Europe at War

[JBS]

I open his posts on New Releases. You can always open individual posts.

Quite true. My Ignore list now has someone on it.

[Karl Henning]

Quite true. My Ignore list now has someone on it.

Not without reason.

[prémont]

Ending the war is the moral thing to do; prolonging the war is the immoral thing to do.

Tell Mad Vlad that!

[Madiel]

Tell Mad Vlad that!

I suspect Vlad and Todd both think that "ending" by reaching the desired conclusion is different to "stopping" trying to get there.

[prémont]

I suspect Vlad and Todd both think that "ending" by reaching the desired conclusion is different to "stopping" trying to get there.

Then "ending" and "prolonging" would imply identical actions and Todd's post would be senseless (though this of course is far from the first time this has happened).

[Madiel]

Then "ending" and "prolonging" would imply identical actions and Todd's post would be senseless (though this of course is far from the first time this has happened).

Well exactly. Much of his stance is so full of doublespeak that it's hard to know which parts of it are conscious sophistry and which parts are massive self-deception.

I haven't received any offers for buying Todd's house. Which is disappointing. I've made my willingness to negotiate the sale of his property VERY clear.

[Todd]

Tell Mad Vlad that!

Do you have his contact information?  I would happily send him a letter or an email or a text conveying this message.  I'm sure it would make all the difference.

[drogulus]

     Negotiations will result from what's decided by the "keep fighting". Is that clear? I think it is. The present negotiation posture of all the parties reflect that. Putin needs a final verdict and won't give up before that point. The US can't give up for him, he or his successor must do it.

     The US won't negotiate a chunk of Ukraine away. The will of Ukraine to fight even if it loses support is as certain as anything can be. That conditions what parties can negotiate, even if they are so bold as to attempt to usurp the Ukrainian government authority. Ukraine won't let Russia do it, and I don't think they will let anyone else do it either.

     Go ahead and try to negotiate Ukraine out from under it's government and military. How's that supposed to work?

     

[LKB]

I'm beginning to get to the position of thinking this is a bit like saying that Hitler made some nice paintings and was a very engaging conversationalist when he wasn't wreaking havoc.

Yes I'm going with Godwin's law. Given that Todd reads nothing I say I don't have to care about that. He's not my audience. Everyone else here is.

Todd says things on this thread that are so utterly abhorrent that I'm finding it harder and harder to see him as actually adding value to the forum. Maybe I'm not sufficiently obsessed with documenting the latest 43 Beethoven cycles or what the record companies in East Asia are releasing to see the value, but what I see is a man who has consistently denied the agency of an entire country that is fighting for its existence, and regularly casts doubt on whether the country exists not just whether it has the right to continue existing.

Why are we tolerating this? Why are we continuing to accept as a member a man who advocates the erasure of an ethnic identity?

Go back over this thread and see what it takes for him to mention Ukraine as anything other than a place where Russia and USA/the West are having a battle. The Ukrainian people barely get mentioned.

I've known Ukrainian people. The mother of my best friend in primary school was Ukrainian. I work with a Ukrainian. These people fucking hate Russia, precisely because Russia denies the existence of Ukrainian identity.

And Todd is persistently exhibiting the same denial here. And I'm getting to the point where I'm pretty sick of the forum tolerating it.

Madiel, l understand the frustration you're experiencing, and I'm going to make an attempt here to alleviate it.

First off, please note that I'm:

a) not a mod, and therefore speak only for myself.

b) not remotely in any sort of  friendly relationship with Todd, and

c) have been both steadfast and vocal in my support of both Ukraine and the Western assistance they've received since that little f**k in the Kremlin launched the war last year.

Okay... So, this is primarily a forum for discussing and exploring classical music. 

Todd has made regular contributions to some of the musical threads here for some time, and others have posted positive responses regarding his contributions to those threads. So as a member, he's demonstrated value within the context of the nominal purpose for this bbs.

In addition, he's avoided ( as far as l can tell ) any sort of forbidden activity which would trigger suspension or banning.

As odious, ignorant and insensitive as his postings are, they are the only available means for presenting his opinion, and as such he has as much right to post them as anyone else who is posting to present their opinion.

As long as he continues to play by the rules, he has as much say as any other regular member, which is exactly how it should be.

[Todd]

From Foreign Policy: Is the U.S. Military Capable of Learning From the War in Ukraine?

And wars such as Russia's in Ukraine—which provide a meaningful test of U.S. hardware and strategic assumptions without costing American blood—are even rarer occasions.

And Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, et al take full advantage of such occasions.

On the topic of weapons:

Switzerland rethinks neutrality, considers weapons exports amid Ukraine crisis

Pesky neutrality gets in the way of weapons exports and re-exports.  The Swiss would be wise to abandon five centuries of neutrality for corrupt Ukraine.  On the upside, it could up weapons sales, offsetting the pinch on financial services imposed by the US starting in the Bush years.  Everyone wins.  Well, except for dead civilians. 

[Herman]

In response to LKB: I'm not a big reader of toddposts, but from what I've seen in skimming this disaster topic it's not just that he's stating his opinion. He's clearly trolling and provoking other posters, who often take the bait etc.

[Madiel]

Madiel, l understand the frustration you're experiencing, and I'm going to make an attempt here to alleviate it.

First off, please note that I'm:

a) not a mod, and therefore speak only for myself.

b) not remotely in any sort of  friendly relationship with Todd, and

c) have been both steadfast and vocal in my support of both Ukraine and the Western assistance they've received since that little f**k in the Kremlin launched the war last year.

Okay... So, this is primarily a forum for discussing and exploring classical music. 

Todd has made regular contributions to some of the musical threads here for some time, and others have posted positive responses regarding his contributions to those threads. So as a member, he's demonstrated value within the context of the nominal purpose for this bbs.

In addition, he's avoided ( as far as l can tell ) any sort of forbidden activity which would trigger suspension or banning.

As odious, ignorant and insensitive as his postings are, they are the only available means for presenting his opinion, and as such he has as much right to post them as anyone else who is posting to present their opinion.

As long as he continues to play by the rules, he has as much say as any other regular member, which is exactly how it should be.

Whereas in my view the tone he uses here can also be found, in less virile form, in a lot of other places. There's a kind of disdain for most things that don't please him sufficiently that has long been an annoyance.

It's just that here it gets coupled with odious views on something important. When he's shitting all over music or films or whatever, we all know it's of no real consequence.

Including Todd, who in those circumstances doesn't feel the need to shit all over THE FORUM AND ITS MEMBERS the way he does here from time to time telling us how trivial we all are. Before anyone advocates for Todd's value to the forum, consider the number of times on this thread that Todd has commented on how valueless he finds the forum.

He belittles this discussion (that he is also largely trying to drive) on a very regular basis. I say let's grant him the mercy of not having to deal with such trivial meaningless people any more. He won't be forced to keep posting in a conversation he keeps telling us is inconsequential, and none of us will need to read the stuff he keeps telling us is inconsequential. Everybody wins.

[Karl Henning]

Ernie: The US won't negotiate a chunk of Ukraine away.

That crazy little thing called sovereignty. 

[drogulus]

     Moldova is supposed to be next on the list according to Russian FM Lavrov.

     Russia rarely innovates away from its familiar ruses. One should expect a provocation in Transnistria. Moldovan intelligence says about a thousand young and middle aged men have arrived recently.

     I take it Transnistria is not the kind of place where a thousand of anybody arrives.

[drogulus]

     Should we start the Moldovan negotiations now, just in case?

[Madiel]

Moldova is supposed to be next on the list according to Russian FM Lavrov.

     Russia rarely innovates away from its familiar ruses. One should expect a provocation in Transnistria. Moldovan intelligence says about a thousand young and middle aged men have arrived recently.

     I take it Transnistria is not the kind of place where a thousand of anybody arrives.

Hmm. Earlier I was hearing Kazakhstan.

Russia doesn't share a border with Moldova so I'm wondering how they get there. Is it a march across the rest of Ukraine or a bunch of ships coming from Crimea?

[drogulus]

Hmm. Earlier I was hearing Kazakhstan.

Russia doesn't share a border with Moldova so I'm wondering how they get there. Is it a march across the rest of Ukraine or a bunch of ships coming from Crimea?

    It's a little odd since the original plan to link up across the south hasn't panned out. It's odd in another way as it tends to make TuckerPutiny notions about how Europe should deliver up chunks of itself to Russia because, well, reasons look even shittier, if you can imagine that. I wouldn't have thought it possible, but Lavrov has genuine skills in that regard.

[Madiel]

It's a little odd since the original plan to link up across the south hasn't panned out. It's odd in another way as it tends to make TuckerPutiny notions about how Europe should deliver up chunks of itself to Russia because, well, reasons look even shittier, if you can imagine that. I wouldn't have thought it possible, but Lavrov has genuine skills in that regard.

I'm familiar with Lavrov's capacity to bark things out that don't make a lot of sense, yes.

Really, when the justification for invading a country led by a Russian-speaking Jew is that Ukrainian nationalist Nazis are in control, the standards are already pretty darn low.

[Florestan]

Russia doesn't share a border with Moldova so I'm wondering how they get there. Is it a march across the rest of Ukraine or a bunch of ships coming from Crimea?

Moldova is landlocked.

I think the probability of Russia invading Moldova is highly unlikely.

[Madiel]

Moldova is landlocked.

Excellent point that I had quite forgotten. But maybe they can sneak up the Dniester.