Beethoven's Piano Sonatas

[George]

Could they be some of the recordings used in this Membran set?

I don't know. It would depend on which one Membran chose to pirate. 

[DavidW]

I see at least 4 discs of the mono set there, lableled "mono version." It's a very generic cover, with a b/w sketch of Backhaus's head and only the background color differs. Here's an example:



 

That is what I found on Qobuz.

[George]

That is what I found on Qobuz.

They also have the superb-sounding stereo set: https://www.qobuz.com/au-en/album/beethoven-the-piano-sonatas-wilhelm-backhaus/0002894757198

[DavidW]

They also have the superb-sounding stereo set: https://www.qobuz.com/au-en/album/beethoven-the-piano-sonatas-wilhelm-backhaus/0002894757198

Ah yes but they also have the hd remasters of that set as well!

[George]

Ah yes but they also have the hd remasters of that set as well!

Haven't heard the remasters, so I can't recommend them. I have heard many remasters that sounded worse than the original, though. Just sayin.

[Todd]

I have heard many remasters that sounded worse than the original, though. Just sayin.

Yep.  The Gieseking Edition demonstrates that.

The Decca remasters of Backhaus all sound fine.  The complete Backhaus Edition had a fresh 2019 remastering of everything.  It was fine.  I have the Decca Italy remastering of the mono set as well, and some people swore it was all that.  I did a couple A/Bs with the complete set, and if memory serves the Decca Italy was better.  If I could quantify it, I'd say it's 2-3% better.  Maybe up to 4%.  The 2019 remastering sound very slightly better than the Original Masters set.  Let's call it 2.9%. 

[George]

Yep.  The Gieseking Edition demonstrates that.

The Decca remasters of Backhaus all sound fine.  The complete Backhaus Edition had a fresh 2019 remastering of everything.  It was fine.  I have the Decca Italy remastering of the mono set as well, and some people swore it was all that.  I did a couple A/Bs with the complete set, and if memory serves the Decca Italy was better.  If I could quantify it, I'd say it's 2-3% better.  Maybe up to 4%.  The 2019 remastering sound very slightly better than the Original Masters set.  Let's call it 2.9%. 

For the mono, I have the Japan box. I'm not sure if it's the same mastering as the Italy set.

[AnotherSpin]

Is the Backhaus mono set available via streaming anywhere? There's something on Spotify but it's provenance is not determined and as part of the caption says 'live' it makes me wonder.

I did listen to the stereo set but it didn't really grab me. A main part of the issue is dynamic range and whether this is the mastering or the pianist I don't know.

Qobuz (UK) has complete set, see screen pic below.

I bought download as well couple of years ago for US$ 4 (yes, four for the whole set of 32 sonatas) from Presto which doesn't have it any more, but maybe some other online store has for a budget price.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Qobuz (UK) has complete set, see screen pic below.

I bought download as well couple of years ago for US$ 4 (yes, four for the whole set of 32 sonatas) from Presto which doesn't have it any more, but maybe some other online store has for a budget price.

I did provide a link to the mono set yesterday (for about $11.50 USD).  It's here:

"Regarding Wilhelm Backhaus' mono recordings, I did find them for a decent price on Supraphon's website--for 249 CZK.  If my converter was accurate that is about  equal to $11.50 USD.

And that's presuming that they can sell these files in the US (I didn't try).  It looks like, too, that it includes mp3 files too.

https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/576483-beethoven-complete-piano-sonatas-mono-version/flac

PD"

PD

[Atriod]

A muscular and fiery performance of the 28th live from 1965 just like I like it!

This set has his best Beethoven, much better than the DG.

[Holden]

This set has his best Beethoven, much better than the DG.

Yes, I would agree. The fiery Appassionata live from Moscow 1960 is one great example of the differences between the live and studio Gilels.

[Atriod]

I agree completely with this. Using Todds's ranking system I would put it in the third tier.

Feeling generous premont Superb in the early sonatas, but objectively from Pathetique onward Gulda Amadeo is bottom tier.

[Kit]

Couple of years ago Presto Classical had Backhaus' complete Beethoven Piano Sonatas mono set download in FLAC for US$ 4.

Your example begs for context. Presto Music has a policy of applying different pricing to different releases according to the account holder's country's purchasing power. For instance, as of right this moment, download price of Backhaus 1950-1956 set is $10.75 for some  and $2.25 for a few. It has always been this way since the inception of digital downloads. I have multiple accounts for this purpose, so I can demonstrate:

[AnotherSpin]

Your example begs for context. Presto Music has a policy of applying different pricing to different releases according to the account holder's country's purchasing power. For instance, as of right this moment, download price of Backhaus 1950-1956 set is $10.75 for some  and $2.25 for a few. It has always been this way since the inception of digital downloads. I have multiple accounts for this purpose, so I can demonstrate:

Didn't know about that. Just checked, right now Presto has this complete set for $4.25 for Ukraine. I didn't sign in, the country is probably visible anyway. Interestingly, Presto has individual albums from this set for $6.00 each. There you go.

[Cato]

They also have the superb-sounding stereo set: https://www.qobuz.com/au-en/album/beethoven-the-piano-sonatas-wilhelm-backhaus/0002894757198

Yes, the above set (CD's) is what I bought some years ago.

I am glad to learn so many are interested in Wilhelm Backhaus...and in the other pianists who have given us their performances of Beethoven's sonatas!

Such interest is most heartening!

[Holden]

I've been playing the Backhaus Mono over the last two weeks via Qobuz, just to see why Todd and others rated it so highly. It's been an interesting journey and there have been a number of revelatory moments. One thing I can say is that I've never heard a cycle like it.

Backhaus was a contemporary of Schnabel but the two are chalk and cheese. I also looked at reviews and discovered this from our Todd

https://rec.music.classical.recordings.narkive.com/JIPn0MUB/todd-reviews-wilhelm-backhaus-decca-mono-early-1950s

Now I haven't checked to see whether that's also what he has posted on this thread but logic would suggest that it is. One thing he emphasised in his post was WBs willingness to make tempo changes which concerned me. Speeding up and slowing down during a movement seemed not to be the way that Beethoven should be approached so I listened with some trepidation.

In general, most of those changes of tempo worked very well (some spectacularly) and in some others not at all.

What stood out was the fresh (to me) ideas that Backhaus had about interpretation, dynamic range and tone colour. He had ideas that I had never contemplated and I loved the way many of them worked.

The down side of the cycle (and Todd hints strongly at it in his review) was the last five sonatas. To me this is some of the deepest and profound piano writing of all time and Backhaus does not capture this. It sounds rather perfunctory in many places and there are hints of what I did not like with the Gulda cycle. Over quick tempos and the music seems to be played on a note by note basis with the phrasing needed missing the mark.

One overall impression that stuck with me. If I'd been told that these were live performances I would have believed it because spontaneity just seemed to imbue so much of this cycle. I've heard many LvB cycles described as a personal statement but this definitely fits that description.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I've been playing the Backhaus Mono over the last two weeks via Qobuz, just to see why Todd and others rated it so highly. It's been an interesting journey and there have been a number of revelatory moments. One thing I can say is that I've never heard a cycle like it.

Backhaus was a contemporary of Schnabel but the two are chalk and cheese. I also looked at reviews and discovered this from our Todd

https://rec.music.classical.recordings.narkive.com/JIPn0MUB/todd-reviews-wilhelm-backhaus-decca-mono-early-1950s

Now I haven't checked to see whether that's also what he has posted on this thread but logic would suggest that it is. One thing he emphasised in his post was WBs willingness to make tempo changes which concerned me. Speeding up and slowing down during a movement seemed not to be the way that Beethoven should be approached so I listened with some trepidation.

In general, most of those changes of tempo worked very well (some spectacularly) and in some others not at all.

What stood out was the fresh (to me) ideas that Backhaus had about interpretation, dynamic range and tone colour. He had ideas that I had never contemplated and I loved the way many of them worked.

The down side of the cycle (and Todd hints strongly at it in his review) was the last five sonatas. To me this is some of the deepest and profound piano writing of all time and Backhaus does not capture this. It sounds rather perfunctory in many places and there are hints of what I did not like with the Gulda cycle. Over quick tempos and the music seems to be played on a note by note basis with the phrasing needed missing the mark.

One overall impression that stuck with me. If I'd been told that these were live performances I would have believed it because spontaneity just seemed to imbue so much of this cycle. I've heard many LvB cycles described as a personal statement but this definitely fits that description.

I appreciate your thoughtful descriptions of your journey.

PD

[Todd]

The down side of the cycle (and Todd hints strongly at it in his review) was the last five sonatas...

I've heard many LvB cycles described as a personal statement but this definitely fits that description.

The late sonatas are a qualitative step down from earlier sonatas, but they maintain an overall very high standard of performance.  The older, mono Op 111 on APR, while not hugely different, sounds marginally better overall.

Backhaus always strikes me as personal.  And his playing often does sound live.  His 78s are essentially live, of course, and he displays a sense of liver performance energy. 

[Atriod]

I've been playing the Backhaus Mono over the last two weeks via Qobuz, just to see why Todd and others rated it so highly. It's been an interesting journey and there have been a number of revelatory moments. One thing I can say is that I've never heard a cycle like it.

Backhaus was a contemporary of Schnabel but the two are chalk and cheese. I also looked at reviews and discovered this from our Todd

https://rec.music.classical.recordings.narkive.com/JIPn0MUB/todd-reviews-wilhelm-backhaus-decca-mono-early-1950s

Now I haven't checked to see whether that's also what he has posted on this thread but logic would suggest that it is. One thing he emphasised in his post was WBs willingness to make tempo changes which concerned me. Speeding up and slowing down during a movement seemed not to be the way that Beethoven should be approached so I listened with some trepidation.

In general, most of those changes of tempo worked very well (some spectacularly) and in some others not at all.

What stood out was the fresh (to me) ideas that Backhaus had about interpretation, dynamic range and tone colour. He had ideas that I had never contemplated and I loved the way many of them worked.

The down side of the cycle (and Todd hints strongly at it in his review) was the last five sonatas. To me this is some of the deepest and profound piano writing of all time and Backhaus does not capture this. It sounds rather perfunctory in many places and there are hints of what I did not like with the Gulda cycle. Over quick tempos and the music seems to be played on a note by note basis with the phrasing needed missing the mark.

One overall impression that stuck with me. If I'd been told that these were live performances I would have believed it because spontaneity just seemed to imbue so much of this cycle. I've heard many LvB cycles described as a personal statement but this definitely fits that description.

I quite like Backhaus in that mono cycle's op. 111. Ernst Levy (composer/pianist/musicologist) was also loose with tempo, I prefer him in the Hammerklavier and late sonatas. Levy would probably make my top 5 for late Beethoven interpreters.

What do you make of Backhaus in the Hammerklavier?

[George]

Top Tier – The Holy Tetrarchy
Annie Fischer (Hungarton)
Friedrich Gulda (Amadeo)
Wilhelm Kempff (DG, mono)
Wilhelm Backhaus (mono)

[Rudolf Serkin; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]


Top Tier – The Rest of the Top Ten (sort of in order)
Wilhelm Kempff (DG, stereo)
Eric Heidsieck
Russell Sherman
Andrea Lucchesini
Emil Gilels
Daniel-Ben Pienaar

[Sviatoslav Richter; OK, he didn't complete a cycle, but this is where he belongs]

I know Solomon only recorded 18 of them, but I am curious where you'd place him.