Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[Spotted Horses]

Thanks for the tip.  I ordered and will see if I receive the discs.  MovieMars does not show the recordings on their own site, so I have doubts.

MovieMars is certainly an inefficient organization. I ordered something on Amazon marketplace from "innersleeves" and I saw in a buried page that it is moviemars. They generated a tracking number a week ago and the courier still doesn't report receiving the package.

[AnotherSpin]

Alas, the sonata set is not visible in the US.  Volumes 5 & 6 separately would also provide the missing sonatas, but I can't find both of those, either. 

Thank you for bringing Salem Ashkar to attention, not sure I heard about him before. I listened to a few sonatas from the cycle, really interesting.

[Spotted Horses]

MovieMars is certainly an inefficient organization. I ordered something on Amazon marketplace from "innersleeves" and I saw in a buried page that it is moviemars. They generated a tracking number a week ago and the courier still doesn't report receiving the package.

The blame may go to DHL. I received the package while DHL tracking still says they are waiting to receive the package from the shipper. 

[lordlance]

A muscular and fiery performance of the 28th live from 1965 just like I like it!

[Pohjolas Daughter]

A muscular and fiery performance of the 28th live from 1965 just like I like it!

I don't know that particular performance, but I do enjoy his recordings of Beethoven's piano sonatas.  I have this set on DG:



PD

[AnotherSpin]

I don't know that particular performance, but I do enjoy his recordings of Beethoven's piano sonatas.  I have this set on DG:



PD

Some of the Gilels recordings from the Melodiya series are awesome. But the horrendous Soviet sound quality... I don't know what was wrong with the engineers' ears, considering also that almost all recording equipment after the war was "trophy", i.e. stolen in Germany. When I listen to old Soviet recordings, I can't help feeling that the sound is over-dried and filled with some dust or sand.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Some of the Gilels recordings from the Melodiya series are awesome. But the horrendous Soviet sound quality... I don't know what was wrong with the engineers' ears, considering also that almost all recording equipment after the war was "trophy", i.e. stolen in Germany. When I listen to old Soviet recordings, I can't help feeling that the sound is over-dried and filled with some dust or sand.

Yes, those Melodiya records can be rather rough listening--particularly the early ones.  I have a few sets--like one of Chaliapin and another of Prokofiev--but those are also quite early.  I bought them more out of historical interest but don't often play them.  If there's a Gilels thread, I'd love to hear what some of your favorite Melodiya ones are there.

PD

p.s.  I do also (off the top of my head) have some of Rostropovich's recordings on that label; however, again, the sound is "rough".

[AnotherSpin]

Yes, those Melodiya records can be rather rough listening--particularly the early ones.  I have a few sets--like one of Chaliapin and another of Prokofiev--but those are also quite early.  I bought them more out of historical interest but don't often play them.  If there's a Gilels thread, I'd love to hear what some of your favorite Melodiya ones are there.

PD

p.s.  I do also (off the top of my head) have some of Rostropovich's recordings on that label; however, again, the sound is "rough".

Shortly before the collapse of the USSR, so-called "licensed" records began to appear. For example, Gilels' recordings of Beethoven's unfinished set of sonatas on the DG were issued in USSR by Melodiya on separate LPs. With different covers than in the original. Still they sounded incomparably better in comparison with regular Melodiya output. In fact, they sounded terrific! I never had DG LPs with this recordings to compare, know DG set from CDs and stream.

[lordlance]

Shortly before the collapse of the USSR, so-called "licensed" records began to appear. For example, Gilels' recordings of Beethoven's unfinished set of sonatas on the DG were issued in USSR by Melodiya on separate LPs. With different covers than in the original. Still they sounded incomparably better in comparison with regular Melodiya output. In fact, they sounded terrific! I never had DG LPs with this recordings to compare, know DG set from CDs and stream.

Yes because they were recorded by DG. I am not sure why Russian engineers were so bad at their jobs. Reminds me of how Horenstein's stuff recorded in the 60s sounds like they were recorded in the early 40s somehow. No clue how he got that bad of a sound this late in the game (relatively)

[Todd]

After finishing up Saleem Ashkar's cycle, it was time to refresh the most scientifically valid, objective ranking system yet devised.  I noticed also that I had neglected to add Martin Roscoe to the rankings before.


Top Tier – The Holy Tetrarchy
Annie Fischer (Hungarton)
Friedrich Gulda (Amadeo)
Wilhelm Kempff (DG, mono)
Wilhelm Backhaus (mono)

[Rudolf Serkin; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]


Top Tier – The Rest of the Top Ten (sort of in order)
Wilhelm Kempff (DG, stereo)
Eric Heidsieck
Russell Sherman
Andrea Lucchesini
Emil Gilels
Daniel-Ben Pienaar

[Sviatoslav Richter; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]


Second Tier - Cycles 11-21 (in alphabetical order)
Artur Schnabel
Fazil Say
Francois Frederic Guy
Irina Mejoueva (Bijin)
Kazune Shimizu (Sony)
Minsoo Sohn
Paul Badura-Skoda (JVC/Astree)
Takahiro Sonoda (Evica)
Wilhelm Backhaus (stereo)
Yu Kosuge
Yusuke Kikuchi


Second Tier - Remainder (in alphabetical order)
Bernard Roberts
Claude Frank
Daniel Barenboim (EMI, 2005)
Eduardo del Pueyo
Friedrich Gulda (Orfeo)
Maurizio Pollini
Michael Levinas
Peter Takacs
Robert Silverman
Rudolf Buchbinder (Unitel)
Seymour Lipkin
Takahiro Sonoda (Denon)
Younwha Lee

[Bruce Hungerford; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]


Third Tier (in alphabetical order)
Aquiles Delle Vigne
Abdel Rahman El Bacha (Mirare)
Akiyoshi Sako
Alfred Brendel (Philips, 1970s)
Alfred Brendel (Vox)
Alfredo Perl
Andras Schiff
Boris Giltburg
Claudio Arrau (1960s)
Claudio Arrau (1980s)
Craig Sheppard
Daniel Barenboim (DG)
Daniel Barenboim (EMI, 1960s)
David Allen Wehr
Dieter Zechlin
Friedrich Gulda (Decca)
Garrick Ohlsson
Gerard Willems
Gerhard Oppitz
Ian Hobson
Ichiro Nodaira
Igor Levit
Irina Mejoueva
Jingge Yan
John O'Conor
Jonathan Biss
Konstantin Scherbakov
Kun-Woo Paik
Louie Lortie
Malcolm Bilson, et al (Beghin is second tier)
Malcolm Binns
Martin Roscoe
Michael Houstoun (Morrison Trust)
Michael Houstoun (Rattle)
Michael Korstick
Muriel Chemin
Paul Badura-Skoda (Gramola)
Pavaali Jumppanen
Peter Rösel
Robert Silverman (AudioHigh)
Rudolf Buchbinder (Teldec)
Saleem Abboud Ashkar
Sequeira Costa
Stephen Kovacevich
Stewart Goodyear
Walter Gieseking (EMI/Tahra hybrid)
Wilhelm Kempff (1961, King International)
Yaeko Yamane
Yves Nat


Fourth Tier (in alphabetical order)
Abdel Rahman El Bacha (Forlane)
Aldo Ciccolini
Alfred Brendel (Philips, 1990s)
Andre De Groote
Angela Hewitt
Anton Kuerti
Christian Leotta
Daniel Barenboim (DG, 2020)
Dino Ciani
Georges Pludermacher
Idil Biret
Ikuyo Nakamichi
Jean Bernard Pommier
Jean Muller
Jean-Efflam Bavouzet
Jeno Jando
John Kane
John Lill
Konstantin Lifschitz
Llŷr Williams
Mari Kodama
Maria Grinburg
Martin Rasch
Martino Tirimo   
Melodie Zhao
Paul Lewis
Richard Goode
Robert Benz
Robert Taub
Ronald Brautigam
Rudolf Buchbinder (RCA)
Sebastian Forster
Steven Herbert Smith
Steven Masi
Timothy Ehlen
Vladimir Ashkenazy
Yukio Yokoyama


Bottom Tier (in sorta particular order)
HJ Lim
Rita Bouboulidi
Tatiana Nikolayeva
Anne Oland


Eighth Circle of Hell
[Glenn Gould; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]

[Todd]

I decided now was as good a time as any to revisit my comprehensive list of all the LvB sonata cycles I know about, whether truly complete or intended to be complete.  My list had a couple duplicates in it previously.  I count 133 existing complete or intended to be complete cycles.  Of those 133 cycles, 130 have been made available for purchase by consumers.  I own 124 of the cycles.  It's also worth noting the 20 women have recorded 21 cycles.  Surely more of those are needed.  I am aware of nine ongoing complete cycles, though they may not all be completed and/or made available.  I hope they are, and soon.

[JBS]

I decided now was as good a time as any to revisit my comprehensive list of all the LvB sonata cycles I know about, whether truly complete or intended to be complete.  My list had a couple duplicates in it previously.  I count 133 existing complete or intended to be complete cycles.  Of those 133 cycles, 130 have been made available for purchase by consumers.  I own 124 of the cycles.  It's also worth noting the 20 women have recorded 21 cycles.  Surely more of those are needed.  I am aware of nine ongoing complete cycles, though they may not all be completed and/or made available.  I hope they are, and soon.

Who are the three pianists whose sets have not been "made available for purchase by consumers"?

[Todd]

Who are the three pianists whose sets have not been "made available for purchase by consumers"?

It's actually four: Tamami Honma, Hiroaki Ooi, Valentina Lisitsa, and Robert Silverman.  The last three have been partially released.  Honma's is in the can and has been for years now.  Silverman released most of his second cycle on AudioHigh, but withheld some of the sonatas. I am uncertain as to the status of Georg Friedrich Schenck's potential cycle, so there may be five.

[SonicMan46]

After finishing up Saleem Ashkar's cycle, it was time to refresh the most scientifically valid, objective ranking system yet devised.  I noticed also that I had neglected to add Martin Roscoe to the rankings before.


Top Tier – The Holy Tetrarchy
Annie Fischer (Hungarton)
Friedrich Gulda (Amadeo)
Wilhelm Kempff (DG, mono)
Wilhelm Backhaus (mono)

[Rudolf Serkin; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]


Top Tier – The Rest of the Top Ten (sort of in order)
Wilhelm Kempff (DG, stereo)
Eric Heidsieck
Russell Sherman
Andrea Lucchesini
Emil Gilels
Daniel-Ben Pienaar

[Sviatoslav Richter; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]

...................................

Hi Todd - thanks for the update - I've been considering Eric Heidsieck for a while in these works (own the stereo Kempff, so need to do some auditioning of both) - but curious about the difference in the two EMI boxes below, assume the first one is a 'newer' re-mastering (or just a different box)?  Any comments from you and of course others would be appreciated.  Dave

 

[Todd]

but curious about the difference in the two EMI boxes below, assume the first one is a 'newer' re-mastering (or just a different box)?

I believe it's just a repackaging.  I can't recall if the complete Heidsieck edition has new remasterings.  Go for the cheapest set you can find.  Any sonic differences between remasterings will be minimal.

[SonicMan46]

I believe it's just a repackaging.  I can't recall if the complete Heidsieck edition has new remasterings.  Go for the cheapest set you can find.  Any sonic differences between remasterings will be minimal.

Thanks Todd - I'll look around for a decent price!  Dave

[JBS]

I believe it's just a repackaging.  I can't recall if the complete Heidsieck edition has new remasterings.  Go for the cheapest set you can find.  Any sonic differences between remasterings will be minimal.

@SonicMan46
The complete Heidsieck uses the 1995 remasterings. OTOH it has some excellent Mozart PCs, some of the best Faure around, and several other high quality recordings, so you might want to check into it before actually pulling the trigger.

[Todd]

OTOH it has some excellent Mozart PCs

It's a pity Warner did not use the Toshiba remasterings of the piano concertos.  The improvement over the remasterings used is noticeable, though nothing sufficient to detract from performance quality. 

[AnotherSpin]

Top Tier – The Holy Tetrarchy
Annie Fischer (Hungarton)
Friedrich Gulda (Amadeo)
Wilhelm Kempff (DG, mono)
Wilhelm Backhaus (mono)

[Rudolf Serkin; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]


Top Tier – The Rest of the Top Ten (sort of in order)
Wilhelm Kempff (DG, stereo)
Eric Heidsieck
Russell Sherman
Andrea Lucchesini
Emil Gilels
Daniel-Ben Pienaar

[Sviatoslav Richter; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]

My imaginary top tier  is somewhat similar. I have a complicated relationship with Richter, and little familiarity with the Heidsieck and Lucchesini. Which Heidsieck set you recommend? Qobuz has Erato (Warner). Gilels' set isn't complete, is it?

[Jo498]

Gilels died before completing the DG set and all his earlier or live recordings only double a subset of the sonatas. The most serious omission is op.111, also missing are op.2/1, 14/1, 54 and 78. It's very good but often a bit slow and heavy.

I am afraid I never really got the special appeal of Heidsieck's Beethoven although I don't remember much except a few oddities.
IIRC 2 years ago I listened to a lot of Beethoven sonatas over summer and appreciated the live Lucchesini more than I had before but I don't recall much about the Heidsieck, although I must have listened to at least some of them at that time.