Mozart

[71 dB]

71 DB, I recommend Mozart's Kyrie in F major, K.33. It's just over two minutes long and is a lovely piece. The ending, where Mozart elides the final syllable of the title into "Eleison", is nicely done.

If it makes you feel better, I have recently discovered Elgar's Lux Christi. It can be difficult to find music that suits you but take comfort in the knowledge that it is out there.

Sorry Hitch for my delayed response. You didn't quote my post, so I didn't know you have responded to me. I'll check out K.33, thanks.

Lux Christi or The Light of Life is an overlooked Elgar work wrote a few years before the popular Dream of Gerontius and Elgar's greatest oratorios The Apostles and The Kingdom. Nice to hear if you have enjoyed it! 

As for finding music I enjoy, I am working on my classical music "problems." It is much broader issue than just music. As of writing this I am listening to Mozart's String Quartets K. 168-173 (Sonare Quartet). 

[71 dB]

Did you expect that each and every GMG (veteran) member agree with you?

You are more than welcome to state your views. You should expect others to do the same. You should not translate a disagreement over musical taste as a personal offence.

Relax, man, and have fun!

Of course we don't agree about everything, but there are polite ways to express it. Hinting the other person has lesser listening skills just because he/she is new to the forum isn't nice.

[Madiel]

It was written for a musical clock. Unless it is performed by an 18th century musical clock, you are listening to a transcription. I checked my collection and I seem to have versions for Chamber Orchestra (Sandor Vech), for wind quintet (Berlin Philharmonic Wind Quintet) and for two fortepianos (van Oort et al).

Eh? The original poster said it was for organ.

[Mandryka]

It was written for a musical clock. Unless it is performed by an 18th century musical clock, you are listening to a transcription.

Yes and no, a mechanical clock is just a little organ activated by a clockwork mechanism and which probably plays the music on the hour. And there's a letter where Mozart said he hates them because they're so puny, but he was going to compose music for them for the money. Arguably 608 is well suited to a bigger organ, as if Mozart just hated the instrument he was being paid to write for so much that he just said to himself "fuck it, I'm going to write a big organ piece."

[Jo498]

The "musical clock" was some kind of mechanical organ, I believe. So it is usually played on organ today but frequently in other arrangements.

[Spotted Horses]

I chanced on a score which described it as "fur orgelwalz," which seems to translate to "barrel organ." I assume something like this was intended.

[vers la flamme]

Mozart is one of my favorite composers. However, I don't have a full set of the Mozart symphonies; in fact I only have a couple recordings each of 35-41. Any recommendations? I'm not sure how much I will be listening to the earlier symphonies but I'd like to at least hear all of them a few times.

[Florestan]

Mozart is one of my favorite composers. However, I don't have a full set of the Mozart symphonies; in fact I only have a couple recordings each of 35-41. Any recommendations? I'm not sure how much I will be listening to the earlier symphonies but I'd like to at least hear all of them a few times.

The classic set:



Sound quality varies but it's never less than eminently listenable. Old school Mozart, for sure, but solid, no-nonsense approach. If you are a diehard HIPster, avoid. If you are not, you can't go wrong with it.

The HIP set I greatly enjoy although I'm not much of a HIPster:



Excellent sonics, very good performance. Highly recommended.

Not a complete set but a great one, from a Vienna-born Mozart specialist:



Other complete sets I have but not listened to yet: Marriner, Mackerras, Norichika Iimori.

[Jo498]

You should have at least 25 ("little g minor"), 28, 29, 31 "Paris", 32-34. Most of them (except maybe 28) have been frequently recorded (whereas the first 24 are usually only in complete sets).

There are surprisingly many complete sets of Mozart symphonies. AFAIK there were only 3 before the 1980s (as in the LP days), namely a mono one with Leinsdorf (Westminster), Böhm on DG (the most famous and best distributed for decades) and a combination of Marriner for the first 21 or so and Krips/Concertgebouw (both on Philips) for the rest. In the run-up to the anniversary 1991 Marriner had completed his with the later symphonies, so I believe his complete one was used for the Philips edition. Hogwood (L'oiseau lyre/Decca) and Pinnock (DG Archiv) also recorded the whole lot on old instruments in the 1980s. And there were no less than 3 more cycles ready in 1991: Levine/Vienna Phil/DG, Tate/ECO/EMI and Graf/Mozarteum/Capriccio (Delta music).
Is Mackerras complete? That would be another one.

Later on there appeared a cheapo Italian one, one on Naxos, then a Dutch (HIP one on Brilliant classics and Harnoncourt recorded the first 27 with the Concentus, which makes a complete one with his older Concertgebouw recordings.
The most recent one I am aware of was very positively received, Adam Fischer with a Danish orchestra (I have not heard any of it). So there is at least about a dozen, maybe 15! If you find Fischer at a good price, this has probably the best sound and informed but modern chamber performances.

Disregarding the old Leinsdorf, AFAIS only Böhm and Levine are with a large orchestra, the other early/complete ones tend to be chamberish although neither Marriner nor Graf sound particularly small.

[Florestan]

Drat! I forgot I also have the Hogwood, Tate and Leinsdorf sets. Thanks Jo for reminding me. 

However --- to quote a living classic --- however, I do think that had Istvan Kertesz recorded a complete set with the Vienna PO, instead of the 3-disc worth of symphonies he actually recorded, now THAT would have been the best complete set available, both performance-wise and sonic-wise.

And --- KV16 is in my top five first symphonies, alongside Schumann, Tchaikovsky, Mahler and Sibelius. The second, slow movement is simply mind-blowing.

[Florestan]

In the run-up to the anniversary 1991 Marriner had completed his with the later symphonies, so I believe his complete one was used for the Philips edition

Yes, Marriner / AOSMF is in the Philips Edition. They also accompany Alfred Brendel for the complete PCs.

[Brahmsian]

Mozart is one of my favorite composers. However, I don't have a full set of the Mozart symphonies; in fact I only have a couple recordings each of 35-41. Any recommendations? I'm not sure how much I will be listening to the earlier symphonies but I'd like to at least hear all of them a few times.

I second the Trevor Pinnock recommendation, or the Bohm.

[Florestan]

I second the Trevor Pinnock recommendation

Full disclosure: I listened to that set in its entirety, disc by disc, during the first lockdown, Spring 2020. During the same period I also listened to Haydn's complete piano trios by the Beaux-Arts Trio and to Haydn's complete piano sonatas by Carmen Piazzini --- disc by disc each of them. All three sets were absolutely essential for preserving my sanity and optimism in those dire times. I might be biased. 

[vers la flamme]

I love Böhm in the late symphonies, and may check that out, though I have a feeling that the HIP approach may be more effective for the earlier ones.

[Florestan]

I love Böhm in the late symphonies, and may check that out, though I have a feeling that the HIP approach may be more effective for the earlier ones.

Böhm is very good in KV16. Nay, he's actually excellent. The second movement --- bliss!

[DavidW]

I love Böhm in the late symphonies, and may check that out, though I have a feeling that the HIP approach may be more effective for the earlier ones.

Yes I would say either Fischer or Pinnock for the early ones and then either Bohm or Davis for the later ones.

[Madiel]

My preferred set is Tate.

I haven't actually bought it yet, but I've listened to a lot of it via streaming, and decided it was the way to get the earlier symphonies that I didn't own.

[Jo498]

The only one I have heard complete is Harnoncourt's. I have never knowingly listened to any of Pinnock, Fischer, Tate, Mackerras, Leinsdorf, Naxos. I have heard a few each of Böhm, Marriner, Levine, Krips, Hogwood. I have heard about half each of Ter Linden (Brilliant) and Graf.
I don't know about easy/cheap availability. If you want to try singles, separate discs of the Graf could be found cheaply used a few years ago.

Harnoncourt is different from anybody else, taking the pieces very/too? seriously, doing all the repeats etc. and also having a comparably big sounding ensemble, certainly for the older ones (25,26,28-41) with the Concertgebouw, but the Concentus sounds also bigger than most other HIP groups.
The Concertgebouw recordings on Teldec were reissued many times on cheap singles, I'd recommend trying at least the one with 25, and probably also 32-34.
Ter Linden on Brilliant is pretty good(it was two boxes, one of which I owned for a while) and probably very cheap.

[Spotted Horses]

Harnoncourt is different from anybody else, taking the pieces very/too? seriously, doing all the repeats etc. and also having a comparably big sounding ensemble, certainly for the older ones (25,26,28-41) with the Concertgebouw, but the Concentus sounds also bigger than most other HIP groups.
The Concertgebouw recordings on Teldec were reissued many times on cheap singles, I'd recommend trying at least the one with 25, and probably also 32-34.

Harnoncourt/Concertgebouw changed my idea of Mozart. I was accustomed to stodgy string-heavy recordings like Bohm and Kripps, and all of a sudden I heard Mozart with prominent, aggressive horn, trumpets, percussion, and woodwinds that weren't overpowered by the string section. (Subsequently other conductors have gone the same way and Harnoncourt is not the outlier it was when it was first released and generally received contemptuous reviews.) The first recording I listened to (on LP) was No 35 and it blew me away.

Unfortunately these recordings don't seem to be available in a convenient edition (they were at one time) and you would have to add the separate set of recordings of the early symphonies with the CMW.



Of the other complete editions mentioned above, it seems like everyone loves the ones I hate. Hogwood's super complete set (with multiple recordings of symphonies where Mozart returned to touch up the orchestration). I find them boring and unengaging. For strict HIP I like Bruggen much better, but he didn't do all of them. Krips, Bohm, I find too tame. I haven't heard Pinnock, so I can't comment.

For sets which you can actually get, I'd suggest Mackerras/Prague on Telarc, or Fischer. Fischer has the exasperating feature that it omits Symphony No 32, probably justified by the idea that the single movement work is really an overture. Why couldn't they play it anyway?




The early symphonies tend to be wonderful little gems, I wouldn't miss them. Same for the early serenades and divertimenti.

[Jo498]

I don't care for Böhm either (I think he was a much better conductor in Wagner, Strauss, Brahms than in Mozart or even Schubert, he has done a few very good Mozart operas, but that's at least as much the singer's merit) but I have only heard one "early" symphony with him (#25, forgettable, no drama at all). TBH I hardly remember any symphony before #25 well enough, I think one or both of the A major pieces K 114 and 134 were very nice.
Of the recordings I have heard, I think the Graf/Mozarteum are quite good. Not up with the best of Vegh's but lively without falling into an all purpose perkiness (as Marriner sometimes tends to although I also like this for some pieces.

So I'll mention a few recordings of the slightly later ones I do remember as remarkable.

#25 Harnoncourt (either), Klemperer, Sieghart/Linz (Arte Nova)
#26 Harnoncourt (either) this is more an "ouverture"/sinfonia (like 32) but very dramatic
#28 Harnoncourt
#29 Fricsay (stereo, the mono is a bit too fast and dry) but this is probably the best early Mozart and hard to completely botch, Harnoncourt is also good here.
#31 "Paris" Harnoncourt, Klemperer (that's again a total miss by Böhm who, probably due to a bad edition plays the finale way too slow)
#32 Maag
#33 Harnoncourt, E. Kleiber (there should be live recordings with Carlos but I have never seen any, the main/only program of Carlos' later years was Coriolan ouverture, Mozart #33, Brahms #4)
#34 Szell, Harnoncourt, Klemperer, Markevitch (who adds the minuet that fits very badly)

On LP I had a recording of 25,29 (and maybe 32) with C. Davis I loved (it was one of the first I heard) but I think this has fallen by the wayside in favor of later recordings of this conductor.