauty. As the monk Sotoba wrote in *Zenrin Kushū* (Poetry of the Zenrin Temple), Zen does not regard nothingness as a state of absence, but rather the affirmation of an unseen that exists behind empty space: "Everything exists in emptiness: flowers, the moon in the sky, beautiful scenery." ....
~~~~~~~~~
LINK: http://ezinearticles.com/?Mono-No-Aware:-The-Essence-of-Japan&id=435418
(I don't agree with this article in its entirety, re: the subjective/objective business and I don't entirely agree with this article's over-simplification of western aesthetics, but the basic idea I really identify with).
Based largely upon classical Greek ideals, beauty in the West is sought in the ultimate perfection of an external object: a sublime painting, perfect sculpture or intricate musical composition; a beauty that could be said to be only skin deep
This is not an over-simplification but just plain nonsense.
The Japanese aesthetics, on the other hand, is indeed fascinating.
Female beauty : "OUR PERCEPTION IS DISTORTED".....not all beauties are as solid as a (mrs.) Rock....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ikNtE_o5Qc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ikNtE_o5Qc)
(http://wsi.matriots.com/What%20is%20a%20Jew_files/mayer.jpe)
(http://wsi.matriots.com/What%20is%20a%20Jew_files/JewishLook.jpe)
(http://wsi.matriots.com/What%20is%20a%20Jew_files/JewishNose.jpe)
Beautiful! ;D
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on March 18, 2008, 04:33:41 PM
That said, i'd wager that women's beauty is behind the basic inspiration for all art, along side with nature.
That theory works a little better for Tristan und Isolde or the Divine Comedy than for the St. Matthew Passion or Hamlet.
Quote from: маразм1 on March 19, 2008, 05:28:14 AM
(http://wsi.matriots.com/What%20is%20a%20Jew_files/mayer.jpe)
(http://wsi.matriots.com/What%20is%20a%20Jew_files/JewishLook.jpe)
(http://wsi.matriots.com/What%20is%20a%20Jew_files/JewishNose.jpe)
Beautiful! ;D
"A nose is not manufactured: a nose just is, thus, too, my art." ~ Igor Stravinsky ;)
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 18, 2008, 03:42:00 PM
Mrs. Rock
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/asheville/mrs%20rock%2004.jpg)
That's a genuine beauty right there! She doesn't have to force anything.
I can almost imagine how she moves. A graceful lady, yes?
And LOOK at those hands!!
Lucky man, indeed.
Quote from: Saul on March 18, 2008, 04:39:34 PM
No, its you that has this view, thinking that women are men's "Play thing" that was created just so men have "fun".
The ancient kings used to think this way, and you are very similar to them in this sense.
It's good to be the King. 8)
Quote from: Daidalos on March 19, 2008, 02:08:12 AM
Strange as it may seem, I've always found HIV to be beautiful... in a chilling, sinister way. While the virion itself may be striking, I find its means of replication and propagation to be even more fascinating. It is beutiful that something as relatively simple as a virus particle can do so much. One must marvel at the deadly inventiveness of evolution.
:o :o One day I am sure mankind will find a cure to this terrible disease! Nothing attractive about that virus whatsoever as far as I am concerned! If anything it is the very definition of ugliness!!
marvin
(http://www.magicaljapan.co.uk/Images/japan1.jpg)
(http://i.play.tm/s/9828/p/s.jpg)
[mp3=200,20,0,center]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/14/1346899/sym10%20clips.mp3[/mp3]
Quote from: just josh on March 19, 2008, 03:26:16 AM
The Zen-based Japanese aesthetic concept of mono no aware is one that resonates with me:
Meaning literally "a sensitivity to things," mono no aware is a concept describing the essence of Japanese culture, invented by the Japanese literary and linguistic scholar scholar Motoori Norinaga in the eighteenth century, and remains the central artistic imperative in Japan to this day. The phrase is derived from the word *aware*, which in Heian Japan meant sensitivity or sadness, and the word mono, meaning things, and describes beauty as an awareness of the transience of all things, and a gentle sadness at their passing. It can also be translated as the "ah-ness" of things, of life, and love....
....The fleeting nature of beauty described by mono no aware derives from the three states of existence in Buddhist philosophy: unsatisfactoriness, impersonality, and most importantly in this context, impermanence.
According to mono no aware, a falling or wilting autumn flower is more beautiful than one in full bloom; a fading sound more beautiful than one clearly heard; the moon partially clouded more appealing than full. The sakura or cherry blossom tree is the epitome of this conception of beauty; the flowers of the most famous variety, somei yoshino, nearly pure white tinged with a subtle pale pink, bloom and then fall within a single week. The subject of a thousand poems and a national icon, the cherry blossom tree embodies beauty as a transient experience. ....
.... The Japanese ideal sees beauty instead as an experience of the heart and soul, a feeling for and appreciation of objects or artwork—most commonly nature or the depiction of—in a pristine, untouched state.
An appreciation of beauty as a state which does not last and cannot be grasped is not the same as nihilism, and can better be understood in relation to Zen Buddhism's philosophy of earthly transcendence: a spiritual longing for that which is infinite and eternal—the source of all worldly beauty. As the monk Sotoba wrote in *Zenrin Kushū* (Poetry of the Zenrin Temple), Zen does not regard nothingness as a state of absence, but rather the affirmation of an unseen that exists behind empty space: "Everything exists in emptiness: flowers, the moon in the sky, beautiful scenery." ....
~~~~~~~~~
LINK: http://ezinearticles.com/?Mono-No-Aware:-The-Essence-of-Japan&id=435418
(I don't agree with this article in its entirety, re: the subjective/objective business and I don't entirely agree with this article's over-simplification of western aesthetics, but the basic idea I really identify with).
This is good stuff. It's pretty close to the aesthetic of wabi sabi, which is in a sense the artistic wing of Zen. In his book on the subject, Andrew Juniper has this to say:
Quote from: Andrew Juniperthe term wabi-sabi suggests such qualities as impermanence, humility, asymmetry, and imperfection. These underlying principles are diametrically opposed to those of their Western counterparts, whose values are rooted in the Hellenic worldview that values permanence, grandeur, symmetry, and perfection. ... Wabi-sabi is an intuitive appreciation of a transient beauty in the physical world that reflects the irreversible flow of life in the spiritual world. It is an understated beauty that exists in the modest, rustic, imperfect, or even decayed, an aesthetic sensibility that finds a melancholic beauty in the impermanence of all things.
I find this aesthetic approach fascinating, and it's informed my own composition to quite an extent. At the very least ti reminds us that there is more than one aesthetic of what is beautiful.
Re my Janacek image - yes, these incredibly scruffy pages are the sketches for the fanfares which ended up in the Sinfonietta and thrill most who hear them. Are they beautiful or ugly? Stupid question. They are scruffy and by some standards physically unattractive....yet they are expressive of great urgency, of inspiration in the creation of something momentous. They are the physical manifestation of something very beautiful (to most of us). As Janacek said, 'what do I care for the borrowed attributes 'beautiful' or 'ugly'? '
I know that in Japanese, it sound very different. But in English, mono no aware is a great little phrase, too.
Josh, check PM!
Quote from: marvinbrown on March 19, 2008, 06:10:20 AM:o :o One day I am sure mankind will find a cure to this terrible disease! Nothing attractive about that virus whatsoever as far as I am concerned! If anything it is the very definition of ugliness!!
My question about the aids virus is the following: People tend to compare this with the medieval pestilence. The problem: People around me simply don't want to suffer from HIV. According to the pestilence comparison, people aound me should already be dead.
Not a single one that I know of in the years since HIV came up. And don't tell me they all keep it secret.
Is this a first class disease? I mean, no one cares if people die from typical things like cancer or heart attacks. But AIDS, in western countries, is the mother of diseases. Why? Is it because it's threatening the proposed "party and fuck around" western lifestyle standard (which only a few live)? Or Africa hypocrisy?
Why is it the mother of diseases? Why don't other more likely diseases win the importance crown?
Quote from: karlhenning on March 19, 2008, 06:43:30 AM
I know that in Japanese, it sound very different. But in English, mono no aware is a great little phrase, too.
Josh, check PM!
Stereo very aware? ;D
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 18, 2008, 03:42:00 PM
Mrs. Rock
Lovely indeed; and in this photo, sort of like a
Jn Wm Waterhouse subject,
Sarge.
Quote from: karlhenning on March 19, 2008, 07:45:20 AM
Lovely indeed; and in this photo, sort of like a Jn Wm Waterhouse subject, Sarge.
Brunettes
ROCK!
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on March 18, 2008, 04:33:41 PM
That said, i'd wager that women's beauty is behind the basic inspiration for all art
That's an absurd absolute.
Quote from: Mark on March 18, 2008, 04:49:08 PM
. . . And also, don't ask such an open-ended question in your OP if you're not prepared to consider all the responses. You didn't ask, 'What's the definition of beauty?' You asked only, 'What is beauty?'
And, images of feminine pulchritude are one valid response to such a broad query.
Quote from: Saul on March 18, 2008, 04:57:03 PM
I asked to describe with words what beauty means...
You did not.
You asked,
What is beauty?
Quote from: Mark on March 18, 2008, 05:07:02 PM
You're soooooooooooooooooo transparent. Everything comes back to Jewishness with you, doesn't it? It's pathetic.
Good heavens! And as if beauty means exactly the same thing to all Jews . . . .
Quote from: Saul on March 18, 2008, 05:54:21 PM
It is indeed beautiful, but I think it doesnt explain what beauty is.
Perhaps part of your error, is in imagining that beauty can be (or need be) "explained."
Perhaps the truth is related to the observation in the Tao Te Ching; a
The Beauty which can be explained is not true Beauty thing.
Quote from: DavidW on March 18, 2008, 06:06:07 PM
"What is wubba wubba?"
The Wubba Wubba which can be explained is not the true Wubba Wubba 8)
Quote from: just josh on March 18, 2008, 07:23:02 PM
For better or for worse, I ain't going nowhere. ;)
Oh, well, I
do call that better 8)
i just stopped the monologue
Quote from: Keemun on March 18, 2008, 08:00:10 PM
The only thing I recall from the Tao Te Ching happens to concern beauty: "Under heaven all can see beauty as beauty only because there is ugliness." It's an interesting idea to consider.
I don't quite endorse that. I can find a Maine seacoast beautiful, even without having personally experienced Trenton, New Jersey 8)
Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on March 19, 2008, 08:01:59 AM
i just stopped the monologue
Thanks!
Quote from: karlhenning on March 19, 2008, 07:45:20 AM
Lovely indeed; and in this photo, sort of like a Jn Wm Waterhouse subject, Sarge.
Nicely observed, Karl. Yes, this could be my Ophelia.
Sarge
Quote from: pjme on March 19, 2008, 01:08:51 AM
The aids virus
Beautiful in form, not in function or effect.
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 19, 2008, 08:03:39 AM
Nicely observed, Karl. Yes, this could be my Ophelia.
Phone for you,
Sarge; chap named Laertes ;)
Quote from: karlhenning on March 19, 2008, 08:05:22 AM
Beautiful in form, not in function or effect.
A perfect illustration of the fact that formal beauty in itself is worth nothing.
(http://antiquesandthearts.com/Archives/Images/TradeTalk03-18-2003-14-32-24Image2.GIF)
Since we all swoon over art Nouveau / Symbolist Art.....Mme.Rock, les cheveux en chignon....
Quote from: lukeottevanger on March 19, 2008, 06:36:50 AM
As Janacek said, 'what do I care for the borrowed attributes 'beautiful' or 'ugly'? '
He need not; that is the key. Freedom is the necessary precondition for great art. This is not to say that freedom is
all that matters, nor that this freedom is anything like a
guarantee of greatness in art.
Therefore, those artists who find it artistically fruitful to concentrate on a narrower idea of Beauty, also must have the freedom (not that it's a freedom anyone is likely to seek to remove from them) to pursue that. Sure, there is a lot of artistic twaddle committed in the name of pale notions of "beauty" (Thomas Kincade, anyone?); but the fault there is not in the artists' stars, but in themselves.
One of the problems (which we have seen neighbors as diverse as Eric and Saul try to wield as bludgeons, and — let it be remarked — as signally
unbeautiful bludgeons, at that) is when it is not a matter of an artist carving out a philosophy as an environment for his own work (which is one thing), but the matter of anyone trying to impose some sort of "beauty test" as a prescriptive restriction.
Lastly for now: I've said that (let's roll the videotape)
Freedom is the necessary precondition for great art. What of
Shostakovich? Does this mean that his work after a certain date, when his freedom was to some degree or other curtailed, ceased to be great (if ever it was)? Two points to this question.
1. Music by its nature is more abstract, less susceptible to specific "meaning"; of its essence, it is one of the very freest of artistic disciplines. The willow bends in a storm which breaks the oak;
Shostakovich met the forces of oppression which bore down upon him, with a remarkable suppleness of artistry.
2. How much freedom is the 'necessary quotient' of freedom? — in countless instances, the great artist takes the limitations of the moment, of the situation, as in fact a kind of creative stimulus. But yes, it takes a great artist to do this.
Free your mind, and your corporeal self will follow.
Quote from: Florestan on March 19, 2008, 08:07:17 AM
A perfect illustration of the fact that formal beauty in itself is worth nothing.
...but it may appeal to the animal in us.
Quote from: pjme on March 19, 2008, 08:09:37 AM
...but it may appeal to the animal in us.
Be-
have!(http://i14.ebayimg.com/04/c/05/ae/48/7b_7.JPG)
Quote from: pjme on March 19, 2008, 04:36:10 AM
Female beauty : "OUR PERCEPTION IS DISTORTED".....not all beauties are as solid as a (mrs.) Rock....
;D :D ;D
Quote from: pjme on March 19, 2008, 08:08:28 AM
(http://antiquesandthearts.com/Archives/Images/TradeTalk03-18-2003-14-32-24Image2.GIF)
Since we all swoon over art Nouveau / Symbolist Art.....Mme.Rock, les cheveux en chignon....
Lovely
Quote from: karlhenning on March 19, 2008, 08:15:06 AM
Be-have!
(http://i14.ebayimg.com/04/c/05/ae/48/7b_7.JPG)
I wont!
Yesterday, after work, my bedroom!!
(http://www.esoforums.com/blog/images/NeDisPasEzoEzo/Alma-Taddema_Heliogabale.jpg)
Oh, to be sure, a lovely mural for the bedroom, Peter! ;D
Quote from: karlhenning on March 19, 2008, 07:45:20 AM
Lovely indeed; and in this photo, sort of like a Jn Wm Waterhouse subject, Sarge.
Exactly what I was thinking too. The color palette should be a bit more like this though:
Quote from: karlhenning on March 19, 2008, 09:02:38 AM
Oh, to be sure, a lovely mural for the bedroom, Peter! ;D
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: karlhenning on March 19, 2008, 07:58:36 AM
The Wubba Wubba which can be explained is not the true Wubba Wubba 8)
A faux Wubba Wubba is better than no Wubba Wubba.
It is better to have Wubba Wubba'ed and lost than to have never Wubba Wubba'ed at all.
Quote from: Szykniej on March 19, 2008, 09:49:51 AM
A faux Wubba Wubba is better than no Wubba Wubba.
It is better to have Wubba Wubba'ed and lost than to have never Wubba Wubba'ed at all.
Just don't Wubba me the wong way, all wight? ;D
Don't sleep in the Wubba Wubba, darlin' . . . .
Beauty, eh?
(http://www.alicia-logic.com/capsimages/sbr_001DaveThomas.jpg)
Quote from: karlhenning on March 19, 2008, 10:03:32 AM
Don't sleep in the Wubba Wubba, darlin' . . . .
Don't stand in the Wubba Wubba rain ... ?
You guys do realize that Laura Bush read a children's book called "Wubba Wubba Wubba" on Sesame Street once, right? ;D
Quote from: Brian on March 19, 2008, 11:27:25 AM
You guys do realize that Laura Bush read a children's book called "Wubba Wubba Wubba" on Sesame Street once, right? ;D
Did she read it to George?
Quote from: Saul on March 18, 2008, 07:28:26 PM
[after being directed to Immanuel Kant's famous examination of beauty]
The link shows nothing...
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Harry on March 19, 2008, 01:28:14 AM
Beauty is to love, and be loved. :)
So very true, sir. :)
Quote from: Wurstwasser on March 19, 2008, 07:02:50 AM
My question about the aids virus is the following: People tend to compare this with the medieval pestilence. The problem: People around me simply don't want to suffer from HIV. According to the pestilence comparison, people aound me should already be dead. Not a single one that I know of in the years since HIV came up. And don't tell me they all keep it secret.
Is this a first class disease? I mean, no one cares if people die from typical things like cancer or heart attacks. But AIDS, in western countries, is the mother of diseases. Why? Is it because it's threatening the proposed "party and fuck around" western lifestyle standard (which only a few live)? Or Africa hypocrisy?
Why is it the mother of diseases? Why don't other more likely diseases win the importance crown?
AIDS (or HIV the virus that causes AIDS) is quite different from the other diseases you mention in your post in the sense that with cancer you have chemotherapy and surgery God forbid as treatment, also early detection can save a life. As dreadful as cancer is there is always hope. People can live with cancer for years. Heart attacks are a piece of cake- avoid saturated fats and cholesterol and you're home free- read Dr. Ornish's book on preventing and reversing heart disease and you'll see what I am talking about. The problem with HIV is just that- there is no cure, the clock starts to tick after infection, the uncertainty I would image to be unbearable and should the virus become active (full blown AIDS) death is almost certain. In addition it has thwarted any medical attempts to find a vaccine for it. It really is a terrible virus- there is nothing beautiful about it- it is pure ugliness!
marvin
Took this one yesterday.
Quote from: Haffner on March 19, 2008, 01:46:19 PMTook this one yesterday.
I like you a lot!... Adorable!
:) :) :)
Quote from: Haffner on March 19, 2008, 01:46:19 PM
Took this one yesterday.
Well, they talk about 'power behind the throne', but it seems that some posters have real beauties behind them...
Quote from: Josquin des Prez on March 18, 2008, 04:33:41 PM
Bi'd wager that women's beauty is behind the basic inspiration for all art,
Ummmm what about Tchaikovsky?????
Quote from: Jezetha on March 19, 2008, 02:39:50 PM
Well, they talk about 'power behind the throne', but it seems that some posters have real beauties behind them...
That's my girl, and bless all of you for all the compliments. She makes me happiest.
Quote from: c#minor on March 19, 2008, 03:09:13 PM
Ummmm what about Tchaikovsky?????
(http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif) (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif) (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif) (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif) (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif)
(http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif) (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif) (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif) (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif) (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif)
(http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif) (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif) (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif) (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif) (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif)
(http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif) (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif) (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif) (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif) (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif)
Quote from: c#minor on March 19, 2008, 03:09:13 PM
Ummmm what about Tchaikovsky?????
And Barber, Rorem, Bernstein, Diamond, and whoever else I'm forgetting at the moment...
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 19, 2008, 02:49:12 AM
Thanks, Corey. It was one of those rare shoots that just worked perfectly; the setting, the light, the model. I took several rolls of film and most of the photos came out really well. The location was the Virginia-Kendall nature reserve in the Cuyahoga Valley just north of Akron Ohio. Late October, but a very warm day.
Sarge
Wow, I am from Youngstown and have many friends in Cuyahoga Falls.
Quote from: Mark on March 18, 2008, 04:41:54 PM
If being with a woman like this makes me a child ...
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb31/idowords/2005-09-09-190018.jpg)
... then pass the candy. ;)
She did
make you a child ;)
Quote from: btpaul674 on March 19, 2008, 08:36:02 PM
Wow, I am from Youngstown and have many friends in Cuyahoga Falls.
Another Ohio native! My hometown is south of Akron in Wayne County. After we married, Mrs. Rock and I lived in Cuyahoga Falls for three years. I was assigned to the Cleveland District Recruiting Command with a duty station in Cuyahoga Falls. The job sucked but it had two major advantages: I was close to my family...and close to the Cleveland Orchestra 8)
Sarge
Ms. Benny
(http://www.archeophile.com/im/ugly.gif)
Quote from: Benny on March 20, 2008, 04:22:23 AM
Ms. Benny
(http://www.archeophile.com/im/ugly.gif)
You're a lucky man, Benny.
Quote from: Benny on March 20, 2008, 04:22:23 AM
Ms. Benny
(http://www.archeophile.com/im/ugly.gif)
Impressive ears on your better half, Benny but...can she pick up things with her toes?
Sarge
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 20, 2008, 05:24:01 AM
Impressive ears on your better half, Benny but...can she pick up things with her toes?
Sarge
What toes? ;D
Quote from: James on March 21, 2008, 08:27:05 AM
Beauty or Truth?
http://www.youtube.com/v/yq9NT7k-6rY
nice interpretation of Prokofiev
Quote from: karlhenning on March 19, 2008, 10:03:32 AM
Don't sleep in the Wubba Wubba, darlin' . . . .
Prefer Cardinal Richelieu's version.