What is it with Polish Composers?
They seem to access peoples brain pathways through the ears, and proceed to tie them up and throw them around a bit before tickling them and laying them back to where they were in the first place. It is my experience with these composers (Lutoslawski, Penderecki, et al, but perhaps not Chopin) that they have a magnificent way of messing with our brains for a short time, leaving us in a state of wonder and near brain mismanagement. They do things with music which is mostly unexpected and sometimes quite unearthly, making us think in entirely different ways about what we're listening to and our relationship with the World around us.
Superb.
Er...or maybe that's just me... ::)
And here I was, thinking you were starting a thread about the various "Antarctic" symphonies in history...
(Or was I, really? ;))
I thought this was sexually oriented. Who wouldn't want a magic pole?
Quote from: erato on June 10, 2008, 09:14:08 AM
I thought this was sexually oriented. Who wouldn't want a magic pole?
How odd.
Since this appears to be the first ever GMG thread about Poles not started by me (!), I will do my best to keep it afloat as long as possible by periodically dropping by and adding a few lines (of nonsense). Long live The Magic of the Poles! Long live near brain mismanagement!
And who knows, once in a while I might even try to actually contribute something to the discussion! :o
Quote from: Maciek on June 10, 2008, 09:23:15 AM
Since this appears to be the first ever GMG thread about Poles not started by me (!), I will do my best to keep it afloat as long as possible by periodically dropping by and adding a few lines (of nonsense). Long live The Magic of the Poles! Long live near brain mismanagement!
And who knows, once in a while I might even try to actually contribute something to the discussion! :o
You have certainly done your bit in awakening my slumbering interest in polish composers which currently haven't gone much further than Chopin and Szymanowsky, with a few albums of Paderewski and X Scharwenka (fine chamber music and a marvelous piano concerto 4). Currently it stops there, but it won't do forever.
Maciek: The moderator who is never there. ;)
Anyone hear that Polish Spirit album by Kennedy?
I heard it in concert version (on the radio) but I don't think it was the same concert as the one on the DVD. Anyway, I've had Mlynarski's VC for ages (with Kulka, one of my first classical CDs ever). And, frankly, I never really liked it. Now, the
Karłowicz VC - that's a
completely different story. Never too many recordings of that one! 8) (Have only got about 3, I think.)
Quote from: mn dave on June 10, 2008, 09:29:29 AM
Maciek: The moderator who is never there. ;)
It was truer than I thought it would be when I added it into my profile. ;D Think I should add it back in?
Quote from: Maciek on June 10, 2008, 09:33:50 AM
I heard it in concert version (on the radio) but I don't think it was the same concert as the one on the DVD. Anyway, I've had Mlynarski's VC for ages (with Kulka, one of my first classical CDs ever). And, frankly, I never really liked it. Now, the Karłowicz VC - that's a completely different story. Never too many recordings of that one! 8) (Have only got about 3, I think.)
Thanks!
QuoteIt was truer than I thought it would be when I added it into my profile. ;D Think I should add it back in?
Aw, I was just joking.
Incidentally, doesn't he (Nigel Kennedy) live in Poland or something?
Quote from: Maciek on June 10, 2008, 10:37:18 AM
Incidentally, doesn't he (Nigel Kennedy) live in Poland or something?
Yes. He married one and is now running the country. Haven't you heard?
Krakow I think.
Quote from: mn dave on June 10, 2008, 10:38:25 AM
Yes. He married one ... Haven't you heard?
Must have missed it... ???
Quote from: mahler10th on June 10, 2008, 04:53:46 AM
(Lutoslawski, Penderecki, et al, but perhaps not Chopin)
Do you have specific pieces by Lutoslawski and Penderecki in mind (just curious)? Who are the "al" (ditto)?
I think Chopin is capable of messing with our brains too. You should try the piece linked to here (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,6684.msg172585.html#msg172585).
Quote from: Maciek on June 10, 2008, 09:33:50 AM
It was truer than I thought it would be when I added it into my profile. ;D Think I should add it back in?
A better alternative would be for you to be here more often. $:) We all need a Pole by which to orient ourselves.
This is starting to become my favorite thread. 0:)
We shall have words if that is the case. >:( I think you know what I'm talking about.
"starting to become" is not the same as "is" $:) ;D (But I have to admit - I really have trouble keeping up with what is happening over there. 0:))
BTW, has anyone seen Sean lately (after all, he was the one who started it all)?
Quote from: mahler10th on June 10, 2008, 04:53:46 AM
What is it with Polish Composers?
They seem to access peoples brain pathways through the ears, and proceed to tie them up and throw them around a bit before tickling them and laying them back to where they were in the first place. It is my experience with these composers (Lutoslawski, Penderecki, et al, but perhaps not Chopin) that they have a magnificent way of messing with our brains for a short time, leaving us in a state of wonder and near brain mismanagement. They do things with music which is mostly unexpected and sometimes quite unearthly, making us think in entirely different ways about what we're listening to and our relationship with the World around us.
Superb.
Er...or maybe that's just me... ::)
not just you ;)
Quote from: Maciek on June 10, 2008, 08:56:45 AM
And here I was, thinking you were starting a thread about the various "Antarctic" symphonies in history...
(Or was I, really? ;))
hm, i know a few that are p-p-p-r-r-r-e-e-et-t-t-t-y g-g-g-g-g--g-g-g-g-good.....
Can't remember the last time I've been to a thread that was being read by more than 10 people at the same time! (And that includes "What are you listening to?"!)
Quote from: Maciek on June 10, 2008, 11:23:51 AM
Can't remember the last time I've been to a thread that was being read by more than 10 people at the same time!
I guess when the guests see a thread title with "Magic Poles"......
Lutoslawski - Symphony Number Three.
If you haven't enjoyed a Pole in your head :o , try that for a start. I really mean it, there are things going on in that Symphony alone which will make you wobble in your own reality. I myself have been wobbling since 1993 when I first heard it. I think it must have been composed as some kind of transportation device, taking you to.... :-X
I like the way you talk about music, John.
Quote from: Maciek on June 10, 2008, 11:20:38 AM
"starting to become" is not the same as "is" $:) ;D (But I have to admit - I really have trouble keeping up with what is happening over there. 0:))
Come back and join in again - we're at the beginning of a whole new set of pieces at last, the previous long session at last being completed a couple of days ago. Should be easy to slot back in.
Quote from: Maciek on June 10, 2008, 11:20:38 AM
BTW, has anyone seen Sean lately (after all, he was the one who started it all)?
No, but if we stick around he'll be bound to turn up eventually.
Quote from: lukeottevanger on June 10, 2008, 12:20:18 PM
Should be easy to slot back in.
Yes, but will people be saying nice things about me over there? 0:) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Not if you don't turn up soon. Quite the opposite >:D >:D ;)
I'd better steer clear off. Just to be on the safe side... >:D >:D >:D
I just realized I must have first heard Lutoslawski's 3rd around 1993 too. First Lutoslawski piece that I ever listened to (consciously). Never ceases to amaze. (Sorry, mahler10th, I don't have your way with words - you'll have to settle for what I'm giving. 0:))
Quote from: Maciek on June 10, 2008, 08:56:45 AM
And here I was, thinking you were starting a thread about the various "Antarctic" symphonies in history...
(Or was I, really? ;))
Vaughan Williams' Sinfonia Antartica AND the 'Antarctic Symphony"(his Eighth Symphony) by Sir Peter Maxwell Davies.
Just for the record :) (May be more?)
I know that there was a thread last year about Panufnik and that he got some pretty mixed comments from members(including Maciek).
I do think that he ought to be counted as a Polish composer despite living in Britain from 1954.
I happen to like a lot of Panufnik's music-including the (perhaps) less popular later works. His most accessible and popular symphony is the Sinfonia Sacra(No.3) and I know that the Sinfonia di Sfere(No.5) and the Sinfonia Mistica(No.6) can be 'tough nuts' to crack. I have never hear the Metasinfonia(No.7) for organ, timpani and strings but I do really like the Sinfonia di Speranza(No.9) which is a remarkably powerful and impressive work.
In a recent interview Antoni Wit, the fine conductor of the Warsaw Philharmonic Orchestra, was quoted as saying that he was discussing a Panufnik series with Naxos(continuing his great work for Lutoslawski and Penderecki). I hope that such a series does come to fruition. Panufnik is not an easy composer-not because his idiom is necessarily difficult-but because of the complex construction of the symphonies, frequently on mathematical principles. He does, I think, deserve more exposure and many of the shorter, more obviously Polish works are most moving.
Thanks Dundonnell. Does this mean that Panufnik has mathematical formulae which he uses to synchronise our brains into hypnotic trance states which reveal unknown wonders and truths to us in a way which we do not yet understand like all the other Magic Poles do? If so, I'll buy some today!! ;D
I'm away to 'sample' Panufnik now...
Ha! I completely forgot that thread ever existed (here (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,388.20.html)it is)!
Well, Guido rightly chastised me for being unkind then. Actually, before Gorecki's astounding break, Panufnik was usually enumerated, in one breath, together with Lutoslawski and Penderecki - it was the trio of "great second-half-of-the-20th-century Polish composers". Today Gorecki seems to have taken Panufnik's place in that set but it's obvious that all for of them are great (and very different) musical individualities. (With Lutoslawski quietly looming above the others.) Just so you don't think I completely changed my mind: I still do feel that Panufnik went a bit too far in stripping down his musical language...
[Side note: actually, in that context the word "great" does not necessarily imply musical quality; rather, it seems to simply mean "those who managed to make some sort of career abroad". At a certain point, Gorecki ousted Panufnik in that category.]
I think Goreckis career was plucked out of obscurity by Classic FM not long after its launch in the early '90s. Quite why his 3rd Symphony (Zinman / Upshaw) succeeded I don't know, but the album was destined to be No.1 in the classical chart for months on end, and if it was an experiment to see how influencial a commercial classical station could be in the UK, then it certainly worked. Less successful by a long way was the 'Beatus Vir' follow-up.
Personally, I far prefer his 2nd symphony which, after bashing the brain to bits in the first part, strokes it gently and warmly in the second. It truly is magical.
I think relative obscurity would be more accurate. I suppose Gorecki's status before that Upshaw recording was comparable to today's status of... I don't know, say Kotonski. Widely known at home and admired by some/many, but practically non-existent abroad.
Quote from: Maciek on June 11, 2008, 05:52:01 AM
I think relative obscurity would be more accurate. I suppose Gorecki's status before that Upshaw recording was comparable to today's status of... I don't know, say Kotonski. Widely known at home and admired by some/many, but practically non-existent abroad.
What has Gorecki composed recently-ie within, say, the last ten years or so?
I think his most recent piece is the 3rd String Quartet, premiered by the Kronos Quartet here in 2005 and now available on CD.
Some other pieces written (or at least premiered) after 1998:
Salve sidus Polonorum op. 72 for choir, 2 pianos, organ and percussion. A Polish Radio CD was available for a very short time but went out of print.
Lobgesang for choir and (tubular?) bells
Kurpie songs for choir
several other pieces for choir and some miniatures for violin(s).
Also, he's made a string orchestra arrangement of the "quasi una fantasia" SQ.
There may be more - his pieces often wait a long while before being first performed.
In honor of magic poles everywhere, I have changed my forum name. 0:)
Quote from: Dundonnell on June 10, 2008, 03:23:18 PM
...and I know that the Sinfonia di Sfere(No.5) and the Sinfonia Mistica(No.6) can be 'tough nuts' to crack.
I just heard No. 5 for the first time about two weeks ago, in its U.S. premiere performance by Leon Botstein and the American Symphony Orchestra, and thought it was well worth hearing (and repeating). Among other things, it has a very prominent and difficult piano part (sort of like the use of the instrument in say,
Petrouchka).
Quote from: Magic Dave on June 11, 2008, 08:46:45 AM
In honor of magic poles everywhere, I have changed my forum name. 0:)
;D
--Bruce
Quote from: mahler10th on June 10, 2008, 12:00:44 PM
Lutoslawski - Symphony Number Three.
If you haven't enjoyed a Pole in your head :o , try that for a start.
Uhhhh...okay. :D I'll try it. I just checked my list and discovered I do own a Lutoslawski Third (wasn't sure). I don't believe I ever listened to it. Does it make good dinner background music? ;D Probably not. Okay, I'll play it right after dinner.
Grill Sergeant Rock, putting on his apron, picking up his tongs, and heading to the grill
P.S. And now I know why Dave changed his name 8)
Sarge, does that imply you've never enjoyed a Pole in your head? ;D
Quote from: Maciek on June 11, 2008, 10:08:34 AM
Sarge, does that imply you've never enjoyed a Pole in your head? ;D
I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it might incriminate me.
I've just had my brain mismanaged though, listening to this
(http://photos.imageevent.com/sgtrock/maygmg/LutBar3.jpg)
and I actually understand what Mahler10 means now.
Sarge
I give myself 10 points for thinking right away: he probably has the Barenboim recording... And it was the only specific recording that crossed my mind!
I know you won't believe me but it's true. 0:)
(Perhaps it was because it's one I've never heard.)
Quote from: Maciek on June 11, 2008, 11:38:32 AM
I give myself 10 points for thinking right away: he probably has the Barenboim recording... And it was the only specific recording that crossed my mind!
I know you won't believe me but it's true. 0:)
(Perhaps it was because it's one I've never heard.)
It's the only one I own (bought it because it was really cheap ;D ) so I can't tell you if it's any good compared to other versions. On my first run through I heard nothing to disappoint. The Chicago brass are pretty spectacular of course. What version, or versions do you recommend?
Sarge
Well, everyone says that Salonen's (which can be downloaded from amazon for something like a buck 8)) is the best. Haven't heard it yet, though. I know two different Wits and a Lutoslawski. All of them with the same orchestra (PRNSO). All of them are OK but I suspect that the Salonen is what we are both looking for. Judging by the number of people I trust who have recommended it, it must be one hell of a brain mismanager!
Oh, and mahler10th, you have mail! :)
Quote from: Maciek on June 11, 2008, 01:20:03 PM
Well, everyone says that Salonen's (which can be downloaded from amazon for something like a buck 8)) is the best. Haven't heard it yet, though. I know two different Wits and a Lutoslawski. All of them with the same orchestra (PRNSO). All of them are OK but I suspect that the Salonen is what we are both looking for. Judging by the number of people I trust who have recommended it, it must be one hell of a brain mismanager!
Yes, now I recall all the reviews that raved about the Salonen. Not sure why I never bought it.
Sarge
Quote from: Maciek on June 11, 2008, 01:20:03 PM
Well, everyone says that Salonen's (which can be downloaded from amazon for something like a buck 8)) is the best. Haven't heard it yet, though. I know two different Wits and a Lutoslawski. All of them with the same orchestra (PRNSO). All of them are OK but I suspect that the Salonen is what we are both looking for. Judging by the number of people I trust who have recommended it, it must be one hell of a brain mismanager!
Salonen and the LA Philharmonic is indeed the Polish Magic which I've got. Also a recording from the Proms 1992ish which I'll have to look out. To be honest, the music completely threw me when I heard it, threw me in a "This is music and I am no longer of this Earth" kind of way which both made sense and had me wobbling. Hope the Sarge didn't drop his fork when he was listening to it. Haven't heard the Barenboim version...
Quote from: mahler10th on June 11, 2008, 01:52:04 PM
Hope the Sarge didn't drop his fork when he was listening to it. Haven't heard the Barenboim version...
No, we timed dinner perfectly. The Concerto ended with our last bites, and then we held off dessert (strawberries and cream) until the Symphony was over. I really wanted to give it my complete attention. It was worth it.
Sarge
Quote from: Maciek on June 11, 2008, 01:20:03 PM
Well, everyone says that Salonen's (which can be downloaded from amazon for something like a buck 8)) is the best. Haven't heard it yet, though. I know two different Wits and a Lutoslawski. All of them with the same orchestra (PRNSO). All of them are OK but I suspect that the Salonen is what we are both looking for. Judging by the number of people I trust who have recommended it, it must be one hell of a brain mismanager!
Of the half-dozen I've heard I like BP/Lutoslawski (the one on the Philips twofer) best: superb playing, and a composer's understanding of his own work. I find LAPO/Salonen a bit less well-played and just less convincing overall.
I've not heard Barenboim, though, or any of the recordings on Polish labels.
I can handle Panufnik but the Lutoslawski of the four symphonies defeats me, I am afraid!
My problem, I know :(
Not really a "problem". But perhaps you should try something other than the symphonies? How about Mi-parti?
But if even the 1st Symphony defeats you, then perhaps you really are beyond salvation... ;D Maybe just lay Lutoslawski aside for a while...
I thought this thread was about an Imax movie or something like that...
What? Almost 18 hours have gone by and no one has posted in the best GMG thread?
Wait, let me think of something...
Bruce, I expect some interesting thoughts from you after tonight's "concert"! ;) ;)
magic post
from magic dave
Quote from: Maciek on June 11, 2008, 04:25:53 PM
Not really a "problem". But perhaps you should try something other than the symphonies? How about Mi-parti?
But if even the 1st Symphony defeats you, then perhaps you really are beyond salvation... ;D Maybe just lay Lutoslawski aside for a while...
I like the Concerto for Orchestra. Does that count? :)
I really, really love Lutoslawski. My favorite discovery this past year.
The Lutoslawski 3rd conversation prompted me to get out what I had and listen to them last night...I have Luto's own, Wit and Salonen. I really think this is my favorite of his symphonies.
The Wit doesn't grab me quite as much in interpretation, there are details that get lost, yet there is nice character to the performance. Luto/BP are the only ones with good natural sounding recorded sound...something quite wonky is going on sound-wise in the Wit, like echoey.
I think the other two are about equal but different, Lutoslawski emphasizes the mysterious, silky qualities of writing in his piece, Salonen focuses on clarity and wit, with a more tightly wound, aggressive approach. Both are fine recordings. The Salonen disc also has the unusual work Les Espaces du Somneil for baritone and orchestra, and their great recording of the 4th (probably even better than the 3rd!) For some reason, listening to that recording Bartok comes to mind, playing up that angularity and spookiness a la Miraculous Mandarin. You can really hear the links between Lutoslawski and Bartok sometimes when exploring their output, besides in the Concerto for Orchestra.
I would really like to hear the Barenboim recording - I didn't realize the CSO is who commissioned the piece! Their Concerto for Orchestra I am really keen to hear, I like that work so much I'd like to start collecting different recordings of it.
I heard recently a broadcast of the Chicago SO in the Concerto under P. Jarvi, and it was awesome, really firey - a shame it sounds like Paavo's Cincy recording doesn't have that same bite. The sound clips I listened to sounded immaculate but too relaxed, too lukewarm.
Quote from: Dundonnell on June 12, 2008, 04:22:28 PM
I like the Concerto for Orchestra. Does that count? :)
Of course it does! You should have said that all along. I'm not worried anymore.
Greta, which Wit do you have, the late 1980s one or the Naxos (1990s? I think)?
Quote from: Greta on June 12, 2008, 07:21:31 PM
I really, really love Lutoslawski. My favorite discovery this past year.
The Lutoslawski 3rd conversation prompted me to get out what I had and listen to them last night...I have Luto's own, Wit and Salonen. I really think this is my favorite of his symphonies.
See how superb this is? I haven't met ANYBODY in Glasgow yet with whom I can discuss Lutoslawski. It's fantastic when someone says something like the above.
Quote from: mahler10th on June 13, 2008, 06:22:39 AM
See how superb this is? I haven't met ANYBODY in Glasgow yet with whom I can discuss Lutoslawski. It's fantastic when someone says something like the above.
Do the RSNO still do a contemporary music series? When I lived in Glasgow in the '90s I used to run into a lot of people with interesting music taste there. (Similarly with some of the more unusual programs that the BBCSSO played.)
Quote from: edward on June 13, 2008, 08:24:44 AM
Do the RSNO still do a contemporary music series? When I lived in Glasgow in the '90s I used to run into a lot of people with interesting music taste there. (Similarly with some of the more unusual programs that the BBCSSO played.)
The series still goes on, albeit no longer packaged as such (not to my knowledge anyway). But they are fairly progressive in their output, that's for sure. This Summer they've got something going on with Elvis Costello :-\. Yes, I do meet folk with a variety of interests and tastes in music, but...er...no-one who 'does' Lutoslawski yet. >:(
Quote from: mahler10th on June 13, 2008, 06:22:39 AM
See how superb this is? I haven't met ANYBODY in Glasgow yet with whom I can discuss Lutoslawski. It's fantastic when someone says something like the above.
I doubt Greta knows anybody in Texas with whom she can have a conversation about Lutoslawski.
I can just imagine...... "who? Coleslaw?"
Anyone ever seen the Zanussi documentary about Lutosławski (made for the BBC of course - the Polish TV didn't need one ::))?
No? I didn't think so.
It starts in Warsaw, with the film crew "on the streets" asking random people if they knew who Lutosławski was. All they get in reply is: Huh? ??? Then they happen to stop some British guy coming out of the Warsaw Airport - and he knows! ;D (I think it was shot in the 80s but don't remember exactly.)
:D
so "the streets" were in Poland, and the British guy knew? lol
probably would be even worse with Swedish composers...
Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on June 13, 2008, 11:21:26 AM
:D
so "the streets" were in Poland, and the British guy knew? lol
Yep, forgot to mention that - I'll add it to my description (of course, the British guy spoke in English ;D).
Quote from: Maciek on June 13, 2008, 11:16:17 AM
Anyone ever seen the Zanussi documentary about Lutosławski (made for the BBC of course - the Polish TV didn't need one ::))?
I would very much like to see that. I want to know about that man who has the temerity to alter my brain patterns and kick my ass before leaving me in a confused but wondered state.
No? I didn't think so.
It starts in Warsaw, with the film crew "on the streets" asking random people if they knew who Lutosławski was. All they get in reply is: Huh? ??? Then they happen to stop some British guy coming out of the Warsaw Airport - and he knows! ;D (I think it was shot in the 80s but don't remember exactly.)
I would very much like to see that, so I can browse the man who has the ability to alter my brainwaves, kick my ass, and leave me in a state of awe and wonder after he's done it.
It's very interesting - one of the greatest Polish filmmakers making a film about one of the greatest Polish composers (and privately they were on friendly terms even before the film was made).
Looking through various Polish sources I've managed to find this page (http://www.filmpolski.pl/fp/index.php/42861), which has all the credits (but they also have that on IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0176954/)). The year given here is 1990, but some other sites also give 1989. The title of the film is Witold Lutoslawski in Conversation with Krzysztof Zanussi (bit odd, shouldn't it be the other way around?). I'm almost certain I had it videotaped once (but it's in Polish!!), and the tape may still be alive, somewhere in my parents' house. Next time I'm there (won't be very soon) I'll take a look around. If I manage to find it, I might try to transfer it to the PC and post it on YouTube - but it will be in Polish, so not much of an attraction. ::)
Another site (http://www.filmweb.pl/o112266/Witold+Lutosławski) gives this as the Witold Lutosławski filmography (as himself), I'm leaving out the films where it says "archive footage":
1993: Outsider czyli portret Romana Maciejewskiego, kompozytora osobnego
1992: Owoc natchnienia
1990: Witold Lutosławski w rozmowie z Krzysztofem Zanussim (Witold Lutosławski in conversation with Krzysztof Zanussi)
All of them in Polish, as you can see. The first one (1993) is actually about another great Polish composer: Roman Maciejewski. I'm planning a big blog entry on him one of these days.
IMDb also lists a German film by Zanussi - but, oddly enough, it is exactly the same length as the BBC one, so I think someone needs to use Ockham's razor here... ;D
There's also a 2CD Polish Radio set with the 2nd CD devoted solely to interviews with Lutoslawski (many of them fascinating!).
(http://merlin.pl/Witold-Lutoslawski-w-Polskim-Radiu-Vol-1_Witold-Lutoslawski,images_big,12,PRCD181182-2.jpg)
But again, all in Polish.
And there's that nice book, Postscriptum.
(http://www.zeszytyliterackie.pl/shop/images/postscriptum.gif)
Yes, you guessed it - in Polish! ;D
To podobne do JA wola ma być nauczyć się Polski wtedy!
:o
Quote from: mahler10th on June 13, 2008, 02:24:12 PM
To podobne do JA wola ma być nauczyć się Polski wtedy!
:o
OK, but aren't you a bit concerned about saying things like that publicly, where everyone can hear...?? $:)
Quote from: Maciek on June 13, 2008, 02:54:01 PM
OK, but aren't you a bit concerned about saying things like that publicly, where everyone can hear...?? $:)
i think he insulted my Antarctican culture somewhere in there.......
It has just dawned on me that what you intended to say might have actually been:
"It looks like I'll have to learn Polish then"
Am I right?
But then, perhaps you wanted to say exactly what you did say... :-[
"It looks like I'll have to learn Polish then"
That is what I tried to say. Have I got it wrong? :-[
Quote from: mahler10th on June 13, 2008, 04:49:51 PM
"It looks like I'll have to learn Polish then"
That is what I tried to say. Have I got it wrong? :-[
What you wanted to say is this:
"Wygląda więc na to, że będę się musiał nauczyć polskiego..."
What you actually said is... not fit to print. 0:)
;D
Quote from: Maciek on June 14, 2008, 08:42:45 AM
What you wanted to say is this:
"Wygląda więc na to, że będę się musiał nauczyć polskiego..."
What you actually said is... not fit to print. 0:)
;D
Online translation services are perhaps like professional Classical Music reviewers. They tell you what you should say but mean something different altogether.
:-[
OK, enough of the suspense. What you said wasn't actually improper - it was simply garbled nonsense. But once I figured out what the original English sentence was - it turned out to be very funny. Here is what the program did. It took the sentence "It looks like I'll have to learn Polish then" and cut it up like this:
It
looks like
I
will
have
to [be]
[to] learn
Polish
then
And then it translated each word separately, ignoring the context completely:
It = to (literal meaning: 'this')
looks like = podobne do ('is similar to')
I = ja ('I')
will = wola (the noun 'will', as in The World as Will and Representation)
have = ma ('he/she has')
to [be?] = być ('to be')
[to] learn = nauczyć się ('to learn')
Polish = Polski ('of Poland')
then = wtedy ('at that time')
To podobne do JA wola ma być nauczyć się Polski wtedy! = This is similar to I will has to be to learn of Poland at that time!
Until recently I actually worked at a place where the algorithms for these sort of translating programs are prepared but ours was much, much better! 8)
Quote from: Maciek on June 14, 2008, 09:00:23 AM
OK, enough of the suspense. What you said wasn't actually improper - it was simply garbled nonsense. But once I figured out what the original English sentence was - it turned out to be very funny. Here is what the program did. It took the sentence "It looks like I'll have to learn Polish then" and cut it up like this:
It
looks like
I
will
have
to [be]
[to] learn
Polish
then
And then it translated each word separately, ignoring the context completely:
It = to (literal meaning: 'this')
looks like = podobne do ('is similar to')
I = ja ('I')
will = wola (the noun 'will', as in The World as Will and Representation)
have = ma ('he/she has')
to [be?] = być ('to be')
[to] learn = nauczyć się ('to learn')
Polish = Polski ('of Poland')
then = wtedy ('at that time')
To podobne do JA wola ma być nauczyć się Polski wtedy! = This is similar to I will has to be to learn of Poland at that time!
Until recently I actually worked at a place where the algorithms for these sort of translating programs are prepared but ours was much, much better! 8)
check this out:
http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Babel_fish
hehehe
dang...... some of those letters i forgot how to pronounce.
Hilarious! Better even than the guide of hitch-hiker of the galaxy! ;D
Topping part. Long ago so delightfully not ubawiłem!
In keeping with my earlier promise, with the help of poltran.com (http://www.poltran.com):
I think , if (or) make such small fun in (to) zgadywanie several samples ( ) different polish work mp3. It can be from different epochs, then, century (age) can be from one most eager XX ( ). What on it ?
[Zastanawiam się, czy nie zrobić takiej małej zabawy w zgadywanie: kilka próbek (mp3) różnych polskich utworów. Może być z różnych epok, może być z jednej (wtedy najchętniej XX wiek). Co wy na to?]
Well, when robots eventually become influential in the society of the future, at least we know translation jobs will be safe.
What on it?
Well, for starters, 'it can be from different epochs...' and perhaps in our case '...can be from one most eager.' See? It's all making prfect sense now.
:-\
THE MAGIC OF THE POLES QUIZ
(guess the piece, or at least try to get the composer ;D)
I suggest small fun. Twenty fragments of one-one-minute (one--minute) work are placed below, famous polish composers are authors which (who). They let's try (let's taste) work zgadnąć or at least surnames of composers. Who first, this better, but certainly < obvious > has no points etc., so, everything it is possible on foreign answer ( not looking (look) ) zgadywać. I wish you good fun. I played excellently compiling quiz.
(remember, you don't have to listen using the embedded player - you can also download the files directly by clicking the small... "calculator"?/"mp3 player"? button on the right side of the player)
Part A
A01
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/A01.mp3[/mp3]
A02
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/A02.mp3[/mp3]
A03
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/A03.mp3[/mp3]
A04
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/A04.mp3[/mp3]
A05
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/A05.mp3[/mp3]
A06
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/A06.mp3[/mp3]
A07
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/A07.mp3[/mp3]
A08
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/A08.mp3[/mp3]
A09
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/A09.mp3[/mp3]
A10
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/A10.mp3[/mp3]
I would like to thank www.poltran.com (http://www.poltran.com/) for their assistance in compiling the rules of this quiz.
Part B
B01
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/B01.mp3[/mp3]
B02
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/B02.mp3[/mp3]
B03
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/B03.mp3[/mp3]
B04
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/B04.mp3[/mp3]
B05
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/B05.mp3[/mp3]
B06
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/B06.mp3[/mp3]
B07
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/B07.mp3[/mp3]
B08
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/B08.mp3[/mp3]
B09
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/B09.mp3[/mp3]
B10
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/B10.mp3[/mp3]
And as a bonus ;D - Part C (should've been called B, really - you'll know what I mean ;D):
C01
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/C01.mp3[/mp3]
C02
[mp3=200,20,0,left]http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/25/1381505/GMG%20Magic%20Poles%20Quiz/C02.mp3[/mp3]
So, how are you liking my "small fun" ("little game" would perhaps make more sense ;D)?
Let me know if you need a tip or two. There are some big names in there! I'd say at least three of the composers are very famous, and at least one is super-mega-famous (or, in fact, two of them are). And then there are more than a couple famous ones. And the remaining lot are, well, known. ;D
Quote from: Maciek on June 19, 2008, 04:47:54 PM
So, how are you liking my "small fun" ("little game" would perhaps make more sense ;D)?
Let me know if you need a tip or two. There are some big names in there! I'd say at least three of the composers are very famous, and at least one is super-mega-famous (or, in fact, two of them are). And then there are more than a couple famous ones. And the remaining lot are, well, known. ;D
I don't know how to play it. Where do we put the answers. Do we post them here?
Sure thing - that's what I intended. This is supposed to be similar to the 20th century music quizes that Greta and James posted recently. But the rules are... there are no rules. ;D
the only one i know is A9- Gorecki. My first guess is the first symphony, though i'm not 100% sure.
I can't wait to find out the others!
Górecki it is!! :D :D :D
But not the 1st Symphony - though obviously something from thereabouts (but a different decade).
(EDIT: He's one of the very famous ones, BTW - just to give you an idea what I had in mind when I called them that.)
Here's a sort of general hint, to get you guys going.
Try to spot the following composers: Bach (!), Chopin, Lutosławski, Penderecki.
From there - it should all go downhill (in more sense then one >:D ;D).
Remind me never to post this sort of thing at the end of the week... ::)
Would it be any sort of clue if I said I would be very, very, very, very much impressed if someone just dropped in here and, right off, guessed which clip the Lutosławski is? In other words: the Lutosławski should be the one you would never have expected him to have written! ;)
Quote from: QUDSIYA ZAHER on June 21, 2008, 02:58:44 AM
Would it be any sort of clue if I said I would be very, very, very, very much impressed if someone just dropped in here and, right off, guessed which clip the Lutosławski is? In other words: the Lutosławski should be the one you would never have expected him to have written! ;)
Unfortunately, these clips won't play on my computer. However, from this comment I'm guessing the Lutoslawski work is
Interlude. ;)
Nice try, and I see what you mean - but that is still way off. :o ;D (Interlude is one of my Lutoslawski favorites, BTW 8))
Anyway, did you try downloading the clips (by pressing the "download" button at the right end of the player)? I could always upload them to mediafire.
Well, after listening through A batch I can pretty positively say that none of them is Chopin. 0:)
Embedded player doesn't work for me as well.
Could you remove smiley from your sig? Totally wussifies what is generally super cool signature.
Quote from: Drasko on June 21, 2008, 04:00:43 PM
Well, after listening through A batch I can pretty positively say that none of them is Chopin. 0:)
That is correct. 8) I might as well reveal that the A batch is more or less 20th century, and the B batch 19th century. There is a
bit of an overlap - some of the B batch goes quite far into the 20th century, but they are all generally composers
somehow associated with the 19th century.
Quote
Embedded player doesn't work for me as well.
Oh, the damn thing! >:( I'm uploading the clips (zipped) to mediafire while we chat - will post the links in a sec.
Quote
Could you remove smiley from your sig? Totally wussifies what is generally super cool signature.
;D ;D ;D That's a hilarious way to say it! And thanks. It's gone now, of course. Can't disappoint my fans. ;) (It's ironic by the way - I added the smiley as an afterthought, fearing maybe the sig was irritating - and it turned out to be the other way around ;D)
Here are the zipped files:
batch A (http://www.mediafire.com/?jbkmjen2jlx) 20 MB
batch B (http://www.mediafire.com/?nggdjyoy8z8) 20.01 MB
batch C (http://www.mediafire.com/?uombb7j2jxx) 3.88 MB
ok, the Gorecki is actually the 2nd symphony, first movement.
that's the only one i know, though, hopefully someone else can get another one.
Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on June 22, 2008, 06:29:49 AM
ok, the Gorecki is actually the 2nd symphony, first movement.
It's not! :o
Now you got me curious - I'll have relisten to the 2nd
carefully.
Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on June 22, 2008, 06:29:49 AM
that's the only one i know
Greg, did you listen to batch C or are you just sticking to 20th century batch A?
Well, I know some people have listened to the clips, and some have downloaded them, so I suppose a few pointers won't hurt:
the A batch - these are all 20th century composers
A01 - the brother of this composer was also a composer, but of a different nationality!
A02 - this is a piece of incidental music
A03 - born at the end of the 19th century, this composer was Poland's foremost neoclassicist, and then, near the end of his life, his music took a surprising turn, and he became a foremost post-Webernian
A04 - this is from a mass; AFAIK, the only one this composer of only a few concert pieces has written
A05 - born a year later than A03 (and still in the 19th century), this composer was a friend of Stravinsky and wrote one of his first biographies
A06 - a member of the "Stalowa Wola generation"
A07 - this composer has written lots of religious oratorios, masses etc., and this is one of them
A08 - my recent screen moniker had something to do with this composer
A09 - as Greg correctly identified, this is an orchestral piece by Górecki; from the 1960s
A10 - might be the most famous Polish mass for the dead
the B batch - 19th century composers, or first half of the 20th century at most
B01 - politician
B02 - mountain-climber
B03 - virtuoso pianist who played a double-keyboard piano
B04 - often accused of being too obsessed with form and not being melodic enough
B05 - actually lived past 1950, but was always a very much late-19th century composer
B06 - the piece, and others like it, are considered by many (including some on this board) to be a very poor effort in the genre (the first half of the clip shows an example of his worst, supposedly)
B07 - wrote 2 pieces in this genre, and both received several awards in their time
B08 - this composer is usually associated with tone poems, but this actually appears to be his best known piece in Poland
B09 - died in the 1940s, refused to adopt a modern musical idiom; seemingly doomed to obscurity, has been experiencing a revival over the last couple of years, especially abroad
B10 - this composer's only larger piece of purely symphonic writing
the C batch - hm, I don't think I should be saying anything just yet; I'm certain most GMGers know at least the partial answer to these; I think the lack of answers means no has simply reached this point just yet
I have downloaded but not yet listened. I'll try get a chance later. :-[
Quote from: Maciek on June 22, 2008, 10:58:02 AM
It's not! :o
Now you got me curious - I'll have relisten to the 2nd carefully.
ok, i relistened to the clip more carefully and realize it isn't.
The part of the 2nd symphony that it reminds me of is the bad part of the symphony where it has brass sounds like crickets that last WAYYYYYYYYY too long. I mean, 10 seconds at the most, but what was it, like 30 seconds? At least?
But honestly, I don't really know which one it is! Probably it's something i haven't even heard yet! :o
I have no clue, what is it?
A7- is it Penderecki? Polish Requiem?
(just a wild guess there)
i'm sure i've heard a couple of these before, but aren't familiar with them enough to say.....
Greg, you have a very good "composer detector"! ;) It is Penderecki indeed, not the Requiem though.
B02
When I saw 'mountain-climber' I knew at once this was a wry reference to Karlowicz (who fell to his death in the Tatra mountains...). It's his Violin Concerto.
I'm glad you got that one, Johan! Let's face it - it had to be you. ;D
BTW, "mountain-climber" wasn't meant mockingly at all! 0:) Karłowicz was an excellent taternik ("Tatra alpinist" - if that's not a sort of oxymoron ;)). Some of his achievements: first climb of the Wielka Kołowa Turnia (1907), first climb of the Ciężka Turnia from the NE (1908), first winter climbs of Wołoszyn, Żółta Turnia, and Kościelec (1908) - where he would eventually die. (I'm pilfering all this data from the Polish Wikipedia.)
Similarly, there's no irony in calling A01 "politician", as he was indeed one of the finest Polish politicians of those times!
Quote from: Maciek on June 23, 2008, 12:43:43 PM
I'm glad you got that one, Johan! Let's face it - it had to be you. ;D
Similarly, there's no irony in calling A01 "politician", as he was indeed one of the finest Polish politicians of those times!
The only Pole who combines music with politics I can think of at once is Paderewski (and I have never heard any of his music)!
Bingo! :D ("A genius, who also knows to play the piano", as Saint-Saens is reported to have said.)
See? It's not as difficult as at first it seemed!
Did'n't check the other ones, yet, because the first one concerns someone we discussed before:
A01 - the brother of this composer was also a composer, but of a different nationality!
Grażyna Bacewicz (1909-1969) had an older brother, Vytautas BACEVIČIUS (1905-1970). He was born in Łódź too, but he became a citizen of the young Lithuanian republic, and consequently his second name was spelled in the Lithuanian purists' fashon. This rather recent CD of his music was reviewed at Musicweb:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/June07/Bacevicius_TOCC0049.htm
(http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2007/June07/Bacevicius_TOCC0049.jpg)
Quote from: Maciek on June 23, 2008, 11:56:29 AM
Greg, you have a very good "composer detector"! ;) It is Penderecki indeed, not the Requiem though.
Well, he once said that once you hear or look at a score of his, right away you can tell it's a Penderecki score. :D
I have no idea which one it is, though, I probably never heard it, or haven't listened to it enough to recognize it.
I'd be ashamed if it were the 7th or 8 symphonies or the St.Luke Passion.
Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on June 24, 2008, 08:58:12 AM
I'd be ashamed if it were the 7th or 8 symphonies or the St.Luke Passion.
You can calm down. It's none of these. :)
I'll try to sum up:
batch A (http://www.mediafire.com/?jbkmjen2jlx) 20 MB
batch B (http://www.mediafire.com/?nggdjyoy8z8) 20.01 MB
batch C (http://www.mediafire.com/?uombb7j2jxx) 3.88 MB
(or stream through embedded player in this (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,7936.msg197706.html#msg197706)and the next two posts)
A - pieces from the 20th century
A01 - Grażyna Bacewicz - ???
A02 - this is a piece of incidental music
A03 - born at the end of the 19th century, this composer was Poland's foremost neoclassicist, and then, near the end of his life, his music took a surprising turn, and he became a foremost post-Webernian
A04 - this is from a mass; AFAIK, the only one this composer of only a few concert pieces has written
A05 - born a year later than A03 (and still in the 19th century), this composer was a friend of Stravinsky and wrote one of his first biographies
A06 - a member of the "Stalowa Wola generation"
A07 - Krzysztof Penderecki - Credo (not the Polish Requiem, not the 7th or 8th Symphony, not St. Luke's Passion, not Dies Irae; a fairly recent work - listen to the set of instruments to narrow down your choices!)[/s]
A08 - my recent screen moniker had something to do with this composer
A09 - Henryk Mikołaj Górecki - Refrain ??? (a piece from the 1960s, not the 1st Symphony, and not the 2nd Symphony)
A10 - might be the most famous Polish mass for the dead
B - (mostly) 19th century
B01 - Ignacy Jan Paderewski - Polish Fantasy
B02 - Mieczysław Karłowicz - Violin Concerto
B03 - virtuoso pianist who played a double-keyboard piano
B04 - often accused of being too obsessed with form and not being melodic enough
B05 - actually lived past 1950, but was always a very much late-19th century composer
B06 - the piece, and others like it, are considered by many (including some on this board) to be a very poor effort in the genre (the first half of the clip shows an example of his worst, supposedly)
B07 - wrote 2 pieces in this genre, and both received several awards in their time
B08 - this composer is usually associated with tone poems, but this actually appears to be his best known piece in Poland
B09 - died in the 1940s, refused to adopt a modern musical idiom; seemingly doomed to obscurity, has been experiencing a revival over the last couple of years, especially abroad
B10 - this composer's only larger piece of purely symphonic writing
C - ???
We've still got the Chopin and Lutosławski (not the Interlude) to track down! Given the amount of clues, I think the Lutosławski should be quite easy by now?
the Gorecki is probably Scontri........
and the Penderecki could be anything. Is it an opera? He's written so much vocal music. Paradise Lost?
Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on June 25, 2008, 10:30:57 AM
the Gorecki is probably Scontri........
Not Scontri, but we're getting closer. ;D It's something from the
mid 60s.
Quote
and the Penderecki could be anything. Is it an opera? He's written so much vocal music. Paradise Lost?
Not an opera. A setting of a liturgical text.
Quote from: Maciek on June 25, 2008, 10:46:59 AM
Not Scontri, but we're getting closer. ;D It's something from the mid 60s.
Not an opera. A setting of a liturgical text.
The
Dies Irae, perhaps? (I'm not a fan of that particular work, to be honest.)
Nope. Remember those are clues to two different works. The Gorecki is from the mid 60s. The Penderecki is much more recent. In fact, I think it might be his last work of that sort - but I'm not 100% sure.
I've just looked through my clues for the A batch, and I'm positive the Lutoslawski can be got by dint of "disciplined elimination". ;D
Quote from: Maciek on June 25, 2008, 02:01:37 PM
Nope. Remember those are clues to two different works. The Gorecki is from the mid 60s. The Penderecki is much more recent. In fact, I think it might be his last work of that sort - but I'm not 100% sure.
Clearly I really need to get around to downloading. Oops.
Quote from: Maciek on June 25, 2008, 10:46:59 AM
Not Scontri, but we're getting closer. ;D It's something from the mid 60s.
Refrain?
Quote from: Maciek on June 25, 2008, 10:46:59 AM
Not an opera. A setting of a liturgical text.
Either:
Hymn to St. Daniil (1997)
or
Hymn to St. Adalbert (1997)
Quote from: edward on June 25, 2008, 02:05:26 PM
Clearly I really need to get around to downloading. Oops.
Well, you've been doing pretty well all the same. But downloading might help
a bit, yes. ;)
Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on June 25, 2008, 02:53:04 PM
Refrain?
There! You nailed it! 8) Used to be a favorite of mine for a long time. Right now - I'm not so sure. Haven't listened to
all of it in quite a while.
Quote
Either:
Hymn to St. Daniil (1997)
or
Hymn to St. Adalbert (1997)
No. But I'll lead you through this step by step. For some reason, I'm feeling guilty that my clues aren't "easy" enough, but I won't let you off that easy. ;) After all - he's a favorite composer of yours, isn't he? ;D
You already know that:
1) It's by Penderecki.
2) It's fairly recent (say, written after 1990).
Now, you should listen to the clip once more,
very attentively, and take note of the scoring. Now, there is one instrument there that he has used only once "recently". All you will need is a web page with a catalog of his works containing scoring information - the Schott page or the Polish Wikipedia might work, if you can deal with the German/Polish terminology (I know you like that kind of thing 8)). I can't find anything appropriate in English - the PMC page is out of date. :-\
Will it entice anyone to join in, if I say that there will be prizes? 8) And not just for correct guesses either. :D So - it's worth a shot, for the heck of it.
Ha, that was smart, wasn't it? I seem to have driven everyone away! :'( :'( :'(
Quote from: Maciek on June 25, 2008, 03:55:17 PM
After all - he's a favorite composer of yours, isn't he? ;D
yes he is, a top 10 composer for me 0:)
he can charm my ears and move me in whichever way he likes, in any style (and i mean, he has some VERY different and numerous styles he writes in :o ), but all of it's just awesome. Whether it's the 3rd symphony that just sends you into a deep trance filled with deep sadness and yearning mixed together (very close, as someone has said before, to Mahler) or the fun Old Style Pieces or the banging 2nd Symphony, the experimental and challenging 1st Symphony, the mystically transcendent modern Choros I, or the String Quartets which are pretty undescribable, yet mean a lot to me personally.......
Quote from: Maciek on June 25, 2008, 03:55:17 PM
You already know that:
1) It's by Penderecki.
2) It's fairly recent (say, written after 1990).
Now, you should listen to the clip once more, very attentively, and take note of the scoring. Now, there is one instrument there that he has used only once "recently". All you will need is a web page with a catalog of his works containing scoring information - the Schott page or the Polish Wikipedia might work, if you can deal with the German/Polish terminology (I know you like that kind of thing 8)). I can't find anything appropriate in English - the PMC page is out of date. :-\
i might take a while to get that one...... i go to schott and it looks like you have to order the catalogue to get the list of works. I thought before you could just browse, but maybe that was another publisher.
i see what you mean by the PMC being out of date :P
Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on June 26, 2008, 01:53:23 PM
i might take a while to get that one......
Hey, don't worry! I'm here to help (see, I really want you, or anyone, to actually
guess this one). 8)
Quotei go to schott and it looks like you have to order the catalogue to get the list of works. I thought before you could just browse, but maybe that was another publisher.
What I meant was this (http://www.schott-musik.de/shop/products/search/by_person/featured/result.html?order=relevanz&lastOrder=relevanz&Quick=&Fulltext=&SER=&WRK=&ZUS=&REIHE_NAME=&ClientOrderNumber=&Title=&Word=&Instrumentation=&ID_TON=&compYearFrom=&compYearTo=&Person=&ID_ASGA=&ID_MDA=&ID_PKAT=1&ID_SK=&ID_KAT=&ID_KATR=&ID_KATUR=&Leihwerk=&country_id=&composerBirthFrom=&composerBirthTo=&composerDeathFrom=&composerDeathTo=&composerIsAlive=&composerProvenanceCountry_id=&composerSex=&durationMinutesFrom=&durationMinutesTo=&ID_PERS=14696&ID_VERLGRP=&page=0&hitsPerPage=20&lastNumResults=86¬Phonetic=false&searchQueryID=SQID_4864123393850&maxPage=0&maxHitsPerPage=20&searchMode=SM_DISCOGRAPHY&narrowed_MDA=&narrowed_hire=&order=titel&hitsPerPage=100)page - it's not the complete catalog, but it contains the piece you're looking for (I don't know any German, I just got there by some random clicking, LOL).
Quote from: Maciek on June 26, 2008, 02:08:50 PM
Hey, don't worry! I'm here to help (see, I really want you, or anyone, to actually guess this one). 8)
What I meant was this (http://www.schott-musik.de/shop/products/search/by_person/featured/result.html?order=relevanz&lastOrder=relevanz&Quick=&Fulltext=&SER=&WRK=&ZUS=&REIHE_NAME=&ClientOrderNumber=&Title=&Word=&Instrumentation=&ID_TON=&compYearFrom=&compYearTo=&Person=&ID_ASGA=&ID_MDA=&ID_PKAT=1&ID_SK=&ID_KAT=&ID_KATR=&ID_KATUR=&Leihwerk=&country_id=&composerBirthFrom=&composerBirthTo=&composerDeathFrom=&composerDeathTo=&composerIsAlive=&composerProvenanceCountry_id=&composerSex=&durationMinutesFrom=&durationMinutesTo=&ID_PERS=14696&ID_VERLGRP=&page=0&hitsPerPage=20&lastNumResults=86¬Phonetic=false&searchQueryID=SQID_4864123393850&maxPage=0&maxHitsPerPage=20&searchMode=SM_DISCOGRAPHY&narrowed_MDA=&narrowed_hire=&order=titel&hitsPerPage=100)page - it's not the complete catalog, but it contains the piece you're looking for (I don't know any German, I just got there by some random clicking, LOL).
Ok, my guesses are....... all of them on that page. Ha! See, i told ya i could get it. ;)
Hmmmmm ok ok i'll narrow it down. My first guess is Credo. I think I might have it on CD, either that or i've listened to it on my computer and deleted it. But obviously, i haven't heard it for a very long time.
Quote from: GGGGRRREEG on June 26, 2008, 02:34:52 PM
My first guess is Credo.
There, see? I told you you could do it! 8)
The only piece with a children's choir he has written in ages - AFAIK.
Quote from: Maciek on June 26, 2008, 02:39:13 PM
There, see? I told you you could do it! 8)
The only piece with a children's choir he has written in ages - AFAIK.
Yeah, well the 9th symphony is going to be scored for 15 children's choirs, a canon, mute guy, elephant, dancing leper, 6 chainsaws, zebra in heat, dead guy, meteor shower, and 7 1/2 electric toothbrushes, so i think he's making somewhat of a comeback with the children's choir thing.
Quote from: Maciek on June 25, 2008, 08:52:36 AM
B01 - Ignacy Jan Paderewski - ? ? ?
A minor Piano Concerto?
No.
And that, in practice, means I've given the answer away. ;D
Quote from: Drasko on June 27, 2008, 08:37:11 AM
A minor Piano Concerto?
I think his concerto is major, particularly as played by Earl Wild.
Well, OK, as far as Paderewski is concerned, it's even the major Piano Concerto, as he has written only one. ;D
Quote from: Maciek on June 27, 2008, 10:20:56 AM
No.
Then
Fantaisie polonaise sur des thèmes originaux, op.19, now, you were mentioning prizes, no?
So Maciek, sorry, Qudsiya - is it Chopin or Szopen?
Quote from: Drasko on June 27, 2008, 01:09:56 PM
Then Fantaisie polonaise sur des thèmes originaux, op.19
Yes.
Quote
, now, you were mentioning prizes, no?
Yes. (Be patient.)
Quote from: M forever on June 27, 2008, 08:30:42 PM
So Maciek, sorry, Qudsiya - is it Chopin or Szopen?
No.
Quote from: Maciek on June 28, 2008, 02:38:02 PM
No.
That's not an answer (well, technically, it is, but it is not a reply which actually answers the question).
OK then: yes.
Alright, if you want my answer: I've never seen the spelling Szopen used in English. In Polish it's completely outdated (therefore odd and funny), though not incorrect.
Couldn't you all at least pretend? ::)
Hmph! :-X
batch A (http://www.mediafire.com/?jbkmjen2jlx) 20 MB
batch B (http://www.mediafire.com/?nggdjyoy8z8) 20.01 MB
batch C (http://www.mediafire.com/?uombb7j2jxx) 3.88 MB
(or stream through embedded player in this (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,7936.msg197706.html#msg197706)and the next two posts)
A - pieces from the 20th century
A01 - Grażyna Bacewicz - ??
A02 - this is a piece of incidental music
A03 - born at the end of the 19th century, this composer was Poland's foremost neoclassicist, and then, near the end of his life, his music took a surprising turn, and he became a foremost post-Webernian; has very short complete catalog of pieces
A04 - this is from a mass; AFAIK, the only one this composer of lots of film music has written
A05 - born a year later than A03 (and still in the 19th century), this composer was a friend of Stravinsky and wrote one of his first biographies
A06 - a member of the "Stalowa Wola generation"; does a lot of conducting nowadays
A07 - Krzysztof Penderecki - Credo
A08 - my recent screen moniker had something to do with this composer; there was a festival devoted solely to his music in Warsaw in 2006
A09 - Henryk Mikołaj Górecki - Refrain
A10 - might be the most famous Polish mass for the dead - heck, practically the only relatively well known one!
B - (mostly) 19th century
B01 - Ignacy Jan Paderewski - Polish Fantasy
B02 - Mieczysław Karłowicz - Violin Concerto
B03 - virtuoso pianist who played a double-keyboard piano, one of Liszt's favorite students
B04 - often accused of being too obsessed with form and not being melodic enough; his son, a doctor, was probably Poland's most famous translator - he singlehandedly transalted the bulk of the French canon (complete Moliere, Proust, most of Balzac, Voltaire etc. etc. etc.)
B05 - actually lived past 1950, but was always a very much late-19th century composer; this comes from a ballet score of his, which was probably his most popular piece - gained immense popularity before the war, an astonishing number of performances (don't remember the exact number right now)
B06 - the piece, and others like it, are considered by many (including some on this board) to be a very poor effort in the genre (the first half of the clip shows an example of his worst, supposedly); the very famous singer in this recording is a champion of this composer, she has recorded his songs at least 3 times
B07 - wrote 2 pieces in this genre, and both received several awards in their time; both have been recently released by Hyperion.
B08 - this composer is usually associated with tone poems (first Polish efforts in that genre), but this orchestral miniature actually appears to be his best known piece in Poland
B09 - died in the 1940s, refused to adopt a modern musical idiom; seemingly doomed to obscurity, has been experiencing a revival over the last couple of years, especially abroad, thanks to a disc of piano concertos, and then another one, with solo piano music; both on Hyperion
B10 - this composer's only larger piece of purely symphonic writing; it was in its time (mid-19th century) quite popular in Russia
C - ?? (somebody is kidding me...)
The Chopin and Lutoslawski are still up for grabs! :o ??? ??? ???
This quiz was too hard for me. The magic of the Poles was too overwhelming to fathom the mystery composers. Meanwhile I'll keep playing the brainwave transforming stuff and continue to wobble in the most unusual ways to Karol Szymanowski, Witold Lutosławski, Andrzej Panufnik, Henryk Mikołaj Górecki, Paweł Szymański, Sebastian Krajewski and even Maurucy Moszkowski, most or all of whom probably feature in the answers to Macieks' quiz.
Sorry Maciek, I can't get my head around it - I think too much Lutoslawski has sent me too far nto the other dimension(s) to figure out the answers.
What, not even the C batch? This is a bit worrying.
Somebody has to have some sort of idea about the two pieces in the C batch?! ???
Wait, but what about the clues? You should be easily able to guess which one the Lutoslawski is using clues alone! Simply eliminate from the A batch all the pieces that can't be Lutoslawski. ;) Also, I've added some significant information to the B batch clues (in red). And I think two of the earlier clues are really telling:
Quote from: Maciek on July 02, 2008, 02:13:56 AM
B - (mostly) 19th century
B08 - this composer is usually associated with tone poems (first Polish efforts in that genre), but this orchestral miniature actually appears to be his best known piece in Poland
B10 - this composer's only larger piece of purely symphonic writing; it was in its time (mid-19th century) quite popular in Russia
Substitute "symphonic" for "tone" in the first clue, and Wikipedia should give you the answer... ;D
Curses.
I will download the darn things again and when get some peace and quiet tonight I will embark on a quest of discovery. Fair enough, with so many clues going and some of them already solved, I would be surprised if I didn't come up with some after all. :P
Quote from: mahler10th on July 14, 2008, 05:16:18 AM
Curses.
I will download the darn things again and when get some peace and quiet tonight I will embark on a quest of discovery. Fair enough, with so many clues going and some of them already solved, I would be surprised if I didn't come up with some after all. :P
Well, I'm already feeling a bit guilty since they might, after all, turn out a bit more difficult than I am imagining. :-\ But let's hope not. :D And if they do - I'll just expand the clues and make them less vague. 8)
I'm really,
really surprised by the complete silence about batch C, though... ???
From a review of Penderecki's 8th Symphony by Martin Anderson in 'Tempo'-A Quarterly Review of Modern Music(respected British journal edited by Calum(Malcolm) MacDonald):
"Krzysztof Pendrecki's Eight Symphony, a 50-minute orchestral song cycle entitled Lieder der Verganglichkeit('Songs of Transience') received its UK premiere on 28 February 2008(the first performance was in Luxembourg in 2003); the fine soloists were Heidi Grant Murphy(soprano), Agnieska Rehlis(mezzo-soprano) and Roderick Williams(baritone); the BBC Symphony Chorus, also in good voice, and Orchestra were under the baton of its chief conductor Jiri Belohlavek. It has been a while now since anything by Penderecki impressed me as having something new to say, and Lieder der Verganglichkeit was the same self-indulgent post-Mahlerian borscht as he has been
producing over the past two decades or more. The debt to Mahler is immediately audible, with strings pushed high and low, the middle registers conspicuously empty. Dark brass reinforced a predictable sense of gloom: the work sets texts by Goethe, Rilke, Eichendorff and other German poets on man's destructive impact on the environment with the kind of worthy sentimentality typical of the Greenpeace spokespeople on TV news bulletins earnestly foretelling imminent catastrophe. Documenting the detail of the 12 individual songs which make up the score would serve little more purpose than to catalogue Penderecki's continual misjudgements: near-permanent over-scoring, vocal lines written for the parts of the voice where they are bound to fail to project, dramatic gestures undermined because of lack of contrast with the surroundings, inability to generate and sustain harmonic tension, use of the texts as mere hooks for featureless declamation rather than elements with rhythms and colours of their own-I could go on, but there's no point in your being as bored as I was."
Guess he didn't like it then :)
Penderecki does divide the critics doesn't he and he does inspire some ferocious dislike these days!
Evaluation of Penderecki's 8th aside (I think it is actually one of his best neo-romantic pieces - and one of the only two I actually enjoy), what really intrigues me is the use of the word borscht as a metaphor for something uninteresting, bland and rather colorless (if I understand the writers intentions correctly)! Now, I could hardly think of a notion more ridiculous than that! There are only two explanations I can think of: 1) the author has never had borscht (any sort of it, as there are at least 3 very different "families" of borscht), has no idea what it is, just picked up the word at random, as one singnifying something vaguely connected with "Polishness" (though it's not really a specifically Polish soup); 2) these are standard English associations (connotations) the word borscht conjures? (As far as I remember, but it's been quite a while since I delved into "language relativity" and semantics, the connotations of the word "soup" are quite, quite varied between languages.)
(BTW, borscht - now that's what I call ridiculous transcription! ;D)
Quote from: Maciek on July 14, 2008, 04:21:15 PM
I think it is actually one of his best neo-romantic pieces - and one of the only two I actually enjoy.
Agreed here. Which is the other? For me it would be the sextet.
I also sort of have time for the clarinet quartet, string trio and--because I enjoy its outrageous poor taste--the second symphony.
Random off-topic aside: the bookstore at the university my wife teaches at has two copies of the superb Kofman recording of Lutoslawski's 2nd ... which have been up for sale at $4 for over a year with no takers. ??? ??? ???
For me it would be the Credo. I've never really managed to "get into" Penderecki's chamber pieces - and that includes the first two quartets! With maybe Der Unterbrochene Gedanke as an exception - admirable self-restraint in someone habitually so self-indulgent!
I don't think that Kofman recording ever sold very well...? Maybe it came too late? No one cares about Lutoslawski's 2nd anymore - everyone thinks since it hadn't been done properly up to a certain point, then it probably just can't be done, what's the use trying. ;)
Hm, I'm thinking maybe a decent, detailed post about the various types and tastes of borscht would be in order now...
Confession Time:
as someone who never could get into the music Penderecki wrote prior to around 1980, who found works like the Symphony No.1 or the Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima too difficult, I do actually like Penderecki's neo-romantic works of the last two decades. The savage critical response to many of these works suggests that the critics actually feel that Penderecki had betrayed them personally as well as betraying his own musical integrity.
So what if the Symphony No.2 sounds Brucknerian? So does Rautavaara's Third Symphony. He doesn't seem to have been torn to pieces for a radical change in musical direction. Frankly, I don't care what the critics thinks!
By "critics" do you mean professional music critics, or simply people who are critical of Penderecki? Because I don't think they are one and the same group. In fact, I'm under the impression many (most?) critics are enthusiastic about post-1980 Penderecki, no? I mean his career is flourishing, his discs sell, he gets commissions all the time. Somebody has to be fueling all that interest! ;)
I was also disappointed by the Penderecki Eighth, which shows the danger of a composer indulging in the new religion of environmentalism and forgetting that music should not be about political correctness: it needs to be about itself. This allows atheists to enjoy religious works by e.g. Bach, Bruckner, etc. while ignoring the story or message.
Having been away for some weeks, I thought at first the topic was about the University of Krakow, where Magic was taught during the Middle Ages. :o
Quote from: Maciek on July 16, 2008, 05:14:35 AM
By "critics" do you mean professional music critics, or simply people who are critical of Penderecki? Because I don't think they are one and the same group. In fact, I'm under the impression many (most?) critics are enthusiastic about post-1980 Penderecki, no? I mean his career is flourishing, his discs sell, he gets commissions all the time. Somebody has to be fueling all that interest! ;)
I meant the British professional music critics whose reviews of Penderecki's music adorn the pages of the journals that I read. For reasons which are not clear to me the editors of these British journals continually ask hostile critics to review new releases of Penderecki's music. Professor Arnold Whittall of King's College, London, for example, seems to be the person the 'Gramophone' magazine always turns to if there is a new Penderecki disc out. Then we get the same old refrain-"Penderecki has written nothing of value since 1980".
Quote from: Cato on July 16, 2008, 05:56:13 AM
I was also disappointed by the Penderecki Eighth, which shows the danger of a composer indulging in the new religion of environmentalism and forgetting that music should not be about political correctness: it needs to be about itself.
I don't think that's the case at all! At least not in my experience of the work - but then, I didn't bother with the texts at all (I hardly ever do :-[). In fact, I'm not even all that certain if I even know what the texts are. ::) ;D
Quotethe University of Krakow, where Magic was taught during the Middle Ages. :o
Heh, heh. Isn't it still?
Quote from: Dundonnell on July 16, 2008, 06:02:47 AM
I meant the British professional music critics whose reviews of Penderecki's music adorn the pages of the journals that I read. For reasons which are not clear to me the editors of these British journals continually ask hostile critics to review new releases of Penderecki's music.
That's strange. Maybe they think it will make the interviews more "interesting"? And no favoritism! ;D
(Anyway, apparently this varies from country to country.)
Now, speaking of borscht...
Quote from: Maciek on July 16, 2008, 12:05:56 PM
On Penderecki's Eighth: I don't think that's the case at all! At least not in my experience of the work - but then, I didn't bother with the texts at all (I hardly ever do :-[). In fact, I'm not even all that certain if I even know what the texts are. ::) ;D
On Teaching Magic at Krakow's University: Heh, heh. Isn't it still?
(My interpolations above)
Well, even ignoring the themes of the texts, I just found the music too spare and not of much interest. I will give it a another chance or two.
You might not know about a marvelous award-winning book in English from the 1920's called
The Trumpeter of Krakow by Eric Kelly, which gives the dual story of a teenager whose family flees the Tartars and ends up living with an alchemist in Krakow, where the legend of the famous trumpeter hovers over him.
Quote from: Maciek on July 16, 2008, 12:05:56 PM
(Anyway, apparently this varies from country to country.)
Borscht?
Quote from: Cato on July 17, 2008, 05:01:22 AM
Well, even ignoring the themes of the texts, I just found the music too spare and not of much interest. I will give it a another chance or two.
Oh dear! Don't do it in my behalf! I've only listened to the piece about 3 times, on 3 different occasions. I liked it fine, and wouldn't mind returning to it, which is a great improvement over some other Penderecki pieces (I've never managed to listen to all of Gates of Jerusalem or Ubu Rex - I just give up after 20-30 minutes). But if you've heard it, and didn't like it - I don't want to be the one responsible for putting you through all of that again. I mean, if your experience of it was anything like mine of the two other pieces just mentioned, re-listening might turn out unhealthy! ;D
Thanks for the book recommendation. Noted. Now, if only the author's given name was
Edward - it would have all been just perfect! But I guess E. Kelly is good enough. ;D
I'm sure borscht does vary from country to country. In Poland alone we have five BASIC variants: three types of "red" borscht (botwinka, barszcz ukraiński, barszcz czerwony), and two types of "white" (żur, zalewajka)!
EDIT: Oh, and I forgot the so-called "mushroom borscht"!
Damn, I just visited the Wikipedia borscht page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borscht), and they classify chłodnik as a type of borscht (cold borscht)! Now, that makes 7 basic types. And I just realized that żur is not the same thing as barszcz biały - so that makes 3 basic types of white borscht. 8 basic types of borscht in Poland, then.
And the Wikipedia lists lots of variants from other countries (though, as usually with Wikipedia, there's lots of garbage in that entry ::)).
As promised back in the summer, I did listen to the Penderecki Eighth again, and no, I am not persuaded. The reviewer from Tempo is right on the mark: I also wondered about the various "basic" mistakes in the scoring. Was this an experiment in breaking basic rules?
I heard a good part of the Fifth Symphony in a broadcast concert by the Pittsburgh Symphony ( I think) some years ago, and recall being very enthusiastic about it.
Where is the Sixth? ???
Quote from: Two-Tone on November 28, 2008, 10:13:11 PM
My kind of critic, lol (misrepresentation of beet soup notwitstanding). I think the Quartely Journal has just earned itself a new subscriber. It's editors and I should get along just fine. Do they also badmouth Shostakovich? If yes, I'll donate a subscription to the neighborhood library 8)
Martin Anderson is probably my favorite music critic overall, writes well - and unsnobbish, have well considered opinions and a well developes critical apparatus, are open to most music, and seem to share a lot of my enthusiasms. IRRW is worth it for his reviews alone.
Quote from: Cato on December 01, 2008, 10:41:48 AM
As promised back in the summer, I did listen to the Penderecki Eighth again, and no, I am not persuaded. The reviewer from Tempo is right on the mark: I also wondered about the various "basic" mistakes in the scoring. Was this an experiment in breaking basic rules?
I heard a good part of the Fifth Symphony in a broadcast concert by the Pittsburgh Symphony ( I think) some years ago, and recall being very enthusiastic about it.
Where is the Sixth? ???
He is still writing No.6 apparently ;D Agree about No.5!
Quote from: erato on December 01, 2008, 11:31:38 AM
Martin Anderson is probably my favorite music critic overall, writes well - and unsnobbish, have well considered opinions and a well developes critical apparatus, are open to most music, and seem to share a lot of my enthusiasms. IRRW is worth it for his reviews alone.
You know that Martin Anderson set up the Toccata label? From my own perspective that label's releases have been a little disappointing. I was expecting more from their catalogue. Only the Tovey releases have really appealed to me although we were promised some R.O. Morris as well.
Glad to see another reader of IRRW :) Excellent magazine for the discerning reader ;D
I guess that quiz was a bit difficult after all...
Quote from: Maciek on July 14, 2008, 04:21:15 PM
(BTW, borscht - now that's what I call ridiculous transcription! ;D)
Hear, hear! :o ;D
Quote from: Maciek on July 14, 2008, 04:21:15 PM
(BTW, borscht - now that's what I call ridiculous transcription! ;D)
Could it be a
Yiddish influence, I wonder? :-\
A plug for this engaging, atmospheric and semi-minimalist music, which I have been enjoying today as a break from Lyatoshynsky's Third Symphony:
Currently enjoying the eloquent Cello Concerto:
[asin]B003NFK5TU[/asin]
Gasherbrum for Small Symphony Orchestra impressed me when I heard it on the radio recently.
Quote from: vandermolen on January 12, 2019, 04:34:00 AM
A plug for this engaging, atmospheric and semi-minimalist music, which I have been enjoying today as a break from Lyatoshynsky's Third Symphony:
Currently enjoying the eloquent Cello Concerto:
[asin]B003NFK5TU[/asin]
Gasherbrum for Small Symphony Orchestra impressed me when I heard it on the radio recently.
Very interesting, Jeffrey! Never heard of her before. I'm always glad to be alerted of a cello concerto that I previously didn't know existed!
Quote from: kyjo on January 12, 2019, 08:38:15 PM
Very interesting, Jeffrey! Never heard of her before. I'm always glad to be alerted of a cello concerto that I previously didn't know existed!
Oh yes, of course you're a cellist. Thanks for replying. The works are quite short, including the Symphony. There's a slight 'Mike Oldfield' element to her music but maybe I'm being disingenuous, although I actually enjoy some Mike Oldfield. I don't know if you know David Bedford's Symphony which, amazingly I've heard in concert. It has a wonderfully catchy last movement. I think that he is a more appropriate comparison for Ratusinska's music. I've already played the CD of her music twice with much enjoyment. Certainly I think you'd enjoy hearing her engaging Cello Concerto.