Past Purchases (CLOSED)

[M forever]

Ravel, Daphnis et Chloe. Myung Whun Chung, Orchestre Philharmonique de Radio France. (DG)
Was looking for a modern recording of the complete Daphnis, and found this. No idea how it sounds like, yet.

It sounds pretty nice. A little hazy, not really well defined in the bass, there is a tendency for things to get a little clogged when it gets louder. The choir is a little too "impressionistically" recorded, too. Not really bad, though. Nice playing, too, although some of the string playing in high registers is a little strained and some of the wind solo playing is not as characterful as in some other versions. Positively noted: unlike some other French orchestras, this one still plays the French bassoon ("basson"). Overall, a nice album.

For a good D+C in modern sound, you could still have chosen more wisely, though:




The sound here is a little on the bright side (what some people call "early digital", even though this one isn't that early in the digital era), but on the plus side, the textures are very clearly outlined and the very impressive wind solo playing is captured pretty close up. And some of the wind playing, especially woodwind solos, really is very impressive in this version:


And this still is very good in every respect:


Or, in the totally remastered version  



I would like to hear this, but haven't had an opportunity to yet:

[not edward]

I'd been looking for an alternative take on these two masses, and this looked extremely appealing at only $5.

[Kullervo]

[hautbois]

For a good D+C in modern sound, you could still have chosen more wisely, though:



The sound here is a little on the bright side (what some people call "early digital", even though this one isn't that early in the digital era), but on the plus side, the textures are very clearly outlined and the very impressive wind solo playing is captured pretty close up. And some of the wind playing, especially woodwind solos, really is very impressive in this version:


I would like to hear this, but haven't had an opportunity to yet:

I could have easily chosen any of these recordings if only they were available in my local store, considering my bias towards the Concertgebouw, Boulez, and THE Orchestre National de France. Tough luck. Thanks for the advise, at least now i know what to look for if i am ready for another version.

Howard

[Lilas Pastia]

I forgot: I don't promote any recordings. I just point out what I find good and bad, and why. Musically inexperienced people like you *could* learn something from that, but somebody who makes arguments like "would not have recognised "nuanced" if it had hit him in the face with "nuanced" written all over it" is probably way too far from even beginning to learn the first things about music, so I don't see much hope for you.

It is good psychology to discuss (even negatively) someone's opinion, behaviour or habits, but it is bad psychology - and plain bad manners - to berate the person. That being said, you're 100% right about the Steinberg BSO disc (a monument to great orchestral culture), and Hector's statements are plainly uninformed.

On the subject of musical culture, I personally think it's a difficult issue in a forum like this one. People who know are sometimes unable to - or uninterested in - sharing subjective feelings about music. And people who don't know (like me and many others here) sometimes have trouble conveying their impressions (however enthusiastic and opinionated) in a knowledgeable manner. Definitely a case where a language barrier may be the cause for bad communication.

There. I said it.

[Bogey]

Is this in hand Corey, or on its way?

[Kullervo]

Is this in hand Corey, or on its way?

Just ordered from Amazon. There doesn't seem to be many Landini recordings on the market (though, the Medieval period in general is pretty paltry regarding recordings).

[Don]

Nuanced? Steinberg? Steinberg would not have recognised "nuanced" if it had hit him in the face with "nuanced" written all over it. Why do you promote these second rate recordings?

Although Hector is talking to M forever, I also promoted the Steinberg/Holst.  I just can't imagine why Hector has a poor opinion of it.  If Hector had stated that he found the most recent Rattle/Holst second-rate, I could sort of agree with him.

[Solitary Wanderer]

Just ordered this two volume set on Amazon. Greatly looking forward to reading this!

[M forever]

It is good psychology to discuss (even negatively) someone's opinion, behaviour or habits, but it is bad psychology - and plain bad manners - to berate the person.

I completely agree. That's why a statement like

Nuanced? Steinberg? Steinberg would not have recognised "nuanced" if it had hit him in the face with "nuanced" written all over it.

can unfortunately only be answered in the way I did. An actual discussion about musical parameters would be more fun, but there is no potential for that in "opinions" voiced like this:

As for interpretation, well, he has no idea where to start. Perhaps that is why the performance hits the rocks so soon after Mars. Superficial at best and irrelevant.

On the subject of musical culture, I personally think it's a difficult issue in a forum like this one. People who know are sometimes unable to - or uninterested in - sharing subjective feelings about music. And people who don't know (like me and many others here) sometimes have trouble conveying their impressions (however enthusiastic and opinionated) in a knowledgeable manner. Definitely a case where a language barrier may be the cause for bad communication.

There. I said it.

Don't be so hard on yourself. Talking about music is very difficult for everyone, no matter what the knowledge background of a person is. But at least you or me or a lot of other people at least try. If someone who obviously doesn't have anything of interest to say about music and interpretations doesn't even try to make some points (well, how could he, if he doesn't have any to make...) but bores everybody with inflated nonsense, there is nothing that can be done about that, and no basis for even a brief discussion.

[Bogey]

Just ordered from Amazon. There doesn't seem to be many Landini recordings on the market (though, the Medieval period in general is pretty paltry regarding recordings).

Please report out when you get a chance Corey.

[Daverz]

ELGAR In the South; Grania & Diarmid; Symphonies Nos. 1 & 2; Introduction & Allegro Op. 47; Serenade. London Philharmonic Orchestra / Sir Adrian Boult. EMI British Composers 2cds

Mainly for the symphonies.  Via MDT.

[Kullervo]

Yes, please report out ..........

But you really mean... don't report out.

[Hector]

I forgot: I don't promote any recordings. I just point out what I find good and bad, and why. Musically inexperienced people like you *could* learn something from that, but somebody who makes arguments like "would not have recognised "nuanced" if it had hit him in the face with "nuanced" written all over it" is probably way too far from even beginning to learn the first things about music, so I don't see much hope for you.

Oh dear, I seem to have struck a nerve, again, that has led you to personal insult. Never mind, I understand.

However, has it drawn you back to this recording and enabled you to compare it to others?

BBC's CD Review came down in favour of Levi (not Spano) and when I heard the whole recording there was no doubt in my mind that his was a powerful and dutiful (he obeyed the composers instructions) performance beautifully recorded.

But, knowing nothing about music, whereas you know squat about performance, of course, I cling to my Boult because I was brought up on it, sad creature that I am (I am being heavily ironic, here, just in case you actually think that I think that I am a sad creature).

As for Rattle...better than Steinberg, but then, who isn't.

As for Karajan and the BPO, the recording, for its time, is atrocious and yet was promoted as 'First Choice' for a period.

Now, go away and give us your convoluted views on German music of which you are, clearly, an expert

[M forever]

Interesting that you can still not support your views in other ways than to tell us what this or that review said or which recording "was promoted" (by whom? by some evil secret society which controls the world, like Opus Dei?). Can you make any specific musical points to support your "opinions"? I don't think you can. But you could prove me wrong.

You also have to work on your putdowns. They are on the level of an insulted 11-year old. Can't you do better than that?

[Harry]

Interesting that you can still not support your views in other ways than to tell us what this or that review said or which recording "was promoted" (by whom? by some evil secret society which controls the world, like Opus Dei?). Can you make any specific musical points to support your "opinions"? I don't think you can. But you could prove me wrong.

You also have to work on your putdowns. They are on the level of an insulted 11-year old. Can't you do better than that?

It must be hard for you to surpress the eagerness to slash out at others, instead of learning to be polite, and not to offend with every word that comes out of you.
Prove me, that I am wrong dear fellow.
And no, I cannot do better than that, in case you were wondering or not....

[M forever]

Which level of discouse do you like better, Harry?

This:

Not true. Steinberg's Planets is an outstanding recording, a document of great orchestral culture and a very nuanced interpretation. Interpretation is more or less a matter of "opinion" though, but the craftsmanship displayed by orchestra and conductor really aren't. That goes far beyond playing the right notes at the same time. The way the orchestra plays, and how they play together are great and very stylish. The same goes for the accompanying "Also sprach Zarathustra" - the playing there is so stylish I could mistake it for the Staatskapelle Dresden.

Or this reply:

Nuanced? Steinberg? Steinberg would not have recognised "nuanced" if it had hit him in the face with "nuanced" written all over it. Why do you promote these second rate recordings?

As for interpretation, well, he has no idea where to start. Perhaps that is why the performance hits the rocks so soon after Mars. Superficial at best and irrelevant.

[Harry]

I was not talking about that M, but rather over the language you use to prove someone wrong.
You must realize that words can stab someone painfully, while the gain is zero for you and others.

[M forever]

Well, Harry, we are all shaped by pour environment, aren't we? You have to forgive me, I am not some sophisticated rich dude residing in material wealth in the cozy provincial Netherlands, I grew up direly poor on the streets of Berlin and only managed to study both music and engineering and create a career for myself against all odds by brutally hard work, talent, and determination. That makes you a little hard, I guess. Around where I come from, we just call things the way we see them.

But maybe I can learn something from you here!

I was not talking about that M, but rather over the language you use to prove someone wrong.

This is what my reply was. What's so wrong about that?

Not true. Steinberg's Planets is an outstanding recording, a document of great orchestral culture and a very nuanced interpretation. Interpretation is more or less a matter of "opinion" though, but the craftsmanship displayed by orchestra and conductor really aren't. That goes far beyond playing the right notes at the same time. The way the orchestra plays, and how they play together are great and very stylish. The same goes for the accompanying "Also sprach Zarathustra" - the playing there is so stylish I could mistake it for the Staatskapelle Dresden.

And what's better about this, and more "elegant"? I still don't see that:

Nuanced? Steinberg? Steinberg would not have recognised "nuanced" if it had hit him in the face with "nuanced" written all over it. Why do you promote these second rate recordings?

As for interpretation, well, he has no idea where to start. Perhaps that is why the performance hits the rocks so soon after Mars. Superficial at best and irrelevant.

I think my replies to that were very adequate. Hunting hypocrites and pseudos is seen as a virtue where I come from.

[Brian]

Here's a suggestion - why don't we all drop this infantile matter and return this thread to those who wish to post their "Purchases today." rather than arguing about who is a more intelligent, cogent writer, or whether "sophisticated rich guys" are inherently less honest (or more polite) than everyone else. Such matters can be pursued in the off-topic board, of course, or by personal message...