And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020

[dissily Mordentroge]

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . I remind you that taking and selling African slaves has been the regular business of Arabian and African warlords throughout the centuries? Or that slavery is right now when I'm typing this post a gruesoem reality in Africa?

A reality the world appears to want to ignore. Our age has more deliberately ignored elephants in the room than ever.

[Madiel]

I don't know how you came to this conclusion but it's the exact opposite of what I said and implied.

I say and imply this: people of African descent are better off in the USA than in any African country their ancestors originated in. And this is actually incorrect since prior to the arrival of the Europeans, and many centuries after, there were no countries in Africa, just tribes constantly warring with each other, and constantly selling their war prisoners as slaves to the highest bider. Horrendous things which are still happening right now, this very moment.

You might have meant to imply this, but you certainly didn't say this. You just threw out a rhetorical question.

I'm not going to get into a detailed discussion about Africa and what goes on there, but I wish I knew the difference between a "country" and a "tribe". Tribes are apparently warring entities, whereas countries...?

Europeans have been incredibly good at assuming that if they don't recognise a government and a property system and various other societal systems, that none exist.

[drogulus]

     Africans are doing pretty well in America. They tend to be more highly educated than the native born population.

[Florestan]

As to whether there are too many immigrants in Europe, I fail to see why the religion of the immigrants is relevant.

Go live in a French no-go zone and you'll see.

People have the same basic infrastructure requirements

This is an argument for any dictatorship which meets basic infrastructure requirements. I've heard it countless times in this form: "Had Ceausescu provided food and shelter to all Romanians, he'd have still been ruling the country."

That's bullshit on  stilts.

And worrying that people might change a place because they're "different" ignores the way that places are always, always changing.

That's true, but then again changing from the rule of law to Sharia is not a natural change.

Some Europeans seem desperately keen to preserve a religion that doesn't actually come from Europe

No. Some Europeans wants to preserve their way of life.

[dissily Mordentroge]

     Africans are doing pretty well in America. They tend to be more highly educated than the native born population.

What is meant here by 'Native born population?' Are we talking about those born in Africa who have migrated to the US? Or all African Americans?

[Florestan]

I wish I knew the difference between a "country" and a "tribe".

If you really don't know this difference then I'm afraid our discussion is useless. Honestly, I suspect you know it only too well but you're just being contrarian for the sake of it.

Been there, done that. Not anymore. Good night.

[dissily Mordentroge]

If you really don't know this difference then I'm afraid our discussion is useless. Honestly, I suspect you know it only too well but you're just being contrarian for the sake of it.

Been there, done that. Not anymore. Good night.

There is a difference in the strict definition yet far too often the behavior of nations, especially towards each other, fails to rise above tribalism.

[dissily Mordentroge]

     Africans are doing pretty well in America. They tend to be more highly educated than the native born population.

That doesn't take much.

[greg]

The outrage is because the police are in a position of trust, which they are betraying - like a corrupt politician, and this is not justice fitting any crime that may or may not have happened, and because it follows a lower level of harassment and racism from the police. And because its the continuation of a long history of injustice against blacks.

You won't be interested by I just finished and can recommend a very good book on this subject, told through interviews with victims families and grassroots level activists:




What are your main news sources on Youtube?

I don't disagree with there being outrage, and understand why it exists. I disagree with there being outrage over that, but not over gang violence.

Pretty much just Tim Pool as my main news source. But that's not really so important since I think about what I hear rather than just accept whatever people tell me.

A few more thoughts that I think is important to keep in mind.

The root cause of mass shooters that act alone is most likely just men with aggressive tendencies that lack direction.

The thing that mass shooters typical have in common is: 1) no girlfriend/wife or life goals 2) on antidepressants

The first will give you direction. The second sometimes has side effects of increased aggression. We need to look at these problems. The ideology is always secondary, and so are the weapons used. So I can say the same for Muslim terrorists who act alone.

If your cause is more important to you than acting out your own personal aggression, then you will get others to join and start tribal warfare. You won't just shoot random people and commit suicide. Way less death that way.

     Africans are doing pretty well in America. They tend to be more highly educated than the native born population.

Maybe... same situation with people from Asia. It's often jobs that bring them here because they are smart and skilled, so they end up making good money.

[Madiel]

If you really don't know this difference then I'm afraid our discussion is useless. Honestly, I suspect you know it only too well but you're just being contrarian for the sake of it.

Been there, done that. Not anymore. Good night.

When you wake up, take a good hard proper look at the history of Europe.

The conception of countries you're so damn keen on is no more than a couple of centuries old, and arguably didn't take hold until the end of World War I.

Your other post has a bunch of stuff about no go zones and Sharia law, and some weird argument that infrastructure like roads and schools and shops and hospitals are communist, that I'm going to ignore because you were obviously tired and emotional.

As is evidenced by the childish "I'm not going to explain what I think the difference is between a tribe and a country" post that you just wrote.

Africa had fucking kingdoms. 

[SimonNZ]

I don't disagree with there being outrage, and understand why it exists. I disagree with there being outrage over that, but not over gang violence.

Pretty much just Tim Pool as my main news source. But that's not really so important since I think about what I hear rather than just accept whatever people tell me.

A few more thoughts that I think is important to keep in mind.

The root cause of mass shooters that act alone is most likely just men with aggressive tendencies that lack direction.

The thing that mass shooters typical have in common is: 1) no girlfriend/wife or life goals 2) on antidepressants

The first will give you direction. The second sometimes has side effects of increased aggression. We need to look at these problems. The ideology is always secondary, and so are the weapons used. So I can say the same for Muslim terrorists who act alone.

If your cause is more important to you than acting out your own personal aggression, then you will get others to join and start tribal warfare. You won't just shoot random people and commit suicide. Way less death that way.

I don't see how you jumped from the subject of police shootings to mass shooters. Or why you need to bring outrage at gang violence into this (which there is, its just expressed in different ways). Unless you think its okay for these police to see every black man as a violent gang member.

[Daverz]

I don't disagree with there being outrage, and understand why it exists. I disagree with there being outrage over that, but not over gang violence.

This is the worst sort of whataboutism.  Are we all supposed to pretend you give a shit about gang violence?

[greg]

I don't see how you jumped from the subject of police shootings to mass shooters. Or why you need to bring outrage at gang violence into this (which there is, its just expressed in different ways). Unless you think its okay for these police to see every black man as a violent gang member.

"Jump from police shooting to mass shooters"- Jumped back to the subject of mass shooters because I was elaborating on my previous post about the NZ shooter.

"Why I need to bring gang violence into this-" I explain below.

This is the worst sort of whataboutism.  Are we all supposed to pretend you give a shit about gang violence?

Obviously no ability to read between the lines.

It's not about which specific issue I care about. My point is tying back to the media being manipulative (all forms of media, but we're talking about leftist media).

Do you think police shooting unarmed black men accounts for more deaths than gang violence among black men? If you're talking about power, well then people have the power to not shoot at other people as well.

So then why is all the focus on police violence instead of gang violence?

Because people are largely non-racist nowadays, so they don't like to hear about racism. So those stories sell, or get clicks, because of the outrage. Gang violence is just boring non-stories to people in comparison (it's more of a local news thing). People in Seattle won't care about the specific people involved in a Chicago shooting that happens every day, but Chicago residents might be interested.

The media, the people who tell you that you should care, doesn't care about the lives of black men. If they did, they would be activists against gang violence, which would be an ambition to save more lives. But that isn't profitable.

If you don't see the obvious manipulation then you are part of the problem.

[Karl Henning]

Is far right xenophobia really on the rise? Or is it just sensationalized through media stories?

And assuming it is, simply blaming it on Trump is nonsense. You can call it far right xenophobia or whatever, but it is a reaction against globalism. Let's say Trump really were as xenophobic as you say- he would be a symptom of a reaction against something that is being forced on others, not the cause.

It's not like people look at him and go, "Oh, he's so cool. He sounds like he's racist, so I'll be racist, too!"



Yeah, and you are falling for the bait, as expected. He even mentioned PewDiePie, so I wouldn't take him seriously.

Trump did not originate the virulent racism. He is a uniquely dangerous bigot, all the same.

[Florestan]

you were obviously tired and emotional.

I admit I was, but either you misunderstood me or I didn't express myself clear. I have never claimed that schools, roads and hospitals are communist. I was tired, not nuts. What I wanted to say is that the idea that people have the same infrastructure necessities, which is true, can be construed as an argument for "benevolent" dictatorships: if they provide people with schools, roads, hospitals, homes and food, what else do they need and why would they object to being ruled by dictators? I have seen this argument made in Romania's case; some people seriously think that if Ceausescu's rule had been succesful economically people would have never revolted against him. So my idea is, I agree that a good government should see to it that roads, schools and hospitals are built, maintained and operated properly, but there's more to it than that.

Africa had kingdoms, yes. Now, there I was really tired. Actually, I posted that about 2 AM so my mind wasn't particularly awaken. I should really never post anything after 10 PM.

[Madiel]

So my idea is, I agree that a good government should see to it that roads, schools and hospitals are built, maintained and operated properly, but there's more to it than that.

But I wasn't talking about governments. At all. I was talking about people. The people who make use of roads, schools, hospitals and so on.

I didn't make the slightest indication as to whether or not those things were being built by governments or private corporations or whatever. The topic was immigration and/or population. An increase in the number of people requires management of the infrastructure in some way, was the general point, and the more specific point was that it doesn't matter WHERE those people have come from. Their basic infrastructure needs are the same.

[Florestan]

But I wasn't talking about governments. At all. I was talking about people. The people who make use of roads, schools, hospitals and so on.

I didn't make the slightest indication as to whether or not those things were being built by governments or private corporations or whatever.

Yep, definitely I should not post during late night hours, when my reading comprehension skills seems to decline significantly. Honestly, there was a mess in my head. After wishing you good night I fell asleep in a matter of minutes.

[Florestan]

An increase in the number of people requires management of the infrastructure in some way, was the general point, and the more specific point was that it doesn't matter WHERE those people have come from. Their basic infrastructure needs are the same.

Yes, agreed.

[Madiel]

Well I'm glad you got some rest. 

[Todd]

I want to watch Joe do pushups.