The football (soccer) thread

[Jo498]

tbh I think it is half unfair, half illusionary to make much of England losing that final. After the group phase very few would have bet on them getting near the semifinal!
 
They played a tournament in the way usually done by Germany & Italy, i.e. start rather poorly and by a combination of weak opponents, dumb luck (like the completely unfair penalty vs. Netherlands) and 2 good halves reach the final.
They got considerably better but were still quite lucky to get further than the quarter final. Within that frame they should not blame themselves for losing to the team that was clearly the best in the cup and had beaten the two teams that were probably the next best, France and Germany, in the earlier rounds.

[Irons]

tbh I think it is half unfair, half illusionary to make much of England losing that final. After the group phase very few would have bet on them getting near the semifinal!
 
They played a tournament in the way usually done by Germany & Italy, i.e. start rather poorly and by a combination of weak opponents, dumb luck (like the completely unfair penalty vs. Netherlands) and 2 good halves reach the final.
They got considerably better but were still quite lucky to get further than the quarter final. Within that frame they should not blame themselves for losing to the team that was clearly the best in the cup and had beaten the two teams that were probably the next best, France and Germany, in the earlier rounds.

Not so much losing the final, we lost to a better team and as you point out as did France and Germany. No shame there. The national frustration goes far deeper then that. Football in the UK is an obsession the one thing, possibly the only thing, we are good at and yet for 58 years at international level we have won bugger all! 'Football is not coming home' how many nations have tasted success in that 58 years? Leaving aside the big teams like Spain, Germany et al winning multiple times, smaller football nations have also got into the act, Greece and Denmark for example. The failure of the English side over such a long period is driving the fans nuts. That we keep getting so close makes it worse not better. 

[Madiel]

The whole "football is coming home" narrative seriously needs to end. Nobody else likes the sense of entitlement it conveys.

Football emigrated. Get over it.

[Irons]

The whole "football is coming home" narrative seriously needs to end. Nobody else likes the sense of entitlement it conveys.

Football emigrated. Get over it.

You don't get it. Believe me the term is laden with irony. The more it doesn't the more we will say it.

[Madiel]

You don't get it. Believe me the term is laden with irony. The more it doesn't the more we will say it.

And the more people from other countries will find it distasteful.

[Irons]

And the more people from other countries will find it distasteful.

Yes, I understand that. Used far too often by commentators and pundits. Guilty myself, but as I say in an ironic way. 

[DaveF]

Following a "small" football nation (Wales in my case) is so much easier - granted, things have been grim even by our standards recently, the poor show in the last World Cup, the recent failure to beat Gibraltar - but when we do well, like in the 2016 Euros, joy is unbounded. Even Scotland seems to be getting infected by unrealistic expectations - wasn't this going to be the first team to get out of the group stage?

[Jo498]

Not so much losing the final, we lost to a better team and as you point out as did France and Germany. No shame there. The national frustration goes far deeper then that. Football in the UK is an obsession the one thing, possibly the only thing, we are good at and yet for 58 years at international level we have won bugger all! 'Football is not coming home' how many nations have tasted success in that 58 years? Leaving aside the big teams like Spain, Germany et al winning multiple times, smaller football nations have also got into the act, Greece and Denmark for example. The failure of the English side over such a long period is driving the fans nuts. That we keep getting so close makes it worse not better. 

I understand this and there is probably criticism due to such continous (near) failures. (The "best least successful" team is the Netherlands: 3 lost World cup finals (all others with >1 lost final have at least one title) and only one Euro title (1988) but they are of course not the motherland of football.)

But considering realistic expectations before the tournament and the poor performances in the first 4 matches, England did extraordinarily well getting into the final at all.

[Roasted Swan]

I understand this and there is probably criticism due to such continous (near) failures. (The "best least successful" team is the Netherlands: 3 lost World cup finals (all others with >1 lost final have at least one title) and only one Euro title (1988) but they are of course not the motherland of football.)

But considering realistic expectations before the tournament and the poor performances in the first 4 matches, England did extraordinarily well getting into the final at all.

Gareth Southgate has just resigned.  Clearly a nice and decent man but not an elite football coach.  With the talent at his disposal (and the money!) the English team should do better.  But is there an innovative/brave manager to take over in his place - neither Potter or Howe are special in an international/global sense.

[Madiel]

Right, so the best England results in over 50 years and the response is "should've done better".

Again, the sense of entitlement. Southgate made you into regular contenders. Something you previously weren't.

[Roasted Swan]

Right, so the best England results in over 50 years and the response is "should've done better".

Again, the sense of entitlement. Southgate made you into regular contenders. Something you previously weren't.

Ha Ha!!  If in doubt try to stir the pot 

[Irons]

Right, so the best England results in over 50 years and the response is "should've done better".

Again, the sense of entitlement. Southgate made you into regular contenders. Something you previously weren't.

Coming second is best of the losers.

Interesting discussion on a sports radio station. Jurgen Klopp - if only and would he?

[Florestan]

Coming second is best of the losers.

Well, it might be probably better for the rest of Europe if England never qualified again for any final tournament. This way we'd never see again all this whining and hand-wringing. 

Seriously now, this all or nothing mentality is contrary to the sport spirit. Instead of being super-content that England made it to the final despite playing bad and ugly and unimaginative and as if on life support most of the time and with no little help of dumb luck, you lament their not winning the cup... They didn't win because they couldn't and didn't deserve it. End of story. 

[Madiel]

Ha Ha!!  If in doubt try to stir the pot 

Australia is not immune to the same problem. Though in different sports.

Nor is any country really. Or club.  Everybody has expectations of what results they ought to achieve. The glaring problem with England is: you have one trophy from the 1960s, and your expectation is set at matching that result. So Southgate achieving the best results in a couple of generations is seen as inadequate.

[Irons]

Well, it might be probably better for the rest of Europe if England never qualified again for any final tournament. This way we'd never see again all this whining and hand-wringing. 

Seriously now, this all or nothing mentality is contrary to the sport spirit. Instead of being super-content that England made it to the final despite playing bad and ugly and unimaginative and as if on life support most of the time and with no little help of dumb luck, you lament their not winning the cup... They didn't win because they couldn't and didn't deserve it. End of story. 

Oh, this is nothing! You should hear me going off about my club West Ham United.   That is something I really care about.

[Florestan]

Oh, this is nothing! You should hear me going off about my club West Ham United.   That is something I really care about.

 

[vandermolen]

Spain is the indisputable superpower of European football, a new and equally formidable Armada Invencible before which all other powers cannot but capitulate one by one.

The final was like, the best team vs the luckiest team. The best one won, outdoing the other in every conceivable respect.

Ah yes, but England provided some special moments (Bellingham's over-head kick, Palmer's goal v Spain, Ollie Watkins's last minute goal v the Netherlands). To some extent you make your own luck.

[Florestan]

England provided some special moments

True, but moments don't win the Euro Cup. Constantly excellent playing does.

[Roasted Swan]

Australia is not immune to the same problem. Though in different sports.

Nor is any country really. Or club.  Everybody has expectations of what results they ought to achieve. The glaring problem with England is: you have one trophy from the 1960s, and your expectation is set at matching that result. So Southgate achieving the best results in a couple of generations is seen as inadequate.

The points you make are all true and fair.  My comment tried - perhaps failed - to be an objective one.  Simply in the sense that by general (expert - not me!) consensus the current group of young English players are some of the most technically gifted and individually brilliant that we have produced for some decades.  Of course Gareth Southgate was part of the FA structure/management of youth teams structure that helped foster elite academies at club and regional level so it would make sense that we should see the benefit of that investment.  Add to that a great deal of National Lottery funding having been funnelled into grass roots sport AND the fact the The Premiere League is the richest in the World you would hope/imagine that this level of investment literal and practical should produce a national team capable of being the best in a tournament.  The fact that the English team is not able to make that last step is - I suspect - more a question of attitude rather than ability.  I have no doubt the players deperately want to win but there seems to be an edge missing that Latin American teams or Spain amongst others can tap into.

As it happens I did not watch the final - in all honesty I'm much more bothered if Liverpool win or lose than England!  I find the whole "football's coming home" cringe-worthy and oddly entitled in a way that as a footballing nation we have done nothing to merit/claim

[vandermolen]

True, but moments don't win the Euro Cup. Constantly excellent playing does.

I agree.