Please Suggest a CD Set of Tchaikovsky 4, 5, 6

[Brian]

Brian linked to a location recently where those films from the 70s can be downloaded.

Is this the performance of which you speak? The link leads to No 5, but I see the Fourth and Sixth under the "Similar Videos" tab to the right.

[uffeviking]

In my collection of LVDs are No. 4, 5, and 6 performed with the Wiener Philharmonikers but it lists the 4th as performed and recorded September 1984. Would there be a great difference?

[M forever]

For you, probably not. It's all nice videos of nice people playing nice music. For people who notice such differences:

I actually prefer Karajan's late recordings of 4-6 with the WP. Like many of the recordings he made in his last years, these have a spontaneity and even a certain degree of roughness - or maybe not roughness, but simply less focus on polishing the sound and filing off corners -, elements which were often present in his concerts, but not in many of the studio recordings made in the 60s and especially 70s. Plus the sound of the recordings DG made in Vienna then is much better than the contemporary ones they made in Berlin and most of what they did there in the 70s.

[M forever]

Is this the performance of which you speak? The link leads to No 5, but I see the Fourth and Sixth under the "Similar Videos" tab to the right.

Yes, this is what I spoke of. This was obviously filmed in Berlin in the 70s. When exactly I don't know. The database on karajan.org has been revamped, and now what used to be an excellent research tool for information about HvK's concerts, films, and recordings simply totally sucks and is completely useless. Just in time for the "Karajan year". I used the contact form there to insult them but also to ask (nicely) for the old database to be restored the way it was.

[RebLem]

Well, in his absence, I'll put in a good word for it. I have the 4 and 5 by Monteux on vinyl (don't recall if I have the 6th and can say nothing about that), and find them an interesting, beautiful and very different take than the Mravinsky interps.   Dirk

I have the big 15-CD RCA Monteux retrospective box.  It contains Vol 14, which is a 2 CD subset of the Tchaikovsky Syms 4, 5, & 6 with the BSO.  It and the 2 CD set, which used to be generally available separately, seem now to have been deleted from the catalog.  However, I went to Google Shopping, and found it is still available from Tower for $19.24.  http://www.tower.com/details/details.cfm?wapi=106544941 

I urge you to grab it, even though its older than the Mravinsky.  While its very exciting, the Mravinsky seems to me far too frenetic to satisfy over the long haul.  Day in and day out, Monteux's nuanced performance satisfies the soul.  Not lacking for drama, he still lets the music breathe.  Mravinsky plays at a wind sprint pace; Monteux is a well paced, long distance runner.  You'll love it.

[Holden]

weird, haven't seen Iago burst in here and recommend a Monteux/Boston Symphony set.

Ferenc Fricsay also recorded Tchaik 4,5 and 6. Loved his 5th, but the rest seems very difficult to find...

All at amazon on this page

I have both the 6ths mentioned plus 4 and 5 and highly recommend them.

[uffeviking]

A lot of Tchaikovsky 4, 5, and 6 to choose from. I went through my LVDs and played this afternoon a No. 4, not mentioned yet. It is from the series of six performances in Die Alte Oper Frankfurt, now available in DVD.

Vladimir Fedoseyev is conducting The Moscow Radio Symphony Orchestra in a thrilling performance with a true Russian flair. - Hush, I hear you, you in the back with your bass fiddle, and remember well your admonition of the mistaken believe that same nationality of conductor, orchestra and composer accomplish better results! - Fedoseyev is a more athletic and visually enthusiastic conductor than von Karajan - Karajan's baton has never somersaulted through the air into the viola section as Fedoseyev's does! - but the Allegro con fuoco shakes the rafters of the Alte Oper, and so does the applause of the audience.

Check out this one, as well as the rest of the series!

[uffeviking]

More on the DVD here:

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=176228&album_group=2

[Gurn Blanston]

More on the DVD here:

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=176228&album_group=2

That looks like a very interesting set. One hopes that they will box up the 6 DVD's into a single unit some day, and they can be had for a reasonable price.



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[Sergeant Rock]

Since you already have Mravinsky and most of the other sets are simply less than what he did there, you should go for a complete contrast and treat yourself to this:



Bernstein's late recordings with the NYP.
Totally indulgent, totally over the top emotional, totally LB. In other words, this is so wrong on so many levels (especially the 6th), but there is so much musical personality and conviction behind it that it is a trip that is really worth taking.

When I read the title of this thread, my choices came to me instantaneously. But you already have Mravinsky and M has said what I was going to say about Bernstein. So, consider this one more vote for late Lenny....and be prepared to be blown away by that "Mahlerian" finale in the Sixth. Utterly unique.

Sarge

[Iago]

weird, haven't seen Iago burst in here and recommend a Monteux/Boston Symphony set.

..

That Monteux set needs no recommendation. Tschaikovsky, performed by a great orchestra and great conductor, recorded in one of the great recording venues in the world (Sym Hall in Boston) certainly MUST be too good to be considered by the "aficionados" on this forum. Anybody that doesn't already know about it is beyond redemption anyway. In fact it's too good and both musically correct and satisfying to be coveted by the great many a**holes on this forum.

[uffeviking]

No argument with that statement! Why do you think I recommended The Moscow Symphony Orchestra conducted by Vladimir Fedoseyev performing in the Frankfurt Alte Oper? Those old opera houses have great acoustics; Russian musicians know how to play the works of their composers, have it in their genes; and Fedoseyev is presently one of their best! 

[hautbois]

That Monteux set needs no recommendation. Tschaikovsky, performed by a great orchestra and great conductor, recorded in one of the great recording venues in the world (Sym Hall in Boston) certainly MUST be too good to be considered by the "aficionados" on this forum. Anybody that doesn't already know about it is beyond redemption anyway. In fact it's too good and both musically correct and satisfying to be coveted by the great many a**holes on this forum.

Monteux is probably the king of creating a line throughout a piece of music that extends from the 1st second to the last. Never breathless, always logic, sometimes a bit over the top and not exactly written on the score, but never changing one single note, which was what a lot of big conductors did during that era. Anyone whom has listened to his Franck D minor or Elgar Enigma would know exactly what i am talking about. Magical conducting.

Howard

[M forever]

No argument with that statement! Why do you think I recommended The Moscow Symphony Orchestra conducted by Vladimir Fedoseyev performing in the Frankfurt Alte Oper?

Apparently because you are blind and deaf:

Those old opera houses have great acoustics; Russian musicians know how to play the works of their composers, have it in their genes; and Fedoseyev is presently one of their best! 

The Alte Oper in Frankfurt is only an old opera house on the outside. It was nearly completely destroyed in WWII, like most old halls and theaters in Germany. Only the outer walls remained standing, but heavily damaged, too. The interior was completely rebuilt in the 70s. That should be pretty obvious in the video. The acoustics aren't that great, definitely on the dry and boxy side. So no "old opera house with great acoustics" there. It's not even an opera house anymore. It is a concert hall now. That you can't see and hear that does not really qualify you as someone whose recommendation we can trust. You obviously imagine things based on false informations and preconceptions.

The idea that musical knowledge is in the genes is bizarre and verges on the racist. Cultural environment and acquisition through immersion in it are what counts. Fedoseyev and his musicians definitely have that, but not because it is in their genes. Fedoseyev is a rather one-dimensional conductor though. His recordings of these symphonies on Melodiya are basically like Mravinsky in style but not nearly as good and nuanced - but they appear " spectacular" because of the glaringly bright recordings by Radio Moscow. It  might still be interesting to watch this video, but not for the reasons you gave - these are mostly imagined.

[M forever]

When I read the title of this thread, my choices came to me instantaneously. But you already have Mravinsky and M has said what I was going to say about Bernstein. So, consider this one more vote for late Lenny....and be prepared to be blown away by that "Mahlerian" finale in the Sixth. Utterly unique.

Sarge

That was my line of thinking, too. When people ask for recommendations and tell us what they already know, like hornteacher did here, nobody thinks about what might be most interesting, stimulating and contrasting for the poster. Everybody just blablas about whatever recordings they happen to like or know. I am pretty sure some of the "recommendations"  here are given by people who maybe only know 2 or 3 versions of these symphonies. There are many, many, many good and still quite a few very good performances of these symphonies available. When making a recommendation, one shouldn't just think of one's own preferences. One should take into account what might be good and interesting for the poster who asks for advice to listen to at this particular time, based on what he already knows and doesn't know.

[uffeviking]

It's not even an opera house anymore. It is a concert hall now. .

Pssst, Michael: Alte Oper is the official name of the building! 

[M forever]

Psssst, uffeviking: I know that. I have played there several times.

It still isn't an "old opera house with great acoustics" in anything but name and the outside skin. That you can't see in the video that it is a concert hall now - it is not one of those halls where you have a stage opening and the orchestra sits inside a shell, like in the Semperoper when they play concerts, it has no theatrical stage anymore, just an orcheatra platform - and that it was very obviously (re)built fairly recently really completely discredits you as someone who we can listen to for a recommendation. You apparently read "Alte Oper" and think it must be an old opera house so it must have great acoustics, and you read Russian names, so you think they must have the music "in their genes", but in reality, you don't see or hear any of these things. Which is OK, as long as you have fun and enjoy the nice music and the nice people in the videos, but you really shouldn't make recommendations based on nothing but silly cliches. If it was at least based on what you really hear or see, then it could be an interesting personal view. But you see a modern concert hall and think it is an old opera house because of the name of the building, that really means you have no clue what you are talking about. BTW, the reason it is called " Alte" Oper is that they built another opera house to replace the destroyed one which was then rebuilt as a concert hall.

[uffeviking]

Oh my dear M forever, I am so grateful to have you here at GMG to correct my ignorance while expressing my opinions of classical music performances and performers. I should not be so bold and talk about my personal feelings when hearing classical music in the presence of you, the professional musician, one who has displayed his artistry in many European and American music venues; I, the person with only a grade school education in playing the recorder but a person who gets moved to tears or is amused by classical music performances. - Come to think of it, I recall playing on my recorder Handel's Largo during graduation exercises to enthusiastic applause of the audience. Does that count? -

I was assured of my correct outlook on classical music by a longtime friend, a professional conductor, when I asked him how he manages to keep track of all the notes in Stravinsky's Le Sacre du Printemps and his reply: "Just sit back and enjoy the music I play for you, I'll take care of the mechanics. 

[M forever]

Are you on some kind of medication? You can listen to/watch whatever and enjoy whatever you like, and anybody here can share their opinions and impressions.

What I am saying is that if you watch a video which was extremely obviously shot in a modern concert hall but you imagine what you are seeing is a performance in an "old opera house" because that venue carries that name for historical reasons, then that does not reflect very well on your powers of perception. You also imagined that the acoustics must be great because, it is, after all, "an old opera house", but you are wrong there, too, the Alte Oper is acoustically fairly problematical, like way too many concert halls built in that period.

That just means that you don't see and hear too well and don't really understand what you are seeing and hearing. Which is OK, as long as you "sit back and enjoy", but you can't expect to be taken seriously in a discussion then. That has nothing to do with whether you played the recorder or not (I did, too, when I was 6 or 7 or so) and that has nothing to do with what I did or didn't so musically do either. So, please go ahead, continue to simmer in the juice of your own ignorance, and continue to ignore if you are factually wrong about things you imagine to hear or see, like a wonderful old opera house which is actually a mediocre modern concert hall. Once, again, your superficial knowledge of German and German culture has played a trick on you. Looks like that stuff isn't "in the genes" after all. Just be a little more self-critical, then your opinions can become more interesting and informative to read for others.

[Bonehelm]

Are you on some kind of medication? You can listen to/watch whatever and enjoy whatever you like, and anybody here can share their opinions and impressions.

What I am saying is that if you watch a video which was extremely obviously shot in a modern concert hall but you imagine what you are seeing is a performance in an "old opera house" because that venue carries that name for historical reasons, then that does not reflect very well on your powers of perception. You also imagined that the acoustics must be great because, it is, after all, "an old opera house", but you are wrong there, too, the Alte Oper is acoustically fairly problematical, like way too many concert halls built in that period.

That just means that you don't see and hear too well and don't really understand what you are seeing and hearing. Which is OK, as long as you "sit back and enjoy", but you can't expect to be taken seriously in a discussion then. That has nothing to do with whether you played the recorder or not (I did, too, when I was 6 or 7 or so) and that has nothing to do with what I did or didn't so musically do either. So, please go ahead, continue to simmer in the juice of your own ignorance, and continue to ignore if you are factually wrong about things you imagine to hear or see, like a wonderful old opera house which is actually a mediocre modern concert hall. Once, again, your superficial knowledge of German and German culture has played a trick on you. Looks like that stuff isn't "in the genes" after all. Just be a little more self-critical, then your opinions can become more interesting and informative to read for others.

My opnion and impression on you is that you are a chocolate chip cookie !!!!!!!!!! 









Hey, it's called freedom of expression.