Post complex Japanese and Chinese Characters

[greg]

I was surprised to see that the Japanese came up with one of their own characters that totally outdoes its matching Chinese character!


here's all the info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_character

this one is a cool Chinese one, somtimes used:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biang_Biang_Noodles

this is the official, 84-stroke Japanese monster Kanji that is the most complex "Chinese character" of all-time:

http://www.mojikyo.gr.jp/gif96/066/066147.gif

and it is ridiculously simple to write!

it's reading is either otodo, taito, or daito, and means "dragon in flight"- just like it's Chinese counterpart, but written with way more strokes. It won't fit one a single line in notebook paper 

maybe one day i'll write an orchestral piece called "otodo", it's very poetic  0:)

[karlhenning]

Isn't "dragons in flight" the East Asian idiom for "tossing one's cookies"?

[karlhenning]

it's reading is either otodo, taito, or daito, and means "dragon in flight"- just like it's Chinese counterpart, but written with way more strokes.

How so?

Do you have a gif of the Chinese ideogram?

[greg]

How so?

Do you have a gif of the Chinese ideogram?

go to this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_character

do a search- type in "otodo", and it'll scroll down to the area with all of the information 


here's the most complex one that can be input into the computer, supposedly:
龘 (it's the chinese version of "a dragon in flight")

[zamyrabyrd]

Our local native Japanese speaker just looked at the 84 stroke kanji and said what's that?
He said that it had repeating kanji but this is common anyway, making more complex words by joining characters together and using the shorter monosyllabic Chinese pronunciation as a further abbreviation.

ZB

[mahlertitan]

go to this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_character

do a search- type in "otodo", and it'll scroll down to the area with all of the information 


here's the most complex one that can be input into the computer, supposedly:
龘 (it's the chinese version of "a dragon in flight")

i can barely see the character, the top part i can identify, it's "dragon", the bottom part is so small that my eyes cant tell what it is.

[greg]

i can barely see the character, the top part i can identify, it's "dragon", the bottom part is so small that my eyes cant tell what it is.

actually, the bottom part is two more dragons

[mahlertitan]

probably not very complex, people use these terms more often:
霸王 (overlord)
藏(hide)
贏(win)

of course, they are not simplified Chinese, in general traditional chinese is much more complex than simplified ones.

[mahlertitan]

the rule of thumb is: in general, the more obscure the meaning of a term is, the more complex it is, for instance:
質數 (Integrals calculus)
導數 (differentials calculus)
鎏 (to rub something with gold)
礓 (numb, lifeless)
篡 (to usurp)
疊 (to fold something)

there are also other interesting characters, characters that use the same character multiple times, this happens exclusively in simplified Chinese.
人 (people)
从 (to participate)
众 (many many people, a body of people)

金 (gold)
鑫 (no meaning, name uses only, means "lots of gold")

木 (wood)
林 (forest)
森 (forest)

石 (rock)
磊 (made from solid rocks)

不用 (no need)
甭 (no need)

[karlhenning]

I guess I just don't have these fonts installed; I see empty little boxes.

[mahlertitan]

I guess I just don't have these fonts installed; I see empty little boxes.

i think u'll need to have them installed, depend on what you are using, in Mozilla Firefox for instance, go to "view", and you will see "character encoding), and in the east-asian section, you should be able to see Chinese "simplified" or "traditional". I think it's pretty much the same with IE.

[greg]

the rule of thumb is: in general, the more obscure the meaning of a term is, the more complex it is, for instance:
質數 (Integrals calculus)
導數 (differentials calculus)
鎏 (to rub something with gold)
礓 (numb, lifeless)
篡 (to usurp)
疊 (to fold something)

there are also other interesting characters, characters that use the same character multiple times, this happens exclusively in simplified Chinese.
人 (people)
从 (to participate)
众 (many many people, a body of people)

金 (gold)
鑫 (no meaning, name uses only, means "lots of gold")

木 (wood)
林 (forest)
森 (forest)

石 (rock)
磊 (made from solid rocks)

不用 (no need)
甭 (no need)

Now that you mention simplified Chinese, what is your opinion of it?
I've read that it is more commonly used than traditional now, and most of the Chinese I've seen written is obviously simplified because some things you can tell- for example: the character for gate (which is a very common radical) being reduced to an enclosing figure with a drop on the top left. It's not that pretty, but I like it!!! 

Seriously, they should make up their minds over the whole thing- having both simplified and traditional characters is ridiculous. It's too bad, though, with the whole thing being complicated politically. I'd vote for simplified Chinese, but then again, i don't know Chinese so if i did, my vote could change....

I also had another question- how much of a difference is there between written Mandarin and a dialect like Cantonese? Could someone who only knows Mandarin be able to read something in Cantonese? I mean, are most of the words written the same? (just out of curiosity)

i'm still trying to make Japanese IME work, i had it years ago on another computer... 
(just need to get administrator access to install anything- makes it hard to do any type of search in Japanese or post any characters)

i wish someone here spoke Japanese 

[oyasumi]

ぼくも。

[greg]

ぼくも。

sweet, i'd talk to you using Japanese script but as i said, i'm working on getting the IME installed. Also, I sorta took a break for a few years, so my Japanese is VERY rusty, so i do my best to remember anything i can. Now, with Spanish I'm just watching an hour of TV a day, and I've started studying Japanese again- watch out, everyone!   

hmmm......

oyasumi, anata no daisuki sakkyokuka wa dare desu ka?

[mahlertitan]

Now that you mention simplified Chinese, what is your opinion of it?

I also had another question- how much of a difference is there between written Mandarin and a dialect like Cantonese? Could someone who only knows Mandarin be able to read something in Cantonese? I mean, are most of the words written the same? (just out of curiosity)

okay.

Now that you mention simplified Chinese, what is your opinion of it?

Simplified Chinese is better, because it's simpler than traditional Chinese. Certain characters takes twice as many strokes in traditional Chinese than in Simplified Chinese, i think this helps people to learn the language better.

how much of a difference is there between written Mandarin and a dialect like Cantonese?

huge difference, a person from Beijing who speaks mandarin probably won't understand a word from someone from Hong Kong or Guangdong who speaks Cantonese.

Could someone who only knows Mandarin be able to read something in Cantonese? are most of the words written the same?

do not confuse Cantonese as a Language, Cantonese is a Dialect, which only means a different pronunciation of the same characters.
The written Chinese is still the same for both speakers, they might pronounce words differently, but the meaning stays the same.

[greg]

okay.

Now that you mention simplified Chinese, what is your opinion of it?

Simplified Chinese is better, because it's simpler than traditional Chinese. Certain characters takes twice as many strokes in traditional Chinese than in Simplified Chinese, i think this helps people to learn the language better.

how much of a difference is there between written Mandarin and a dialect like Cantonese?

huge difference, a person from Beijing who speaks mandarin probably won't understand a word from someone from Hong Kong or Guangdong who speaks Cantonese.

Could someone who only knows Mandarin be able to read something in Cantonese? are most of the words written the same?

do not confuse Cantonese as a Language, Cantonese is a Dialect, which only means a different pronunciation of the same characters.
The written Chinese is still the same for both speakers, they might pronounce words differently, but the meaning stays the same.

thanks for answering my questions

lol, to me, if they can't understand each other, it sounds like it should be classified as a different language- but, I guess I'll leave that up to the experts, must be a dialect then 

you know, within 50 years, probably by then they'll just totally do away with traditional characters totally, in all parts of China... hopefully, at least for mainstream use. Maybe one day i'll learn Mandarin or Cantonese, though that'd be a really long time from now  0:)

[greg]

i already have two gifts in mind for my birthday or Christmas, but it's so far off, both in December  ...................

THE ULTIMATE KANJI BOOK  0:)

http://books.google.com/books?id=Kjco6W_nGAAC&dq=the+kanji+dictionary&pg=PP1&ots=__nZDucXxm&sig=OIyxO0gb6aOO9KQ-3VSR2dIeh8M&prev=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=the+kanji+dictionary&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title

and that one set of Vaughan Williams symphonies.....


Check out that book- it has over 7,000 Kanji 
maybe it has the flight of the dragon in there

[greg]

just wondering- for the Kanji for "dragon", which one does everyone like better?

this:
竜

or this:
龍

[mahlertitan]

just wondering- for the Kanji for "dragon", which one does everyone like better?

this:
竜

or this:
龍

the latter

[greg]

the latter

ha! me too!
i'm pretty sure the first one is Japanese-only, since i just did a google search with it, and no Chinese pages came up. Why they decided to make another character for dragon, who knows.... the other one is used as a radical, anyways- like in:

襲来 - probably my favorite word  0:)