Charles Koechlin(1867-1950)

[Brahmsian]

Great and singular music indeed, although I don't know that recording (I'm only familiar with the Zinman recording). From this composer I also consider Vers la voûte étoilée to be another exceptional and very poignant piece. This is a splendid recording of it:

Just listening to this now and Vers la voûte étoilée is indeed an incredibly beautiful composition. Some terrific liner notes by our fellow GMGer Jens F. Laurson @SurprisedByBeauty

[pjme]

Yes that is indeed the (only) recording of these Chorals for "open air festivals/ popular festivals". But the sound is dated and definitely not top notch.
If I'm not mistaken they are on Spotify.

Peter

I love this music! Crisp, fresh, notes of light acidity and yet grand...
This Japanese group sounds better than the Dondeyne/Gardiens de la Paix, band...

[Karl Henning]

Just listening to this now and Vers la voûte étoilée is indeed an incredibly beautiful composition. Some terrific liner notes by our fellow GMGer Jens F. Laurson @SurprisedByBeauty

I've been tepid about the recording, much as I love Vers la voûte étoilée, due to uncertainty trumping curiosity viz. the Symphony. But notes by our @SurprisedByBeauty cast another light on the matter entirely.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

I've been tepid about the recording, much as I love Vers la voûte étoilée, due to uncertainty trumping curiosity viz. the Symphony. But notes by our @SurprisedByBeauty cast another light on the matter entirely.

   Ha! Thanks for the -- I think -- compliment. 

[ChamberNut]

First listen to this recording. One of the most remarkable and colourful orchestral works I've ever heard from any composer. So incredibly captivating!

I do prefer the Segerstam recording to this one, it would seem.

[Mandryka]

Good article on Les Heures Persanes


https://bnu.hypotheses.org/18389

[Mandryka]

Lovers of the colours and liquidity of the piano Les Heures Persanes will also love the colours and liquidity of  Nicola Woodward's Les Chants de Nectaire here

[SonicMan46]

Well, has been 2 years since my last post in this thread, so decided to pull out my Koechlin collection - still 14 discs as seen in the attachment. SWR Music has released two 7-CD boxes of the chamber and the orchestral works (probably already own much of this music, some in the same recordings).

But interested in Vols. 1 & 3 (V. 2 is Les Heures Persanes; already own the Stott recording) of the piano music with Michael Korstick - any comments? Some reviews are attached, all good except for one of V. 1 (Clements from 'The Guardian') - also curious in the The Seven Stars Symphony - seem to be a handful of recordings but worth owning?  Thanks all - Dave

ADDENDUM: just found another piano recording by Mireille Guillaume - inserted below - 2 CDs - checking the listing of works, there is some overlap to Korstick's discs 1 & 3, but just curious if anyone has heard either of these recordings?  Thanks.

[Spotted Horses]

The smaller the resources, the better the music, in Koechlin. As the ensemble get smaller it gets harder to take refuge in diaphanous chord voicings, and he has to actually write music! I think my favorite work by Koechlin (and the first I heard) is the Idyl for two Clarinets, Op 155



One and a half minutes of bliss.

[Mandryka]

The smaller the resources, the better the music, in Koechlin.

What do you make of the second symphony, here conducted by Constantin Silvestri?

[pjme]

Koechlin's second symphony is a great and unusual work. This (BBC?) 1967 recording with Silvestri conducting is all we have.
The symphony was premiered in Mexico (thanks to Carlos Chavez) , on 29 august 1952.

The symphony (5 movements) was composed during WWII (1943-1944) and belongs to the final series of large scale symphonic outpourings of his last years: l'Offrande musicale sur le nom de Bach, Le docteur Fabricius and Le buisson ardent.
The work is scored for 4 flutes, oboes, bassoons and clarinets, 6 horns, 4 trumpets and 4 trombones, 2 sax, tuba, large percussion section with marimba, xylophone, vibraphone, celesta, cymbals, tamtam, timpani, piano, harps, organ, 4 ondes Martenot, strings.
The ondes appear only in the Scherzo (1 instrument), 4 ondes in the Fugue modale, 2 in the Finale.


1/The first movement is an Andante presque adagio
2/The second movement, Scherzo, is based on themes from a suite for cor anglais op.185
3/The third movement, Andante, is composed of 6 chorals:
1= Requête à l'inconnaissable" - La douleur humaine  (Request to the Unknowable - Human pain)
2= Aegri somnia (Patient's dreams)
3= Pour la consolation des pauvres âmes ( For the consolation of poor souls)
3 bis = an alternative for this choral exists: "La mer sereine" - Calm sea
4= Les goélands sur la mer - (Gulls on the sea)
4 bis = alternatif "Le vaisseau calme" - (The calm ship) for string quartet only!
5= Berceuse marine ( for 3 horns and strings)
6= Vers la cime (Towards the summit)
4/The Fugue modale on a theme by Catherine Urner exists in two versions:
one for orchestra and 4 ondes Martenot, one for orchestra without the ondes, but with 2 saxophones, 3 trumpets, 3 trombones and piano.
It is an allegretto "gai et allégé de toute ombre".
5/The mighty  "Final" ( allegro moderato) is based on a theme that Koechlin qualifies as "lumière pure" - pure light!

All information from "Charles Koechlin, compositeur et humaniste" ed. VRIN 2010

I doubt I will hear a modern, complete performance in my life time.

[Mandryka]

Lovely performance of the violin sonata -  but who's playing? And where's the quintet?

https://open.spotify.com/album/2wJUhCbjVJZBSewXUuRlkN

[Mandryka]

All information from "Charles Koechlin, compositeur et humaniste" ed. VRIN 2010

I doubt I will hear a modern, complete performance in my life time.

What do you think of this book? It seems to be the only book on Koechlin which is easy to buy. Does it have a decent index?

[pjme]

What do you think of this book? It seems to be the only book on Koechlin which is easy to buy. Does it have a decent index?

I read years ago in Robert Orledge "Koechlin, His Life & works" (first published in 1989), but wasn't able to buy it. Than later, that book proved almost impossible to find.
Anyway, "Charles Koechlin, compositeur et humaniste" (585 pages) offers a series of well documented texts on his composing techniques, musical language and aesthetic thinking.

Contents

Introduction
Musique et société
Koechlin conférencier - Les conférences de Koechlin - Koechlin et la musique pour le peuple - L'humanisme à la rencontre du socialisme - Koechlin politicien, l'engagement des années 1930.
Esthétique et composition
L'Abbaye. une nouvelle poétique du réligieux - La mélodie pour voix et piano - Koechlin et l'art de lire l'avenir de la musique dans les quartes - Chausson/Koechlin, deux lectures du Colibri de Leconte de l'Isle.
Les processus compositionnels/ illustration dans La course du printemps -reflexions sur Koechlin et la symphonie - Schoenberg dans la vie et l'oeuvre de Koechlin - La Grèce de Koechlin
Langage musical
Contrepoint et Fugue /l'Offrande musicale - Le traité de l'harmonie - L'universalité de la méthode Koechlin - L'écriture pour quatuor à cordes - Structure argumentative de quelques traités de Koechlin
Cinéma et films imaginaires
Koechlin et la musique pour l'image - Unité et fonctionnalité de la musique de film chez Koechlin - Editer Daisy Hamilton.
Le musicien et ses contemporains
Koechlin et Alfred Bruneau - Koechlin et de Falla- Koechlin pédagogue influence sur Emile Goué.
Témoignages
Koechlin photographe - Koechlin et l'influence de Cathérine Urner

Biographie
Index des noms
Index des oeuvres
Table des matières.

As I'm not technically trained musically, a huge amount of the contents are way above my comprehension. Still, I found a lot of new information on Koechlin and find the book a great read. Alas, afaik, only in French.

Peter

[pjme]

Koechlin and Urner worked together on a symphonic poem "The bride of god" - real mystery score!
https://www.erudit.org/fr/revues/sqrm/2015-v16-n1-2-sqrm03043/1039612ar/

" The extant manuscript sources for The Bride of God do not entirely clarify the numerous questions that attend to the work's compositional authorship. Though we can be certain that the orchestration and some transitional passages are by Koechlin, the remaining evidence (as gleaned from letters and diary entries) suggests that Urner's role in the conception and musical rendering of the work was far more important than has been previously stated. Throughout the late 1920s Urner's musical style was clearly indebted to the influence of Koechlin, but the idea that she lacked the necessary skill or ambition to undertake ambitious projects was later overstated by her teacher and deserves to be debunked entirely through a closer examination of her archive and the eventual performance of her large-scale works of the 1930s."

[Mandryka]

I read years ago in Robert Orledge "Koechlin, His Life & works" (first published in 1989), but wasn't able to buy it. Than later, that book proved almost impossible to find.
Anyway, "Charles Koechlin, compositeur et humaniste" (585 pages) offers a series of well documented texts on his composing techniques, musical language and aesthetic thinking.

Contents

Introduction
Musique et société
Koechlin conférencier - Les conférences de Koechlin - Koechlin et la musique pour le peuple - L'humanisme à la rencontre du socialisme - Koechlin politicien, l'engagement des années 1930.
Esthétique et composition
L'Abbaye. une nouvelle poétique du réligieux - La mélodie pour voix et piano - Koechlin et l'art de lire l'avenir de la musique dans les quartes - Chausson/Koechlin, deux lectures du Colibri de Leconte de l'Isle.
Les processus compositionnels/ illustration dans La course du printemps -reflexions sur Koechlin et la symphonie - Schoenberg dans la vie et l'oeuvre de Koechlin - La Grèce de Koechlin
Langage musical
Contrepoint et Fugue /l'Offrande musicale - Le traité de l'harmonie - L'universalité de la méthode Koechlin - L'écriture pour quatuor à cordes - Structure argumentative de quelques traités de Koechlin
Cinéma et films imaginaires
Koechlin et la musique pour l'image - Unité et fonctionnalité de la musique de film chez Koechlin - Editer Daisy Hamilton.
Le musicien et ses contemporains
Koechlin et Alfred Bruneau - Koechlin et de Falla- Koechlin pédagogue influence sur Emile Goué.
Témoignages
Koechlin photographe - Koechlin et l'influence de Cathérine Urner

Biographie
Index des noms
Index des oeuvres
Table des matières.

As I'm not technically trained musically, a huge amount of the contents are way above my comprehension. Still, I found a lot of new information on Koechlin and find the book a great read. Alas, afaik, only in French.

Peter

Cheers, I'll get it - the book by Orledge has a very good reputation but is too expensive for me.

[Mandryka]

Excellent performance of the op 53 viola sonata here, Roger Benedict and Timothy Young. War time tragedy music, a bit predictable maybe when you know the Koechlin style from this period, but still worth exploring. Tremendous final movement.

[Mandryka]

Lovely performance of the violin sonata -  but who's playing? And where's the quintet?

https://open.spotify.com/album/2wJUhCbjVJZBSewXUuRlkN

Answers here


https://www.discogs.com/release/15018647-Charles-Koechlin-Sonate-Opus-64-Pour-Violon-Et-Piano-Quintette-Opus-80-Pour-2-Violons-Alto-Violoncel

https://open.spotify.com/album/4OyAyZq4D7xHtJ97Hvlv1K

[ritter]

It's purely anecdotal, of course (we all know that composers' comments on other composers must be taken with a pinch of salt), but I am reading a book on the initial stages of George Balanchine's and Lincoln Kirstein's collaboration in America (in what would later result in the New York City Ballet). One of the early offerings of the School of American Ballet was a revival of Errante, which uses Schubert's Wanderer-Fantasie, orchestrated by Koechlin. Stravinsky, who was passing through New York in those days (mid-1930s) is quoted as finding the Koechlin orchestration "dreadful". 

Here Pavel Tchelitchev's set design of the ballet (which had had its world première in Pariss in 1933):

[Mandryka]

He wrote a 4 volume book on orchestration, Traité de l'orchestration. I guess that shows he had some ideas about it!

I should say that his orchestration divides people. I know someone who finds his chamber music colourless but his orchestral music fabulous and innovative. I don't often let orchestras into the house, and I don't like the Wanderer Fantasy at all - so I can't comment with confidence - that being said I'm listening now and I think it's much less vulgar than Liszt's. Well worth a shot if the music and orchestras are your poison, I'd say.

Searching for "Koechlin Fantasy" I found this - I haven't watched it yet