Europe at War

[Todd]

I do feel like there's too much media taking a particular side.

The corporate press is unabashedly pro-war.  Partly as a result, a lot of people are unabashedly pro-war.

I'd forgotten that Todd's views used to be the ones of the left

Some of the views used to be held by the anti-war "left" in the US, some by libertarians, some by conservative non-interventionists.  (You will see some people get confused and misuse the word isolationism and its variants.  That is not uncommon.)

I've a Japanese friend who once told me angrily that "America killed more people in war than anyone!"

Your Japanese friend was correct when considering the post-war era.  Prior to that, some other countries, including Japan, boasted rather high kill totals in their wars. 

I mean, I'm not ready to abandon Europe and I wouldn't be happy to see Putin stomp around unchecked.

Europe as a whole is the highest income region of the world with more wealth than the US.  Europe is home to some world class defense contractors.  Some European countries have accomplished military histories.  Europe is more than capable of checking Russia without US assistance.  The conditions that existed in 1949 are long gone.  NATO has not been needed since 1991.  Russia in 2022 is not the USSR in the wake of WWII.  Leaving European defense to Europe is not abandoning Europe; it is simply transferring responsibility for defending continued sovereignty to the countries that desire sovereignty.  The same approach applies to Asian countries.  Underlying any argument that the US necessarily has some type of role or interest in defending and preserving any other country via continued occupation and military assistance is an at least implicit and sometimes explicit embrace of imperialism.

If the recurring reports of the early stage of Parkinson's and late stage cancer are correct, Putin tried to leave his everlasting mark on the history of Russia. Well, in that he has succeeded...

Gossip regarding Putin's health is common.

[drogulus]

     

Lets see if Poetin gives in to the internal pressure of the Kremlin, to stop this war. The resistance to the war seems to be mounting to a critical level.

     I think the officials around Putin are thinking about their personal circumstances. Being for or against a policy is not decided according to an external criteria. People don't want to fall out of windows. They have to keep their escape plan updated to avoid any nastiness at borders, things like that.

[71 dB]

If the recurring reports of the early stage of Parkinson's and late stage cancer are correct, Putin tried to leave his everlasting mark on the history of Russia. Well, in that he has succeeded...

I understand people wanting to leave their everlasting mark on the history, but that kind of mark? I'd rather be remembered as a hero than a total asshole who ruined things for everyone.

[LKB]

If the recurring reports of the early stage of Parkinson's and late stage cancer are correct, Putin tried to leave his everlasting mark on the history of Russia. Well, in that he has succeeded...

Am l mistaken in believing that you actually intended to write, " skidmark " ? 

[BasilValentine]

The corporate press is unabashedly pro-war.  Partly as a result, a lot of people are unabashedly pro-war.

More newspeak. Pro-defense (of territorial integrity) ≠ pro-war. The unwarranted extrapolation from the particular (this war) to the general (war) is a cheap and transparent smear tactic.

Otherwise, nice post. 

[milk]

Europe as a whole is the highest income region of the world with more wealth than the US.  Europe is home to some world class defense contractors.  Some European countries have accomplished military histories.  Europe is more than capable of checking Russia without US assistance.  The conditions that existed in 1949 are long gone.  NATO has not been needed since 1991.  Russia in 2022 is not the USSR in the wake of WWII.  Leaving European defense to Europe is not abandoning Europe; it is simply transferring responsibility for defending continued sovereignty to the countries that desire sovereignty.  The same approach applies to Asian countries.  Underlying any argument that the US necessarily has some type of role or interest in defending and preserving any other country via continued occupation and military assistance is an at least implicit and sometimes explicit embrace of imperialism.

But Tucker Carlson said that last night!

What alternative is Todd suggesting?
You're correct about his arguments not being taken seriously (by me at least).
I don't take them seriously when I hear them from Fox or Russia Today or from any member of the U.S. isolationist Right. Why would I take them seriously when I hear them from Todd.

I'm not saying I accept the alternative. Should we just just pretend it's not there? Remember "Brexit"? Wasn't that the result of pretending a problem didn't exist? Remember trump?

[Todd]

But Tucker Carlson said that last night!

He did?  Good for him. 

[SimonNZ]

[Madiel]

Okay I'll bite. How has he supposedly done this?

Edit: Is this to do with the Russian-affiliated church versus the independent Ukrainian one?

[drogulus]

    Perhaps the world alliance system taken as whole is some kind of evolutionary advance on more traditional imperial -isms. One way it seems to be a genuine advance is that countries have considerable room to maneuver on how much sovereignty to give up. They have bargaining power and the US doesn't seem to be able to get them to contribute more to collective defense than the countries want to spend. Uncle Sam can't get the kids to clean their rooms!

     Of course the US spends dollars for European defense into US pockets. We are not simpletons. The best way to get or stay rich is to invest in things you'd have to do even if it wasn't profitable, but merely necessary. There's no better way to make money than to do what you have to do.

    Having said that, I have to wonder if the US hasn't been a bit clever. Instead of bullying Japan into bulking up, creating resentment and possibly failing as well, we let China persuade the Japanese of the wisdom of strength, as they have done far better than US lectures. Bravo, China. Japan will be the Poland of Asia.

     

[Karl Henning]

Not only does he spout baseless Putinist propaganda, but he has a ready audience of mush-brains who lap it up.

[SimonNZ]

Okay I'll bite. How has he supposedly done this?

Edit: Is this to do with the Russian-affiliated church versus the independent Ukrainian one?

Seems so.

No, Zelensky Isn't Fighting a 'War on Christianity'
The American right is gullibly parroting a Putin propaganda line.

[...]
"He was referring to Ukraine's decision in early December to effectively shut down the Moscow-linked Russian Orthodox Church in the country. The reason? As Christianity Today reported, Ukrainian authorities say they have "uncovered large amounts of cash, 'dubious' Russian citizens, and leaflets calling on people to join the Russian army...Other material cited as evidence included prayer texts of ROC patriarch Kirill and a video of hymn singing that celebrated Russia's 'awakening.'"

It's easy to understand why Zelensky wants to prevent a fifth column spy network from operating in Ukraine. However, his actions provide fodder to prove he is at war with Christianity.

The charge that Zelensky is at war with Christianity is potentially a potent wedge issue on the right, particularly as Republicans, many of whom are Christian (and many of whom are increasingly skeptical of foreign entanglements) take control of the U.S. House of Representatives next month. Most Republicans still support aiding Ukraine, but support is declining. If this narrative takes hold, it is sure to negatively impact our role as an ally.

Russia knows this. Dmitry Medvedev, deputy chairman of the Russian Security Council, wasted no time in casting Zelensky as an enemy of Christendom, saying, "The current Ukrainian authorities have openly become enemies of Christ and the Orthodox faith." Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov went so far as to accuse Ukraine of "waging a war on the Russian Orthodox Church."

But is it true? It seems to me that if Zelensky is actually waging a war on Christianity, then it is an ill-advised war against his own constituents. According to the Pew Research Center, 78 percent of Ukrainians identify as Orthodox (a higher percentage than exists in Russia).

Meanwhile, only "14 percent of the public called themselves faithful to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate..." That leaves a lot of Christians with whom Zelensky isn't at war with.

As The Wall Street Journal notes, a rival Orthodox Church of Ukraine "was recognized in 2019 by the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople as fully independent from Russia, a major diplomatic achievement for Kyiv and a blow to Russian soft power."
[...]

[Madiel]

Yeah well, it isn't hard to envisage people not bothering to understand about different denominations and on the other side of the world and just saying "Christianity". Much as lumping all Muslims together is what allowed the story that Saddam Hussein was cooperating with Al-Qaeda.

When the patriarch of Constantinople, the most senior person in Orthodox Christianity, gave his blessing to an independent Ukrainian Orthodox Church in late 2018/early 2019, the Russian Orthodox were absolutely livid and severed ties. Why? Because they regard Ukraine as part of their territory. It's simply another part of the ongoing ideological battle where Russian institutions don't accept Ukraine as a distinct country.

[LKB]

He did?  Good for him. 

And as we all know, TC is always truthful... 

[Madiel]

Hmm. More prominent Russians dying in odd ways.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-29/indian-police-investigate-russian-oligarch-death/101815414

[71 dB]

Not only does he spout baseless Putinist propaganda, but he has a ready audience of mush-brains who lap it up.

The purpose of Fox News is not to inform people.

Isn't it comical how the anti-Soviet Union "red scare" right has transformed into anti-LGBT Putinists within a few decades? 

[Florestan]

As opposed to Putin, Kiril and the Russian army, whose actions are full of Christian love, compassion and non-violence.

[Christo]

As opposed to Putin, Kiril and the Russian army, whose actions are full of Christian love, compassion and non-violence.

Well said.

[Fëanor]

The corporate press is unabashedly pro-war.  Partly as a result, a lot of people are unabashedly pro-war.
...
Some of the views used to be held by the anti-war "left" in the US, some by libertarians, some by conservative non-interventionists.  (You will see some people get confused and misuse the word isolationism and its variants.  That is not uncommon.)

Malicious nonsense. It isn't at all "pro-war", it's anti-surrender.
 

Europe as a whole is the highest income region of the world with more wealth than the US.  Europe is home to some world class defense contractors.  Some European countries have accomplished military histories.  Europe is more than capable of checking Russia without US assistance.  The conditions that existed in 1949 are long gone.  NATO has not been needed since 1991.  Russia in 2022 is not the USSR in the wake of WWII.  Leaving European defense to Europe is not abandoning Europe; it is simply transferring responsibility for defending continued sovereignty to the countries that desire sovereignty.  The same approach applies to Asian countries.  Underlying any argument that the US necessarily has some type of role or interest in defending and preserving any other country via continued occupation and military assistance is an at least implicit and sometimes explicit embrace of imperialism.

In fact, and apart from nuclear weapons, European NATO members w/o the USA, have in total a far larger and more capable militaries that the Russian Federation.  Leaving aside Putin's use of nuclear blackmail, the European NATO forces substantially outnumber Russia's and could kick the crap out the Russian military any day of the week.

Unfortunately, (from your POV as supporter of Russian imperialist ambitions), the USA provides the only counter to Putin's nuclear blackmail. That fully justifies the USA fulfilling its appropriate NATO role.

[Karl Henning]

The purpose of Fox News is not to inform people.

No, they're cynical grifters of just the same ilk as the disgraced former president. Carlson does it for the ratings, and Fox understands perfectly well what his carney show adds to the bottom line.