Elgar's Hillside

[Roasted Swan]

Revisiting more Elgar discs today led to this one;



Another fine disc - very well played and recorded (by Brian Culverhouse) in Henry Wood Hall.  Butt has a fairly broad and opulent approach to this music but it emerges as wonderfully grand.  "In the South" is obviously a fine work and "Froissart" shows so much promise but in some ways the other 2 works had me thinking more today.  They are the Meditation from "Light of Life" and the 1910 "Coronation March".  The former is a genuinely beautiful and heart-felt work.  yes for sure there is more than a whiff of Victorian piety but with that sense of sincerity that Elgar could produce that disarms criticism.

With the Coronation March - it struck me how subtle and skilfull Egar is in these nominally "occasional" marches.  The easy/lazy criticism that these marches "just" embody a kind of Colonial/Imperial arrogance is to fundamentally not understand them.  There is a sense of unease and doubt in just about ALL of Elgar's marches that disarms such criticism.  Apart from "Land of Hope and Glory" (where Elgar hated the words written after he'd written the march) ALL his marches have this quality.  Unlike say Walton - often cited as Elgar's march-heir who literally wrote one march (and a trmendous one it is - Crown Imperial) about ten times!

I suspect people who believe that Elgar's marches asre just jingoistic haven't really listened to them all or at all.......

[Irons]

Inspired by RS post above I decided to stray off the beaten track of Elgar recordings on my shelves.



George Weldon is largely forgotten since his death and not exactly a prolific recording artist during his lifetime.
I enjoyed his Elgar very much. 'Cockaigne' is, as it must be, brisk and dynamic with moments of calm.
The standout track for me 'Chanson de Martin' meltingly beautiful, never heard it better.
Marches are very good as is Serenade for Strings. A most satisfying all-round Elgar recording.   

[Atriod]

I did wonder. Thanks.

The LPO recordings of the first two symphonies were released by Lyrita on CD. Was there a reason Lyrita recorded Symphony 2 twice with the same conductor but a different orchestra?

[Roasted Swan]

The LPO recordings of the first two symphonies were released by Lyrita on CD. Was there a reason Lyrita recorded Symphony 2 twice with the same conductor but a different orchestra?

Not sure sure what you mean.  With Boult Lyrita only recorded the Elgar symphonies once - with the LPO.  One of their earliest recordings.....

[Irons]

The LPO recordings of the first two symphonies were released by Lyrita on CD. Was there a reason Lyrita recorded Symphony 2 twice with the same conductor but a different orchestra?

Not sure sure what you mean.  With Boult Lyrita only recorded the Elgar symphonies once - with the LPO.  One of their earliest recordings.....

Maybe that I mentioned another Boult recording of the 2nd Symphony has caused some confusion.

[Roasted Swan]

Just listened to a disc that ticked several boxes at once in a rather pleasing way;



1) The whole disc is very fine but the coupling of "The Banner of St. George" is enjoyably apt today of all days.
2)  An "In Memoriam" for Andrew Davis - this is exactly the kind of recording he did so well.  Unfamiliar British music directed with zest and enthusiasm and considerable musical insight.  The only other recording was conducted by another great British conductor with very similar qualities - Vernon Handley
3)  Both works on this generously filled disc are "early" (pre-Engima - but not by much) and as a composer he will still be tarred with the brush of Imperial jingoism.  But listening to these made me ponder on the role of a composer within his society.  Surely a successful composer is one who speaks to his audience in a manner that the audience can relate to and understand.  A great composer will push the boundaries (or redefine them) for his age.  In the late Victorian age before composer royalties of "Performing Rights" if a composer could not sell a work to a publisher and by extension an audience/performers he would be very broke.  So why should Elgar - or any composer in a similar position - be criticised or dismissed 125 years later simply for be the sounding board (or mirror - to mix metaphors) for the time in which he lived.  Aspects of the libretti of both works sit slightly uneasily today but for me this does not diminish the skill of the musical setting or the sincerity of the writing.  And to give these works their best chance they need performances of the commitment and zeal they get here.

Hurrah for Elgar and Hurrah for Andrew Davis......

[LKB]

Here's Enigma in another impressive performance on April 6th from the Frankfurt Radio Symphony, conducted by Alain Altinoglu:

https://youtu.be/RTa8fY1z3aA?si=Tium_md_2dFzCSSv

There is some very fine playing, and the end of " Nimrod " is truly sublime.

[Elgarian Redux]

So why should Elgar - or any composer in a similar position - be criticised or dismissed 125 years later simply for be the sounding board (or mirror - to mix metaphors) for the time in which he lived. 

Oh yes. John Ruskin coined the term 'pathetic fallacy' to define the act of projecting our own emotion into the object that inspires it (to speak of 'the cruel sea', for example), but one can go further. There exists a kind of 'Temporal Pathetic Fallacy', whereby we project our own emotional concerns, equally fallaciously, backwards into history. As you observe, Elgar could no more escape the deeply embedded culture and values of his age any more than we can escape our own, and to disapprove of his music on those grounds is to lose sight of that.

[lordlance]

I thought that Elgar was sterile and academic like Bach but I finally gave it another go with Barenboim's performance with Staatskapelle Berlin - the Proms telecast. I have been told it's conducted faster than normal which is always good in my book. 

The piece is gigantic so it was overwhelming but it didn't sound sterile at least. I will probably have to hear it many more times before I can make sense of it - the same feeling I got from Bax's Piano Quintet.

[71 dB]

I thought that Elgar was sterile and academic

Considering Elgar was mostly self-taught (because his family didn't have the money to pay for formal music education), "academic" might be the worst label for him.

Sterile is also a term I wouldn't use with Elgar. His music sounds colourful, rich and emotional to my ears, but these are obviously subjective impressions.

The piece is gigantic so it was overwhelming but it didn't sound sterile at least. I will probably have to hear it many more times before I can make sense of it - the same feeling I got from Bax's Piano Quintet.

Elgar's music requires repetitive listening to properly open up, especially if you are new to his musical language. Back in the day when I was getting into his music I needed to hear his symphonies 6-7 times to fully get them. Later on when I was much more experienced with his music, getting his works became a lot easier.

[DavidW]

I will probably have to hear it many more times before I can make sense of it

That is the best approach for ANY music that you're not familiar with.  Give yourself time and space to adjust to the style, to feel it more deeply, to see the forest emerge from the trees.  And also listening on different days with different moods helps you clarify how much you respond in general versus in that specific moment.

[Karl Henning]

That is the best approach for ANY music that you're not familiar with.  Give yourself time and space to adjust to the style, to feel it more deeply, to see the forest emerge from the trees.  And also listening on different days with different moods helps you clarify how much you respond in general versus in that specific moment.

Very true. Our ears change. 

[lordlance]

Considering Elgar was mostly self-taught (because his family didn't have the money to pay for formal music education), "academic" might be the worst label for him.

I read that the last time I said it but that didn't really change it sounding academic or dry to me back then. I guess Elgar was an exceptional autodidact.

[Luke]

Quite honestly I can't hear anything even remotely academic in Elgar, and least of all in his most important pieces. Not a shred of the formulaic or by-the-book in symphonies or concerti, for instance - everything comes solely from a highly sensitive inner imperative.

[LKB]

Just as an aside, l found the description of Bach as " sterile and academic " quite funny.

As for Sir Edward, his orchestral vocabulary seems reminiscent of Brahms, at least to my ear. Fullness and warmth, with a balanced sense of emotional color. Quite accessible, in every piece of his that I've encountered.

He might not have the reputation of a pioneer or visionary, but l never feel like Elgar is wasting my time.

[71 dB]

I guess Elgar was an exceptional autodidact.

Obviously Elgar was exceptionally talented and also quite smart extending his intellectual curiosities beyond music into the realm of natural sciences such as biology and chemistry. It did help a lot that his father kept a music store and Elgar had access to notes of many works to study on his own.

Just as an aside, l found the description of Bach as " sterile and academic " quite funny.

Yeah, that is funny, but since this is the Elgar thread, I didn't touch that part of the post.

[Karl Henning]

Just as an aside, l found the description of Bach as " sterile and academic " quite funny.

Certainly nothing like my impression of Bach. Whether that's related to early experience inhaling Wendy Carlos' Well-Tempered Synthesizer, I could not quite unpack.

[Elgarian Redux]

He might not have the reputation of a pioneer or visionary

Depends what you mean by 'visionary', I suppose, but to a very great extent since I first heard 'Introduction and Allegro for Strings' at the age of sixteen, my response to landscape has been very strongly influenced by Elgar's music. Especially in works like the chamber pieces, the cello concerto, and parts of the 1st symphony ('play this as if it were something you saw down by the river', he told an orchestra he was conducting when they came to the slow movement), I always find a musical vision of the English landscape that has greatly enhanced my own experience of it during the last 60 years.

[Karl Henning]

Depends what you mean by 'visionary', I suppose, but to a very great extent since I first heard 'Introduction and Allegro for Strings' at the age of sixteen, my response to landscape has been very strongly influenced by Elgar's music. Especially in works like the chamber pieces, the cello concerto, and parts of the 1st symphony ('play this as if it were something you saw down by the river', he told an orchestra he was conducting when they came to the slow movement), I always find a musical vision of the English landscape that has greatly enhanced my own experience of it during the last 60 years.

I was more aged when I first engaged with the Introduction and Allegro, but it likewise expanded my vision.

[DavidW]

I like how lordlance's post is about how his preconceptions about Elgar were wrong, and Elgar's music is great... but we just focus on those preconceptions, which wasn't the point of his post!

I for one welcome you to the hillside.  I made that discovery back in the day with the cello concerto and in recent years I got into the symphonies (harder nuts to crack, but well worth it).

If you like chamber music, try Elgar's string quartet.