What are you listening 2 now?

[DavidW]

Brian might want to not read this post.

He should know by now not to trust Arkivmusic!

[DavidW]

I received this response regarding the bronzing CD.


Dear Mr/Ms .......  ,

We are sorry that you have a bronzed Hyperion CD. Unfortunately, it is now some years since we offered to replace bronzed discs: quite apart from their age (they are all now at least 30 years old) most are no longer available on CD, and I'm afraid that this is the case with your copy of CDA66395 (Gibbons & Lupo: Music for Prince Charles), which was deleted some years ago.

However, in common with the rest of the Hyperion catalogue, the album is now available to stream on Apple Music and Spotify: there are further details at https://hyperion.lnk.to/cda66395.

With apologies not to be able to assist on this occasion,

Edward

Edward Taylor

for Hyperion Records Limited / Universal Music Group

4 Pancras Square, King's Cross, London N1C 4AG

www.hyperion-records.co.uk

So they wouldn't even offer you a download??  I can't believe that!  An offer to stream sucks because you paid for the music, having to pay for a service to stream what you already own is not an answer.  That is terrible of Hyperion and not the CS I've received in the past.

[Spotted Horses]

Beethoven: Eroica Symphony

On to the Third now, after the Fifth a couple of days ago, and like that later symphony, greatly enjoyed. Manacorda seems to have the knack of starting both very naturally, as if they're just two pieces for your perusal, rather than the two awe-inspiring icons they obviously are, and ones that have yet to reveal and prove themselves. This has a real liberating effect on proceedings, and the music flourishes in such a breath of fresh air. Music that I have known well for fifty years feels new again, and that's pretty thrilling.

Pulled up the 7th (finale) from this cycle for a quick sample, and the first thing that struck me was how reverberant it was, like it was recorded from the lobby. Then I noticed that the recording has available Dolby Atmos, and when I switched Dolby Atmos off, it sounded normal. I make quick samples of this set, and Vriend, with the idea of listening to a contemporary cycle. Vriend didn't sound too different from Karajan ('63 or '77) so maybe I'll go with Manacorda.

Just a note about Atmos and Apple spacial audio. First I was listening with AirPods Max using an older Intel based MacBook (can't update past Monterey) and AirPods spacial audio is not supported. I get the very reverberant sound if Atmos is enabled, even though no spacial audio on output. On my newer Apple Silicon map the washy sound appears when I enable spacial audio on the AirPods Max. The bottom line, I don't like Dolby Atmos for classical music (at least based on this recording). AirPods Max also have spacialized stereo for generic 2 channel programs, but I have not found it makes any audible difference.

[DavidW]

Just a note about Atmos and Apple spacial audio. First I was listening with AirPods Max using an older Intel based MacBook (can't update past Monterey) and AirPods spacial audio is not supported. I get the very reverberant sound if Atmos is enabled, even though no spacial audio on output. On my newer Apple Silicon map the washy sound appears when I enable spacial audio on the AirPods Max. The bottom line, I don't like Dolby Atmos for classical music (at least based on this recording). AirPods Max also have spacialized stereo for generic 2 channel programs, but I have not found it makes any audible difference.

I have full support for spatial audio and Dolby Atmos through my Iphone.  My experience is that the soundstage is a bit deeper and that is about it.  It is absolutely not like a binaural recording.  Some youtuber (but I forget who now) described it as super stereo which I think is more accurate!

[Spotted Horses]

I have full support for spatial audio and Dolby Atmos through my Iphone.  My experience is that the soundstage is a bit deeper and that is about it.  It is absolutely not like a binaural recording.  Some youtuber (but I forget who now) described it as super stereo which I think is more accurate!

Spacialization of stereo is super-stereo? I guess the effect of Dolby Atmos will depend on the production. It was not subtle in the case of the Manacorda. Back in the day when I had a SACD player connected to my 5.1 channel rig, surround sound was mostly rather subtle, with some exceptions.

[DavidW]

Spacialization of stereo is super-stereo? I guess the effect of Dolby Atmos will depend on the production. It was not subtle in the case of the Manacorda. Back in the day when I had a SACD player connected to my 5.1 channel rig, surround sound was mostly rather subtle, with some exceptions.

No this wasn't an attempt to precisely define the sound! I should have found and posted the video because tone is not communicated adequately through text. 

He described it as super stereo because IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE SURROUND SOUND.  That is it.  It is just marketing bs, it is glorified stereo.  There is nothing truly special about Apple's Spatial Audio.  If you don't have it because your Mac is too old, you are not missing out.

As for sacd 5.1 sometimes actually the surround did add something.  And I think if you listened to spatial audio on the Max and then to a multichannel sacd on your rig you would definitely say that they did not sound the same.  Honestly those Apple headphones are great, but they don't even the soundstage that a good pair of open air headphones have.  Certainly they were never going to manage surround sound at all.

I listened to a recording with Dolby Atmos on those headphones yesterday and it sounded like stereo.  But I've heard lots of Dolby Atmos on my soundbar and the verticality of the sound that it adds cannot be heard on headphones.  PERIOD.  Any headphones.  It takes space that they just don't have.  If you don't know, most of what Atmos brings is another dimension to the sound through top firing speakers.

[Spotted Horses]

Honestly those Apple headphones are great, but they don't even the soundstage that a good pair of open air headphones have

I have always preferred open-back but my current arrangements require sound isolation. My two options now are the AirPods Max (which I usually use with noise cancelation off, the closed back isolation is enough) or Shure SRH-1540's. I used to use BeyerDynamic T1s (first generation) which I prefer for the open soundstage, but which I find inferior to the Shure headphones for tonal balance.

[DavidW]

I have always preferred open-back but my current arrangements require sound isolation. My two options now are the AirPods Max (which I usually use with noise cancelation off, the closed back isolation is enough) or Shure SRH-1540's. I used to use BeyerDynamic T1s (first generation) which I prefer for the open soundstage, but which I find inferior to the Shure headphones for tonal balance.

I have both (Shure and Max).  The Shure sounds better, but I literally listened to a symphony while vacuuming my house.  It tuned out the dishwasher, the dryer, the vacuum cleaner and still had the volume (that most BT headphones don't have) to play that symphony with AUTHORITY.

[Spotted Horses]

I have both (Shure and Max).  The Shure sounds better, but I literally listened to a symphony while vacuuming my house.  It tuned out the dishwasher, the dryer, the vacuum cleaner and still had the volume (that most BT headphones don't have) to play that symphony with AUTHORITY.

I've also got the Sony M4 noise canceling bluetooth, which I hardly use. I'm a big Shure believer now. If I wanted to go back to open back for situations when it is possible I'd ditch my old headphones and get SRH-1840s.

Now, we are way off topic, should be on the headphone thread.

[Iota]

Saw this recording mentioned, maybe here, maybe on Facebook, Prokofiev Violin Concerto No 1, Josefowicz/Dutoit.



Never heard the piece before. Not a typical romantic concerto. Outer movements are sort of fantasias, the central movement a lithe and aggressive scherzo. Beautifully played.

Possibly me, I posted about that recording a couple of days ago. Anyway it's a work I love unequivocally in a very charismatic recording, well worth getting to know I think.

[Spotted Horses]

Possibly me, I posted about that recording a couple of days ago. Anyway it's a work I love unequivocally in a very charismatic recording, well worth getting to know I think.

I owe you a debt of thanks, then.

I like this recording a lot. I am thinking of listen to alternates, including Pietsch, and Steinbacher, whose first movement is taken slower. I also noticed that there is a Ricci/Ansermet recording, with overpowering vibrato.

[Brian]

Until seeing this album, I didn't realize I'd never heard or thought about Kodaly's piano music.



The complete piano canon is three works:
- the Dances of Marosszek in their original piano version, which to my surprise I enjoyed more than any orchestral performance I've heard
- Meditation sur un motif de Claude Debussy (1907), a rather dark impressionist miniature. The booklet doesn't identify the Debussy origin and I don't know it.
- Seven Pieces, Op. 11, a collection that amounts to 23 minutes and spans 1910-18. They are diverse: the opening 59-second miniature is quite modernist, while others are directly inspired by folk material. The suite overall sits nicely alongside similar collections by Bartok.

With Kodaly leaving only 40 minutes of piano music, the Liszt is a very substantial filler.

Simon plays a Bosendorfer for the Kodaly, which is a great choice - the folksy evocations of other instruments, using the very top octave or two of the piano, sound absolutely great with this piano's rather old-fashioned, thin, cembalom-like sonority. However, when Simon plays loudly, the sound is a little glassy. It was recorded in 1981 in Robert von Bahr's house.

All in all, very pleased to go down this little byway. I will revisit every so often.

-

SH, glad you found the Prokofiev 1, a gem that is underrated because of its unusual structure/length. I don't make a real study of the discography but have enjoyed both of FPZ's recordings of it.

[ritter]

Disc 39, the last three Brandenburgs.  These recordings of those works are the worst I've heard.  I will never listen to them again.

I haven't heard them, and am not tempted to do so after reading your comment. But, Abbado's second recording of the Brandenburg Concertos, with "his" Orchestra Mozart and some very distinguished soloists (on CD and DVD) is quite an achievement IMHO. Really worth checking out.

TD: First listen to Toscanini's 1953 performance of Beethoven's Missa Solemnis.



I heard the work live in concert for the first time 10 days ago, in an excellent performance of the Spanish National Orchestra under David Afkham. TBH, my appreciation of the work improved only slightly, as it's imbalances are if anything even more noticeable in live performance. The relentlessness of the first three sections is really trying on my nerves (even if the grandeur of the first measures of the Kyrie is quite impressive). But, in concert, the beauties of the Sanctus and (to a slightly lesser extent) the Agnus Dei are more noticeable.

Toscanini, as could be expected, shapes the whole work masterfully, and his soloists are very good (as is the chorus — it is admirable how Robert Shaw got his choristers to sing idiomatically and with good pronunciation in all those NBC broadcasts).

All in all, a Toscanini delivers a strong performance of a work I still have issues with.

[Todd]

I haven't heard them, and am not tempted to do so after reading your comment. But, Abbado's second recording of the Brandenburg Concertos, with "his" Orchestra Mozart and some very distinguished soloists (on CD and DVD) is quite an achievement IMHO. Really worth checking out.

I have that set, and while I'm not much of a fan of it, it is much better than his first recording.

[ritter]

Revisiting Gianluca Cascioli's recording of the Debussy Préludes (after so much talk about it in the relevant thread)..




I see now that (uncharacteristically for me) I wrote a glowing review on Spanish Amazon when I purchased this nine years ago. I had completely forgotten about that, but would repeat my praise if I were getting to know the recording today for the first time (even if I do have some minor quibbles: for instance, Danseuses de Delphes appears a tad too deliberate at some points).

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Hindemith: Symphonische Tänze. RIAS-Symphonie-Orchester · Ferenc Fricsay.

[foxandpeng]

There is a lot I love about Rautavaara... but I realized that I've only scratched the surface of his concertos!  I need to fix that.

I commend Rautavaara to you either enthusiasm. Symphonies, concertos... the lot. One of my favourite composers by some distance.

[Todd]

[brewski]

Kagel

conclusion

This label is one of the best arguments for "CDs as objects." In addition to the caliber of their recordings, the quality of their production (paper and printing) is outstanding.

-Bruce

[Lisztianwagner]

Sergei Rachmaninov
Symphony No.1

Vladimir Ashkenazy & Concertgebouw Orchestra