The Snowshoed Sibelius

[SurprisedByBeauty]

I'm with Sibelius 7th and not yet too old for it. I still find it one of the greatest symphonies there is. Yummyummyum.

[relm1]

There is a concert of the LA Phil this weekend I am thinking of attending with Luonnotar and Symphony No. 5 but the concert is a little short of content.  The entire concert program adds up to only around 65 minutes of music and LA Phil is extremely expensive so not sure if I can justify it to myself.  It's a little disappointing they are putting in a long program for such high concert fees.

[SymphonicAddict]

+1 

But the 4th and 5th are powerful contenders, don't you think?

Besides the glorious 7th, Nos. 2 and 5 are my next favorites. I never was too keen on the 4th, its dark and much more introspective nature is still impenetrable to me, but I haven't given up yet. I hope at any moment it clicks on me.

[SymphonicAddict]

Now that you've said this, I feel an obligation to revisit it. I have never fully connected with Sibelius' 7th. It, along with the 4th, remain enigmatic to me. As much as I enjoy Sibelius, I feel like there is something I am missing on some level. I would not call him one of my favorite composers, though I do enjoy much of his music.

What recording did you listen to?

Berglund/Bournemouth SO and this on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/v/vZRQh6oVI_4

To my ears, this performance sounded very clear, cristalline, majestic, rightly paced. It should be a real treat to be on that concert!

[vers la flamme]

Berglund/Bournemouth SO and this on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/v/vZRQh6oVI_4

To my ears, this performance sounded very clear, cristalline, majestic, rightly paced. It should be a real treat to be on that concert!

Awesome, Berglund/Bournemouth SO is the one I have and like a lot. I have also the Vänskä/Lahti but am not convinced on it. I'm debating listening again to Sibelius' 7th again tonight.

[Mirror Image]

Besides the glorious 7th, Nos. 2 and 5 are my next favorites. I never was too keen on the 4th, its dark and much more introspective nature is still impenetrable to me, but I haven't given up yet. I hope at any moment it clicks on me.

The 4th is the only Sibelius symphony in which I actually shed several tears to. I kid you not. The slow third movement, Il tempo largo, had a huge effect on me whenever I finally just succumbed to the music. I could hear genuine sadness in this particular movement. But the symphony isn't all darkness, the last movement (Allegro) provides some relief and ends the symphony beautifully. Given the circumstances surrounding his personal life at the time, it's a wonder this symphony ever saw the light of day to begin with, but I'm glad it did, it's a favorite of mine.

[Sergeant Rock]

This reminds me of an intense (and intensely valuable) discussion with Brian (and others) some years ago, earlier in this thread. I had been baffled by the 7th symphony ever since I first listened to it in my teens in the 1960s, and Brian wrote down a structure which I found very helpful. I've been trying to find that list of his, and at last I found it, here:

https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,341.msg451974.html#msg451974

But it was the most fascinating discussion I ever had on GMG.

Thanks for posting that link. I started reading it (page 35) and didn't stop until I realized I'd read up to page 100 and it was 5 a.m...way past my bedtime    Fascinating indeed. One of the great threads that inspired some great discussion, great arguments. It was quite a nostalgic trip, and a sad one too, noticing all the very active members then who are no longer with us (e.g., DavidRoss, DavidW, Scots John, Opus106, Octave).

Sarge

[Irons]

The 7th is in my opinion the greatest 20c symphony with the 4th not far behind. I have special feelings for the 2nd as the first symphony I heard which sold me on the composer. I very much like the two Cinderella symphonies, the 3rd & 6th in equal measure. For some reason I am now bored by the 5th and not really got around to get to know the 1st.

[vers la flamme]

The 7th is in my opinion the greatest 20c symphony with the 4th not far behind. I have special feelings for the 2nd as the first symphony I heard which sold me on the composer. I very much like the two Cinderella symphonies, the 3rd & 6th in equal measure. For some reason I am now bored by the 5th and not really got around to get to know the 1st.

Cinderella symphonies?

I just bought the Karajan 2CD with symphonies 4 through 7. Excited to hear it. I reckon he may be able to help me come around on some of the more difficult symphonies.

[Mirror Image]

Cinderella symphonies?

I just bought the Karajan 2CD with symphonies 4 through 7. Excited to hear it. I reckon he may be able to help me come around on some of the more difficult symphonies.

Of all the symphonies, the 6th was the most difficult for me to crack, but when I did, a whole world opened up to me. I'm reminded here of Sibelius' own quotes regarding the 6th: "(The Sixth Symphony) always reminds me of the scent of the first snow," but also this, "Rage and passion (...) are utterly essential in it, but it is supported by undercurrents deep under the surface of the music."

Some invaluable information found here:

http://www.sibelius.fi/english/musiikki/ork_sinf_06.htm

[SymphonicAddict]

The 4th is the only Sibelius symphony in which I actually shed several tears to. I kid you not. The slow third movement, Il tempo largo, had a huge effect on me whenever I finally just succumbed to the music. I could hear genuine sadness in this particular movement. But the symphony isn't all darkness, the last movement (Allegro) provides some relief and ends the symphony beautifully. Given the circumstances surrounding his personal life at the time, it's a wonder this symphony ever saw the light of day to begin with, but I'm glad it did, it's a favorite of mine.

Precisely yesterday I heard it again carefully. I liked it a little more, it made more sense, but it still is not as direct as the others 6. Since you mention the 3rd movement, that was the one I felt more poignant. The 'climax' on it is very intense as Sibelius knew how to make.

This symphony is, for me, like a bleak winter, one especially raw and desolate. Only in the 4th movement appears some glimpses of optimism, but in the end, there are more questions than answers.

[Irons]

Of all the symphonies, the 6th was the most difficult for me to crack, but when I did, a whole world opened up to me. I'm reminded here of Sibelius' own quotes regarding the 6th: "(The Sixth Symphony) always reminds me of the scent of the first snow," but also this, "Rage and passion (...) are utterly essential in it, but it is supported by undercurrents deep under the surface of the music."

Some invaluable information found here:

http://www.sibelius.fi/english/musiikki/ork_sinf_06.htm

Possibly the reason for your difficulty with the 6th is due to the fact that it is the one that trips up so many conductors. Many more make a good job of the 4th and 7th then with the 6th.

[Irons]

Cinderella symphonies?

Cinderella: Something receiving undeserved neglect.

[aukhawk]

The 4th is the only Sibelius symphony in which I actually shed several tears to. I kid you not. The slow third movement, Il tempo largo, had a huge effect on me whenever I finally just succumbed to the music. I could hear genuine sadness in this particular movement. But the symphony isn't all darkness, the last movement (Allegro) provides some relief and ends the symphony beautifully. Given the circumstances surrounding his personal life at the time, it's a wonder this symphony ever saw the light of day to begin with, but I'm glad it did, it's a favorite of mine.

The 3rd movement of the 4th symphony is the epicentre of Sibelius, for me.

[vers la flamme]

Listening to Sibelius' 7th again. I had put on the Vänskä/Lahti recording, but it sounded all wrong... I had to change it back to the Berglund/Bournemouth. I don't know what it is about the Vänskä but I just don't like it at all, too terse, maybe, too tightly wound. Just doesn't do it for me. I know that for many people, Vänskä/Lahti IS Sibelius, so maybe I'm missing something big that will click one day, but in the meantime, I regret having spent money on that cycle.

Berglund/Bournemouth on the other hand... this is probably one of the greatest symphony cycles of any composer ever recorded by anyone. Flawless, or damn near.

I think it's interesting how much love I see for Sibelius' 4th here. That is his most challenging symphony, as far as I can tell, and on other boards I often see people saying that they don't understand it and things like that. To me, it is the music of a mourner who is afraid of death, of a solitary wanderer in the snow at night time, and of a poor, extremely anxious guy who really needs a drink. Of course, this is Sibelius, and there is probably a world of depth on top of what I just mentioned. But these are my thoughts as of now.

I have some equally purple prose for the 7th symphony as of now but will spare my fellow GMGers for now. 

[Mirror Image]

Precisely yesterday I heard it again carefully. I liked it a little more, it made more sense, but it still is not as direct as the others 6. Since you mention the 3rd movement, that was the one I felt more poignant. The 'climax' on it is very intense as Sibelius knew how to make.

This symphony is, for me, like a bleak winter, one especially raw and desolate. Only in the 4th movement appears some glimpses of optimism, but in the end, there are more questions than answers.

Perhaps that's what I love about the 4th. It's more like a journey than a destination. Some things in life aren't black/white and the same applies in music. I actually would rather be left with questions than have all the answers. It makes for a more interesting musical experience for me. I think, in time, you'll come to appreciate it, but you have to remember the circumstances it was composed under. It wasn't a particular happy time for the composer and I know that this is something that is extramusical and has little to do with your actual enjoyment of the music, but it doesn't hurt to know what the composer was going through at the time of composition as I do believe it gives the listener a bit more information and something to chew on or mull over instead of just writing the symphony off altogether.

[Mirror Image]

The 3rd movement of the 4th symphony is the epicentre of Sibelius, for me.

I'm inclined to agree that this movement is the essence of who he was.

[Jo498]

I think #4 and #7 are in some ways both the most challenging and the most convincing. The 4th because of its bleakness, the 7th because of the strange one-movement form (and emotional ambiguity). OTOH #3 and also #6 seem hard to get for many because they seem so detached, especially the former. Recall that Karajan and I think also Ormandy never conducted the 3rd because they admitted that they "didn't get it".

[Madiel]

#4 is also my favourite. Which I'm sure I've said before.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

My evolution was pretty straight forward: It started with the Second, which was the first I heard live and the first I had on record. And which happens to be the most conventional. I loved the performance and I played the hell out of the CD. And then I worked my way through, loving it more or less along the way, except for the Fourth, which proved elusive for many, many years -- and to some extent still is.

I do love the 7th, though... and I think that love came pretty soon after the 2nd. What an ending. What conciseness. It's like I'm floating, constantly, listening to the music. The Sixth you hear less often in concert, but when it's performed, it really works. Loved this concert (https://ionarts.blogspot.com/2012/12/london-town-sibelius-lovers-frozen-dream.html), with Vanska substituting for Davis (who would subsequently never conduct the LSO again and died some five months later) and Kavakos: All-Sibelius at the Barbican.