The British Composers Thread

[vers la flamme]

I received the 'Albion's Glory' book yesterday and started browsing through it and reading the sections on Robin Milford and Patrick Hadley. Some of the material was familiar to me but not all of it  - Patrick Hadley, (the composer of the beautiful, sensitive and eloquent 'The Trees So High'), for example, when in a bad mood, telling his students to '**** OFF'. The book is over 600 pages long and I'm very happy to have it. The book is Anglo centric, so no discussion of Daniel Jones, Mathias, Hoddinott etc. Stanford is the only exception.

Would love to read this.

[Roasted Swan]

I received the 'Albion's Glory' book yesterday and started browsing through it and reading the sections on Robin Milford and Patrick Hadley. Some of the material was familiar to me but not all of it  - Patrick Hadley, (the composer of the beautiful, sensitive and eloquent 'The Trees So High'), for example, when in a bad mood, telling his students to '**** OFF'. The book is over 600 pages long and I'm very happy to have it. The book is Anglo centric, so no discussion of Daniel Jones, Mathias, Hoddinott etc. Stanford is the only exception.

my copy arrived today!

An immediate oddity..... just literally flicked the book open and it happened to be on the discography for Elgar.  Very oddly the old Barenboim/LPO/Sony versions are the preferred symphonies (good but not THE performances for anyone I'd suggest) and elsewhere he lists releases EMI and HMV discs... neither of which still exist as a label.  Whether or not they have become Warner releases I don't know.  So the discography is out of date even as the book is published!

[Biffo]

my copy arrived today!

An immediate oddity..... just literally flicked the book open and it happened to be on the discography for Elgar.  Very oddly the old Barenboim/LPO/Sony versions are the preferred symphonies (good but not THE performances for anyone I'd suggest) and elsewhere he lists releases EMI and HMV discs... neither of which still exist as a label.  Whether or not they have become Warner releases I don't know.  So the discography is out of date even as the book is published!

The most recent incarnation I have of Barbirolli's recordings of the symphonies are in the Barbirolli box under the Warner imprint. I have Boult on Lyrita and EMI Classics (plus numerous others).

The only Barenboim recordings I have heard are his relativeley recent set with his Berlin orchestra. They were OK but nothing special. He did do an outstanding Gerontius with the Berlin Philharmonic but the performance that was released on disc was a different one with the Staatskapelle Berlin and I didn't enjoy it as much.

Edit: I bought Albion's Glory as a Kindle book yesterday but hadn't looked at it before making this posting. I checked the discography of Elgar and found it most odd. The author seems to be a big fan of Barenboim as he selects so many of his Elgar recordings. Looking at who he chooses and who he leaves out I get the impression of someone deliberately trying to be controversial.

[Roasted Swan]

The most recent incarnation I have of Barbirolli's recordings of the symphonies are in the Barbirolli box under the Warner imprint. I have Boult on Lyrita and EMI Classics (plus numerous others).

The only Barenboim recordings I have heard are his relativeley recent set with his Berlin orchestra. They were OK but nothing special. He did do an outstanding Gerontius with the Berlin Philharmonic but the performance that was released on disc was a different one with the Staatskapelle Berlin and I didn't enjoy it as much.

Edit: I bought Albion's Glory as a Kindle book yesterday but hadn't looked at it before making this posting. I checked the discography of Elgar and found it most odd. The author seems to be a big fan of Barenboim as he selects so many of his Elgar recordings. Looking at who he chooses and who he leaves out I get the impression of someone deliberately trying to be controversial.

My immediate and by definition initial impression is of a "coffee table" book.  Quite good at giving a general biography of composers with passing references to major works but in effect a very superficial book.  No real appreciation of the music or the composers just a list of "interesting things".  Of course a major part of the debate will be over composers included and those left out.  The curiosity in the 50 "best of the rest" is the inclusion of 2 names I've never heard of - Andrew Downes and John Jeffreys - I can only assume a personal connection.  But including Julius Harrison - in essence a conductor who composed but not Coates or Ketelbey (in the Light Music field) or Joubert does seem odd.

I also read in the section about CD's how (to paraphrase) how lovely it was to sit in your living room with a glass of claret listening to good music on a decent hi-fi.  This made me twitch SO MUCH.  Talk about reinforcing sterotypes of CM being the domain of white middle class middle aged men.  What a kind of casually ignorant elitist snobbery that is!

[vandermolen]

My immediate and by definition initial impression is of a "coffee table" book.  Quite good at giving a general biography of composers with passing references to major works but in effect a very superficial book.  No real appreciation of the music or the composers just a list of "interesting things".  Of course a major part of the debate will be over composers included and those left out.  The curiosity in the 50 "best of the rest" is the inclusion of 2 names I've never heard of - Andrew Downes and John Jeffreys - I can only assume a personal connection.  But including Julius Harrison - in essence a conductor who composed but not Coates or Ketelbey (in the Light Music field) or Joubert does seem odd.

I also read in the section about CD's how (to paraphrase) how lovely it was to sit in your living room with a glass of claret listening to good music on a decent hi-fi.  This made me twitch SO MUCH.  Talk about reinforcing sterotypes of CM being the domain of white middle class middle aged men.  What a kind of casually ignorant elitist snobbery that is!

I was disappointed that there was no mention of Philip Sainton either. Ok, I'll now settle down with my glass of claret to listen to some Elgar!

[Roy Bland]

I was disappointed that there was no mention of Philip Sainton either. Ok, I'll now settle down with my glass of claret to listen to some Elgar!

IMHO it's Sainton's masterwork

[vandermolen]

IMHO it's Sainton's masterwork

Totally agree, although, for me, 'Nadir' is his most moving work.
The double CD set below is one of my favourites as it also includes Patrick Hadley's undoubted masterpiece 'The Trees So High' as well as Sainton's Baxian 'The Island':

[relm1]

Totally agree, although, for me, 'Nadir' is his most moving work.
The double CD set below is one of my favourites as it also includes Patrick Hadley's undoubted masterpiece 'The Trees So High' as well as Sainton's Baxian 'The Island':

I love that double cd too!  All fine works and excellent sound.

[Irons]

I was disappointed that there was no mention of Philip Sainton either. Ok, I'll now settle down with my glass of claret to listen to some Elgar!

Philip Sainton is beyond neglected. Hadley features in Frank Howes "The English Musical Renaissance" (1966) three pages no less. From Sainton not a word. The Lyrita catalogue, again no Sainton.
Coincidently Jeffrey you choose a film score as Sainton's masterwork. My wife who has only a passing interest in classical music commented last week as I was listening to The Island "that sounds like film music".

[vandermolen]

Philip Sainton is beyond neglected. Hadley features in Frank Howes "The English Musical Renaissance" (1966) three pages no less. From Sainton not a word. The Lyrita catalogue, again no Sainton.
Coincidently Jeffrey you choose a film score as Sainton's masterwork. My wife who has only a passing interest in classical music commented last week as I was listening to The Island "that sounds like film music".

Well, I think that 'Mrs Irons' is right Lol! 'The Island' does have a cinematic aspect to it. In fact, much of the music that I like sounds 'like film music' but I don't regard that as a problem. Alwyn, for example, who did write a lot of film music is IMO a very fine composer. Sainton thought that he had a symphony within him but other demands on his time and a pessimistic view of his own life mitigated against it. I wonder, in a way, if 'Moby Dick' was his symphony after all.

[vandermolen]

I love that double cd too!  All fine works and excellent sound.

That and the Estonian one (featuring music by Eller and Raid's magnificent 1st Symphony) are my favourites in the twofer series.

[Irons]

Well, I think that 'Mrs Irons' is right Lol! 'The Island' does have a cinematic aspect to it. In fact, much of the music that I like sounds 'like film music' but I don't regard that as a problem. Alwyn, for example, who did write a lot of film music is IMO a very fine composer. Sainton thought that he had a symphony within him but other demands on his time and a pessimistic view of his own life mitigated against it. I wonder, in a way, if 'Moby Dick' was his symphony after all.

She usually is, Jeffrey! The comment was meant in a positive way - she loves "West Side Story" with a passion. Picking up on your point that "Moby Dick" was the best symphony Sainton never wrote, Howes makes a similar observation of Hadley. Both "The Hills" and "The Trees so High" are symphonies in all but name. Hadley, "one of the few composers to overcome recalcitrance of folk-song and symphony to each other". 

[vandermolen]

She usually is, Jeffrey! The comment was meant in a positive way - she loves "West Side Story" with a passion. Picking up on your point that "Moby Dick" was the best symphony Sainton never wrote, Howes makes a similar observation of Hadley. Both "The Hills" and "The Trees so High" are symphonies in all but name. Hadley, "one of the few composers to overcome recalcitrance of folk-song and symphony to each other".

I love West Side Story too - I expect that it is what Bernstein will be best remembered for, much as I like his first two symphonies. (Very) occasionally my wife comments positively about something that I am listening to (Klaus Egge's String Quartet for example) but most of the time I receive comments like 'IS THAT WORLD WAR THREE GOING ON IN THERE?'

[Roasted Swan]

She usually is, Jeffrey! The comment was meant in a positive way - she loves "West Side Story" with a passion. Picking up on your point that "Moby Dick" was the best symphony Sainton never wrote, Howes makes a similar observation of Hadley. Both "The Hills" and "The Trees so High" are symphonies in all but name. Hadley, "one of the few composers to overcome recalcitrance of folk-song and symphony to each other".

In the light of the mention of Hadley earlier, I dug out my copy of "The Hills" - still the one/only recording I think but its a cracker.  In this work Hadley manages a really effective fusion of folksong/visionary/pastoralism - it certainly deserves to be better known/played more often



The "problem" in programming terms is the forces required (3 soloists and full choir/orch) set against its relative brevity and unfamiliarity.  Not something to attract a choral society or a professional orchestra sadly..... 

[vandermolen]

In the light of the mention of Hadley earlier, I dug out my copy of "The Hills" - still the one/only recording I think but its a cracker.  In this work Hadley manages a really effective fusion of folksong/visionary/pastoralism - it certainly deserves to be better known/played more often



The "problem" in programming terms is the forces required (3 soloists and full choir/orch) set against its relative brevity and unfamiliarity.  Not something to attract a choral society or a professional orchestra sadly.....

I played 'The Hills' again today and completely agree with your positive assessment of the work RS. I found it to be both moving and memorable. Perhaps it doesn't have quite the same sense of inevitability as 'The Trees So High' but it has been a significant discovery for me, so thanks for alerting us to it. I bought the single CD release when it first came out but, for whatever reason' it did not impress me in the way that it does now:

[Roasted Swan]

So I went for my regular dog walk this morning in the beautiful Somerset countryside.  Accompanying me today was C H H Parry and his first symphony from this disc;



Now it strikes me that he's not a composer who gets much/any love on this site.  I'm as guilty as anyone pigeon-holing Parry (and his ilk) as not-Elgar / not-RVW etc as though by failing to be the equal of the truly great they are then somehow to be completely dismissed.  Yet at the same time we all lap up endless (excellent and interesting) symphonies on labels like CPO of composers who are not-Brahms / not-Wagner / not-Bruckner etc etc giving them the attention and praise they deserve without worrying that they are not in the absolute top rank.  Because make no mistake this Parry Symphony - and indeed all five of his symphonies are very much the equal of those "CPO-Symphonies" for want of a better term.  Perhaps I was just in a particularly responsive mood this morning (it does happen very occasionally) but I really enjoyed this a lot.  Worth remembering - as discussed on this site in the past - Boult's last studio recording was of Parry.  Who I am to argue with Boult about the composer's stature and merits!

On a tangent - its the annual publication and then moan about this year's Proms programme.  The obvious disappointment for fans of British music is that in RVW's 150th year the offering is relatively modest with no major but unusual works getting an outing.  Oddly Ethel Smyth does well with 3 major works including the 2nd complete Proms performance of the Wreckers opera in under 30 years.  Bax gets just Tintagel, no Delius or Arnold or Finzi or Moeran (as exemplars) at all as far as a cursory glance through the programme suggested.  Elgar does reasonably well, Tippett 4 is programmed with RVW 4 (a programme to get the orchestra practicing hard!!)  Holst gets The Planets but just the Planets. Doreen Carwithen has 3(!) pieces.  Parry has his 2 standard 'ceremonial' works; "I was Glad" & "Jerusalem" thereby reinforcing exactly the pigeon-holing I mentioned above.  Walton sneaks in with 2 but one is again ceremonial - only the Partita at all 'novel'..  Interesting to see John Wilson continuing his metamorphosing from "showbiz" conductor to "serious" mainstream.  So the Sinfonia of London is back with a British programme (hence Tintagel) but no film/show Prom from "his" orchestra.  Manze of course did exactly the same thing but from Baroque to mainstream.

[Maestro267]

I for one welcome the inclusion of Smyth and Carwithen on the programme along with many others.

[Roasted Swan]

I for one welcome the inclusion of Smyth and Carwithen on the programme along with many others.

I was not critiquing there being Smyth or Carwithen - it was more simple observation/surprise (more Smyth than Shostakovich - not often you get to say that.......)

[Roy Bland]

for centenary
https://carwithenmusicfestival.co.uk/

[Roasted Swan]

https://carwithenmusicfestival.co.uk/

there's some really interesting music in that well-planned festival.  I hope they get the attendances they deserve.....