The football (soccer) thread

[Jo498]

Disappointing match but France was dominant and not undeservedly the winner. I still hope they don't get much further with such a defense dominated style.

[Florestan]

Disappointing match but France was dominant and not undeservedly the winner. I still hope they don't get much further with such a defense dominated style.

Going to quarter finals with only 3 goals, two of which were actually own goals... Just a little better than England. 

[Iota]

His record over his tenure doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Southgate has never won a game in tournament football upsetting the odds when the opponents were favourite to win. When the opposition get serious England are eliminated. 

Interesting to hear. The reason I got the impression that Southgate must have had some impressive moments in his managerial history is that the commentator in yesterday's match said (if I'm remembering correctly) that when Southgate  took over, the team and the set up was in chaos, he had transformed it into a well-performing outfit.

Slovakia were better organised and deserved to win. The one difference being England have world-class players and what Bellingham did in the 96 minute is world-class. A moment of brilliance. Southgate is the highest paid coach at this tournament and that he is unable to get a tune out of this group of exceptional players is damming. 

This was my gut feeling too. Slovakia seemed a lively, talented team who seemed set to win. And before Bellingham's amazing goal, England had started to look almost like a team that wanted putting out of their (and their fans) misery.

[Florestan]

before Bellingham's amazing goal, England...

...seemed like they were barely alive. 

[Iota]

...seemed like they were barely alive. 

Well their imagination certainly seemed on life support.

[Madiel]

The first major tournament that Southgate was in charge, the team exceeded expectations.

[Irons]

The first major tournament that Southgate was in charge, the team exceeded expectations.

After "Big Sam" I could have done that.

Out of the big football nations - France, Germany and Italy - England are the only one without a trophy in 2000's. This is of course not all down to Southgate. Supposedly best league in world football and second best on the International stage is frustrating.

I would love Southgate make me eat my words!

[ritter]

... Supposedly best league in world football...

A quiet "ehem" could be heard coming from Spain... 

[Irons]

A quiet "ehem" could be heard coming from Spain... 

Fair enough. Thought may not get away with that one!

My club have just appointed a Spanish coach - and he seems a very nice chap. Our Director of Football is German. 

[Holden]

Fair enough. Thought may not get away with that one!

My club have just appointed a Spanish coach - and he seems a very nice chap. Our Director of Football is German. 

So you're a Seagull?

[AnotherSpin]

His record over his tenure doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Southgate has never won a game in tournament football upsetting the odds when the opponents were favourite to win. When the opposition get serious England are eliminated.
Slovakia were better organised and deserved to win. The one difference being England have world-class players and what Bellingham did in the 96 minute is world-class. A moment of brilliance. Southgate is the highest paid coach at this tournament and that he is unable to get a tune out of this group of exceptional players is damming.   

I watched a 15 minute review of the game. The goal a minute and a half before the added time expired was a rapturous moment, that's what football is all about. The Slovakian team reminded me of the Soviet national teams (not so in football, but in ice hockey in the 60s and 70s). The same utter seriousness of people who realise that if they don't give their best, they will face the most serious consequences at home.

[Papy Oli]

After "Big Sam" I could have done that.

Out of the big football nations - France, Germany and Italy - England are the only one without a trophy in 2000's. This is of course not all down to Southgate. Supposedly best league in world football and second best on the International stage is frustrating.

I would love Southgate make me eat my words!

Sacrebleu, it shouldn't be my job but I'll have to put a good word in for Southgate.

- in the 20 years prior to Southgate, you could always hear about club "cliques" and rivalries within the English camp. That stopped with him and the rivalries stayed out at the door.

- All you could hear about prior to any tournaments in England pre-2016 was "are we going to have another heartbreak on penalties", cue videos on repeat of Batty, Southgate, Waddle and the likes, again and again.
Him of all people demystified this shoot-out malarkey and England finally won one. And when England lost one, that was in the final of the euro and yet he backed up his team, and knowing what Saka was going through and the despicable pile up on this player, he defended him to the hilt. I have not seen any such penalty heartbreak video onslaught this year, have you ? He finally taught everybody to move on a bit. He had, ages ago.

- He has been the coach for what, 8 years? In that time, he reached a WC 2018 Semi-final, a Euro 2020 Final. Basically the 2 best results of an England team since Euro 1996 and Italia 90. best run in 20+ years. He is one game away from reaching another major Semi-final.

- Have you had a media circus around him or the team, like you've had around Allardyce, Hodgson, Capello, Eriksson, MacLaren, Hoddle ? Nope.

- England has not played great at all or unexciting football... but then again, in this Euro, who has besides Germany, Spain, Georgia, and Austria maybe so far ? France has not scored in open play yet, we got someone else to do it for us. Yesterday was was the first game with some semblance of phases and attacking spells, against a Belgian team that parked the bus. France got the job done. Just like England did on Sunday.

- Not everybody becomes a footballing force overnight and reach some consistency like Spain, Germany, Italy or Brazil. Italy has now gone home. Brazil never won one single Euro (      ). Heck, look at the doldrums some of them have been in in recent years as well. For an example closer to home: It took France 25 years to rebuild from a WC 1958 3rd place, 14 years to rebuild from the 82-84 Platini era... another 20 to rebuild from the 98-00 Zidane golden era. Deschamps has now been the French coach for 12 years. In that time, He won one WC, finalist in another, and a Euro semi-final. He's only won one title, even with the wealth of players he had at his disposition. In 1.5x the time of Southgate so far, he only won one title. One. That's how scarce these are.

- Consider what he has (re)built so far in his spell with players like Saka, Foden, now Bellingham. Consider what he could teach to players like Mainoo, Palmer, Guehi, Gordon, Wharton... all for whom it is their first major tournament.

- Sometimes, it doesn't matter if the best Bundesliga scorer, the best Liga player, the Premier League player of the year are in your team. On the day, sometimes you just get kicked out (e.g. France V Switzerland in the last 16 of the last Euro). Sometimes, in one tournament, it doesn't gel. it doesn't mean you have to throw the baby away with the bath water. 
 
Just my 2 pennies. 

 

[Papy Oli]

A quiet "ehem" could be heard coming from Spain... 

Ahem... There are only 2 clubs in your league, and one of them isn't even Spanish...       

[Irons]

So you're a Seagull?

[Irons]

Sacrebleu, it shouldn't be my job but I'll have to put a good word in for Southgate.

- in the 20 years prior to Southgate, you could always hear about club "cliques" and rivalries within the English camp. That stopped with him and the rivalries stayed out at the door.

- All you could hear about prior to any tournaments in England pre-2016 was "are we going to have another heartbreak on penalties", cue videos on repeat of Batty, Southgate, Waddle and the likes, again and again.
Him of all people demystified this shoot-out malarkey and England finally won one. And when England lost one, that was in the final of the euro and yet he backed up his team, and knowing what Saka was going through and the despicable pile up on this player, he defended him to the hilt. I have not seen any such penalty heartbreak video onslaught this year, have you ? He finally taught everybody to move on a bit. He had, ages ago.

- He has been the coach for what, 8 years? In that time, he reached a WC 2018 Semi-final, a Euro 2020 Final. Basically the 2 best results of an England team since Euro 1996 and Italia 90. best run in 20+ years. He is one game away from reaching another major Semi-final.

- Have you had a media circus around him or the team, like you've had around Allardyce, Hodgson, Capello, Eriksson, MacLaren, Hoddle ? Nope.

- England has not played great at all or unexciting football... but then again, in this Euro, who has besides Germany, Spain, Georgia, and Austria maybe so far ? France has not scored in open play yet, we got someone else to do it for us. Yesterday was was the first game with some semblance of phases and attacking spells, against a Belgian team that parked the bus. France got the job done. Just like England did on Sunday.

- Not everybody becomes a footballing force overnight and reach some consistency like Spain, Germany, Italy or Brazil. Italy has now gone home. Brazil never won one single Euro (      ). Heck, look at the doldrums some of them have been in in recent years as well. For an example closer to home: It took France 25 years to rebuild from a WC 1958 3rd place, 14 years to rebuild from the 82-84 Platini era... another 20 to rebuild from the 98-00 Zidane golden era. Deschamps has now been the French coach for 12 years. In that time, He won one WC, finalist in another, and a Euro semi-final. He's only won one title, even with the wealth of players he had at his disposition. In 1.5x the time of Southgate so far, he only won one title. One. That's how scarce these are.

- Consider what he has (re)built so far in his spell with players like Saka, Foden, now Bellingham. Consider what he could teach to players like Mainoo, Palmer, Guehi, Gordon, Wharton... all for whom it is their first major tournament.

- Sometimes, it doesn't matter if the best Bundesliga scorer, the best Liga player, the Premier League player of the year are in your team. On the day, sometimes you just get kicked out (e.g. France V Switzerland in the last 16 of the last Euro). Sometimes, in one tournament, it doesn't gel. it doesn't mean you have to throw the baby away with the bath water. 
 
Just my 2 pennies. 

 

"Not everybody becomes a football force overnight" sacrebleu we invented the game! Tell that to Bobby, Geoff and Martin, did you know West Ham United won the World Cup in 1966? Southgate could not clean Sir Alf Ramsey's boots, or Terry Venables come to that. No prizes in football for coming second.

[Madiel]

Thoroughly approve of Olivier's thoughts.

I think half the problem is that England think they inherently ought to be "one of the big football nations" because they invented the game. Well sorry, but that was a hell of a long time ago. It's not that kind of history that wins things, it's investment in the last 15-20 years or so. And yes, the Premier League is big, but is it big because of English players? All those overseas stars that English clubs can afford to buy maybe do a little bit to help elevate the standard of local play, but only a little bit.

Southgate really has done quite well in the scheme of things in my opinion.

Also, stop phoning in your Eurovision entries and then declaring there's a conspiracy involved when you get no points. Investment.

[Papy Oli]

"Not everybody becomes a football force overnight" sacrebleu we invented the game! Tell that to Bobby, Geoff and Martin, did you know West Ham United won the World Cup in 1966? Southgate could not clean Sir Alf Ramsey's boots, or Terry Venables come to that. No prizes in football for coming second.

Ah that old 1966 chestnut... 

And yet, only one manager for England has given some kind of hopes to put these ghosts or demons of 1966 to bed and actually was at a game with the trophy sitting on its perch pitch-side for the team to see and maybe win. That was Southgate at the last Euros.

Credit where it is due: at least the English supporters and Press, for once, gave Southgate "some" time because everyone knew what a shambles the England set up was. That said, considering what he had to rebuild from scratch from and the change of mentality involved, 2 cycles of Euros/WC is really nothing.

I don't disagree that given the players at hand, Gareth should get more out of them but let's keep some perspective on what he has done for the national team.

By all means, they can always go back to flashy foreign coaches (that anyway "wouldn't know the English way"), they can all go crazy about healing someone's metatarsal by putting your hand on the front cover of a newspaper, talk about one coach's healers or another's Italian mistress...or, even better, let's focus on the WAGS and distract the team and everybody else...

Oh yes, the good old days... 

[Irons]

Ah that old 1966 chestnut... 

And yet, only one manager for England has given some kind of hopes to put these ghosts or demons of 1966 to bed and actually was at a game with the trophy sitting on its perch pitch-side for the team to see and maybe win. That was Southgate at the last Euros.

Credit where it is due: at least the English supporters and Press, for once, gave Southgate "some" time because everyone knew what a shambles the England set up was. That said, considering what he had to rebuild from scratch from and the change of mentality involved, 2 cycles of Euros/WC is really nothing.

I don't disagree that given the players at hand, Gareth should get more out of them but let's keep some perspective on what he has done for the national team.

By all means, they can always go back to flashy foreign coaches (that anyway "wouldn't know the English way"), they can all go crazy about healing someone's metatarsal by putting your hand on the front cover of a newspaper, talk about one coach's healers or another's Italian mistress...or, even better, let's focus on the WAGS and distract the team and everybody else...

Oh yes, the good old days... 

Are you watching the turgid football played by England, Olivier? It takes effort to stay awake! Not me saying this but an ex-player pundit said last week that the best players currently in Germany (Kane), Spain (Bellingham) and England (Foden) are in this England team. They are showing nothing like their club form so who is to blame if not Southgate.
He will be gone after this tournament. Replacement? Not a clue.

[Florestan]

After a fantastic quarter of an hour, Romania parked the bus after the Dutch goal and seems to have got back in the match during the last five minutes, including extra-time. I hope they'll repeat the second half with Belgium, when they played much better than in the first one.

[Madiel]

Turgid football is not confined to the English in this tournament, from what I've seen.