Sibelius Symphonies

[Brian]

Sounds like you had an allergic reaction.   

The harshness of the opinion doesn't bother me because it's a tad over the top.

My opinion is more in line with Mark Stenroos at Amazon.  I thought I would mention something hot off the presses, but for a "classic" set with much better sonics than the dull sounding Davis/Boston, Sanderling would probably be my favorite.  I haven't heard the whole Maazel cycle or the new re-mastering, but love what I've heard, particularly 4.

Here we agree!! Sanderling is a dark hourse but it's so good - the Sixth is one of my fa...or maybe it is my favorite.

[amw]

Don't know the Kamu recordings (didn't know they existed actually—though iirc he also conducted something on the DG symphony set shared with Karajan). Sanderling is on Qobuz under a Berlin Classics issue which I'll check out.

I have a lot of respect for Blomstedt. The biggest names in "cold/classicist" are Maazel/Vienna and Vanska, of course.

If you go the single disc route, you will probably love the Sakari 6/7 and you might like their 5 a lot too - the orchestra is still smaller, but they pull it off by hook and crook, which is kind of exciting. Inkinen in general is not good but his 7th is quite possibly all-time Top 3.

I have the Maazel/WP 4th and 7th and Tapiola, which is superb in all three works, and I have no particular desire to hear any more from them, for whatever reason. I have a Vänskä recording with two versions of the Fifth which I will definitely listen to someday.

I think the Sakari 6/7 was the recording that introduced me to the 6th, and their recording holds up quite well (probably imprinting). That may be a disc I'll eventually get. I think I put Blomstedt in the lead because of listening to his 4th which, while pretty much the opposite of Maazel, had a great icy windswept feel to it as well as a sense of inexorability. The problem is I barely know this repertoire so I often get distracted by, er, listening to the music.

[Abuelo Igor]

I have the Maazel/WP 4th and 7th and Tapiola

That probably means that you own a copy of the "Vienna Philharmonic Orchestral Edition", like yours truly. That's a good one, isn't it?

[amw]

I have the Decca Legends "Legendary Performances" disc actually. The performance of the 4th is apparently GMG's favourite and comes across really well (even from the very opening—no one else has the basses and cellos dig in with such violence).

I listened to Sanderling's 4th (which didn't make as much of an impression on me as Blomstedt's, apart from the slow movement), and Blomstedt's 5th (better than his 4th, probably). I also listened to and promptly acquired Rosbaud's 6th, which sounded "right" in a lot of ways that Davis and Berglund didn't (e.g. no rushing the first movement).

[André]

Listened to Symphonies 1, 2, 4, 7. Finlandia, Valse triste, The Swan of Tuolena, The Oceanides, Pohjola's Daughter. The late seventies versions, discs 1-3 from the above set.

I am/was more familiar with Ormandy's 1950s and early 60s recordings than those versions from 15-25 years later, made just a few years before the conductor's retirement. There is also a mid-fifties op. 22 (Lemminkäinen Legends) that Ormandy also remade for EMI.

In general, my firm opinion is that Ormandy is one of the very, very best conductors ever to record these works. Along with Barbirolli, Rozhdestvensky Collins and Karajan, his grasp of the idiom is superb, his command of sibelian grammar perfect, his emotional and intellectual commitment total. He also had the best orchestra, bar none. Winds, brass and percussion are more individualized, the mass of strings leaner but more athletic than in Berlin for example. The mid-fifties recordings of symphonies 4 and 5 and the Legends (in mono) are awesome and surprisingly urgent.

So, what changed between the two periods under consideration? On the surface, very little. Tempi are practically identical for one thing. But if one listens attentively, subtle shifts have occured. Phrasing is sometimes broader but the additional seconds are used to add emphasis (accents, stronger leaning on beats, slightly longer held note values) while keeping essentially the same basic tempo. A good example of this is found in the two readings of the Second, made 20 years apart. The first 2 movements clock in at 1 second of each other. The last 2 add less than a minute in the later recording. The scherzo is slightly more clinical, but the finale erupts just as mightily as before. The effect is urgent, sanguine, unsentimental to a fault in the earlier recording, tough, blunt and passionate in the later one. In both, the kernel of the work is the second movement, a cliff-hanger, edge-of-seat reading, only equalled by Barbirolli (with the RPO and the BSO).

When I started collecting recordings in the seventies I was subscribing to High Fidelity and Stereo Review, and the consensus was that the new recordings were superficially exciting and too glossy - the familiar lament about the lost golden age, blablabla. This is as far from the truth as could be. The interpretations have matured, deepened, but the freshness is intact, the commitment and concentration undiminished, the virtuosity still unsurpassed. Ormandy was a no nonsense type of conductor, who would never impose any kind of agenda on a score. As a sibelian, he was prone to drive hard, to unashamedly solicit all the colours the orchestra could muster, and yet the music would emerge as icy, imposing and forbidding as under Karajan's darker, slower interpretations.

We must be thankful for the restoration to the catalogue of these essential interpretations. Alas, the mono recordings have been overlooked, which is a shame. The set contains 2 versions each of symphonies 1, 2 and 7, of the violin concerto, Swan of Tuonela and Valse triste, and no fewer than 3 Finlandias. So why not the Legends and a second version of the 4th and 5th ?   

[Roasted Swan]

In general, my firm opinion is that Ormandy is one of the very, very best conductors ever to record these works.

As it happens I recently bought/listened to this set.  Quite exceptional value and as you say very impressive indeed as performances and interpretations.  My personal preference is for the even craggier Berglund but how wonderful to be able to have room for both sets - and Karajan as well as others - in one's collection at such a bargain price.....

[Brian]

I really love some of those Ormandy interpretations - they represent some of his best work and the two Sevenths in particular are great. I need to spend some real quality time with them to hear the evolution in his style (and try out the two concertos).

Anybody hear the Paavo/Paris cycle yet?

[relm1]

As it happens I recently bought/listened to this set.  Quite exceptional value and as you say very impressive indeed as performances and interpretations.  My personal preference is for the even craggier Berglund but how wonderful to be able to have room for both sets - and Karajan as well as others - in one's collection at such a bargain price.....

Ormandy might be my favorite Sibelius No. 2.  But I haven't heard the others, how do they rank?

[aukhawk]

[Ormandy]  Quite exceptional value and as you say very impressive indeed as performances and interpretations.  My personal preference is for the even craggier Berglund but how wonderful to be able to have room for both sets - and Karajan as well as others - in one's collection at such a bargain price.....

For late Sibelius (4,5,6,7,Tapiola) there is no need to look beyond Vanska/Lahti SO - which is also available very cheaply in various configurations.  (Or, if you are a BBC reviewer, they seem fixated on Davis/LSO Live, also a bargain set.)  I'll seek out that '70s Ormandy though - I too admire some of his other recordings and that looks interesting.

[Biffo]

For late Sibelius (4,5,6,7,Tapiola) there is no need to look beyond Vanska/Lahti SO - which is also available very cheaply in various configurations.  (Or, if you are a BBC reviewer, they seem fixated on Davis/LSO Live, also a bargain set.)  I'll seek out that '70s Ormandy though - I too admire some of his other recordings and that looks interesting.

The CD of Symphonies 6 & 7 and Tapiola  from Vanska/Lahti is my all time favourite single disc of Sibelius. I have the complete Boston and LSO (RCA) cycles from Davis and have greatly enjoyed them over the years; I only have No 2 from the LSO Live cycle but prefer his Boston rendition.

[Roasted Swan]

For late Sibelius (4,5,6,7,Tapiola) there is no need to look beyond Vanska/Lahti SO

I like those Vanska recordings for sure.  But a bold statement to say 'no need to look beyond'.  No great works  can or do exist in one single version.  I admire starkly different and varying approaches to these works.

[André]

I like those Vanska recordings for sure.  But a bold statement to say 'no need to look beyond'.  No great works  can or do exist in one single version.  I admire starkly different and varying approaches to these works.

My thoughts, exactly. The Vänskä set is indeed quite superb. The most impressive 3rd and 5th I know are from Rozhdestvensky. In the 1st, Stokowski. In the 6th, Karajan DGG. Etc. Diversity illuminates.

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

For late Sibelius (4,5,6,7,Tapiola) there is no need to look beyond Vanska/Lahti SO - which is also available very cheaply in various configurations.  (Or, if you are a BBC reviewer, they seem fixated on Davis/LSO Live, also a bargain set.)  I'll seek out that '70s Ormandy though - I too admire some of his other recordings and that looks interesting.

No need to look beyond? Only #2 from that set really convinced me. If Vanska/Lahti was my only option, I would probably never listen to Sibelius again.

[vandermolen]

Nice review Andre.

What's the verdict on Ormandy's 'Tapiola' here?

I like the Monteux Symphony 2 on Decca and Sargent's No.5 remains my favourite.

Berglund's Bournemouth set rates very highly for me along with all those Kajanus recordings and Beecham and Sanderling's Symphony 4.

[André]

I finished listening to the set yesterday and for good measure listened also to Ormandy's mono recordings of 4, 5 and the Legends. Will post comments later today 

[Mirror Image]

Good review of the Sibelius Ormandy set, Andre. You remind I need to listen to Rozhdestvensky's traversal of the Sibelius symphonies. This is a conductor I really admire for his unique personality and the kind of individuality he brings to the music he conducts.

[André]

I finished listening to the set yesterday and for good measure listened also to Ormandy's mono recordings of 4, 5 and the Legends. Will post comments later today 

I will start by recognizing the unique importance of that set. The conductor has been involved with Sibelius' music since the beginning of his career, spanning over 5 decades. He recorded the first symphony in 1935 in Minneapolis and his last recording of his music was made in 1980. His association with the philadelphians dates from 1936 (as associate conductor with Stokowski - he became their sole director 2 years later). So what we have here is a partnership of conductor/orchestra unequalled in this composer's interpretive tradition. Not only is it long in duration, but unbroken as well, not to mention exhaustive in scope: only the 3rd and 6th are missing from his repertoire - he claimed they remained closed books to him, a candid but honest admission.

So, what we have here is exceptionally comprehensive, including as it does multiple versions of many works. But not all the material available to BMG/Sony has been included. His incredible mid-fifties versions of the 4th and 5th, both unequalled as far as I'm concerned are missing, as well as earlier versions of the op 22 Legends and various tone poems and even the famous Oistrakh version of the concerto (in stereo) are nowhere to be found. Why? It can't be because they decided on stereo only versions. The rival Szell/Cleveland collection of Dvorak+Smetana includes mono versions of the 9th, Moldau, Slavonic Dances as well as the stereo remakes. This is quite frustrating. Fortunately the missing items are available elsewhere, but with some difficulty and at a higher price (check the Pristine label and the Haydn House website to find them). They are worth seeking. I listened to the symphonies yesterday and my knuckles were white from grabbing the arms of my easy chair. Astounding playing from the orchestra and boiling hot interpretations from all concerned.

Here's a rundown of the 8 discs and a note (on 10) for each work.

1- Symphony no 1 (1978). A superb version, passionate and given to an almost indulgent delight in its own gorgeousness. Excellent sound. 8/10

2 - Symphony no 2 (1972). Valse triste, Swan of Tuonela (1973) and Finlandia (with chorus, 1972). The earlier version of the 2nd is a classic, but I found the remake more gripping, with extra tension in the second movement and an unsurpassed sweep in the finale. 8/10. Ormandy was perfect in Valse triste, which is often treated as a slow-motion dream, but not here. Its bittersweetness is caught to perfection both times: 10/10. Swan is almost as good, as it is in the earlier recording: 9/10. Finlandia is given here in an unauthentic version with chorus singing the cloying verses of On Great Lone Hills. I find it almost nauseating but there's no denying the fervour of the chorus. 5/10.

3- Symphony no 4 ( 1978), Pohjola's Daughter, The Oceanides (1976); symphony no 7 (1975). An excellent disc overall, with Oceanides standing out (9/10). The 4th is very good but its drama quotient is much lower than in 1955. Still, compared to other stereo versions it's a powerful, wholly commendable interpretation. This time around Ormandy uses tubular bells (a glockenspiel was used in '55): 8/10. The 7th is a slight disappointment, the symphony sounding a bit sectional. At almost 24 minutes it's a bit on the slow side (many are in the 20-22 minutes range, my own 'comfort zone' in this work - van Kempen dispatches it in 16 minutes !!). 6/10.

4- Symphony no 5, En Saga (1975), Tapiola (1976). Sterling performances, particularly in the symphony. The stretto that concludes the first movement duly sends the pulse racing. Some conductors refuse to accelerate, but that often makes the end sound more perfunctory than exciting. Ormandy was not a fast conductor, but he knew when to nudge ahead (or back) for effect, never cheapening the music. That's plain good musicianship: 8/10. En Saga is endowed with delicate instrumental solos, played here with much emotion by the string and wind soloists. Tapiola at almost 20 minutes is a bit slow for my taste, but Ormandy unleashes a powerful head of steam in the storm section. Impressive. 7.5/10 for the two tone poems.

5 - Violin concerto (Dylana Jenson, 1980), Karelia Overture (1977), Karelia Suite (1975). I've read excellent reviews for the concerto, an enthusiasm I simply cannot share. Too slow and violin-centered for my taste (by which I mean favoring beauty and purity of tone at the expense of expressiveness). 6/10. The Karelia items are very winning, especially the little-known Overture (9/10). In the familiar Suite I did not find the magic Barbirolli conjured with his Hallé Orchestra (best Finlandia ever, btw). 7/10.

6 - Symphony no 1 (1962); Violin concerto (Stern), 1969. The interpretation of the symphony is passionate, torrid even, molten lava spewing forth with a vengeance. The tension does not let up in the slow movement, with a turbulent central episode that left me gasping for air. I find the scherzo too tame (Stokowski is better here), but the action picks up in the finale, with full, gorgeous textures, tension ratcheting and decibels mercilessly piling up. The harp is heard like in no other recording I know, its gurgling arpeggios so clear I thought I had been dragged underwater by finnish rhinemaidens:  9.5/10 (Stoki gets a 10). The concerto is very good. As ever with Stern the sound is generous, the virtuosity unstinting, the interpretation a bit straight. Some magic is missing. Ormandy provides a much more generous and attentive accompaniment than with Jenson. 7/10. For some reason I have never heard a recording of the concerto that fully satisfied me.

7 - Symphony no 2 (1957) and no 7 (1960). Despite its early date, the sound in the 2nd is full, detailed and blooms beautifully. This was one of my first ever Sibelius 2nds (Monteux and Barbirolli RPO were the others) and I've always liked it. It is a bit less dramatic and interventionist than in 1972, when Ormandy seems to have attempted to give the work a less 'classic', more emotional interpretation. 8/10. The 7th from 1960 is definitely tauter and better integrated than in 1975 (some would say it sounds less tired). I find it truly excellent, with a stunningly defiant conclusion. Superb playing and very good sound (Broadwood Hotel for this disc vs Scottish Rite Cathedral for most of the rest of the set).

8 - Additional versions of Finlandia (orchestra only in 1968, with chorus in 1959); Valse triste (1959), Swan of Tuonela (1960), Karelia Suite (without the Overture) from 1968. The standouts here are the Valse triste and a sumptuously dark Swan. The Valse clocks in substantially slower than on disc 2 but still sounds lovely. 10/10. The Finlandias are very good in a Barnum & Bailey way.

The mono versions of symphonies 4 and 5 get the full 10/10. I know of no more dramatic versions, searingly intense and pitch black dark in the 4th, surging and exhilarating in the 5th, with the concluding chords easily the most tension-filled, savagely attacked of all.

Hearing these performances in succession makes for a quite extraordinary experience. Other interpretations equal or surpass them, but Ormandy/Philadelphia are unique, simply unique.

[vandermolen]

Thanks for the very detailed and informative review Andre. I shall listen to this set with added insight.

[Irons]

Good review of the Sibelius Ormandy set, Andre. You remind I need to listen to Rozhdestvensky's traversal of the Sibelius symphonies. This is a conductor I really admire for his unique personality and the kind of individuality he brings to the music he conducts.

Well said, of which I whole-heartedly agree. The brass may be a tad too fruity for some but I enjoy Rozhdestvensky's Sibelius very much - again an exceptional 4th.

[Roasted Swan]

The mono versions of symphonies 4 and 5 get the full 10/10. I know of no more dramatic versions, searingly intense and pitch black dark in the 4th, surging and exhilarating in the 5th, with the concluding chords easily the most tension-filled, savagely attacked of all.

Andre - thankyou for such a thoughtful and valuable assessment of this set.  I was trying to see where/if the mono versions of 4&5 exist on CD.  I can find various incarnations of them as MP3's or streamed but no discs as such.  Were they released on CD?