The football (soccer) thread

[Irons]

Bordeaux collapses with all player contracts terminated.

Sad news for the world of football and not least for our Papy Oli who I believe supports the club.
 

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Bordeaux collapses with all player contracts terminated.

Sad news for the world of football and not least for our Papy Oli who I believe supports the club.
 

Why did it "collapse"?

PD

[Papy Oli]

Bordeaux collapses with all player contracts terminated.

Sad news for the world of football and not least for our Papy Oli who I believe supports the club.
 

Heartbreak really but not a surprise after a decade of mismanagement or overspending. The buyer who saved the club from potential liquidation 2 years ago (after some American sharks milked the funds)  put 40M € in last summer to make it allegedly the healthiest club in Europe (his words at the time)...then went on and spent 36M € in wages alone in the 2nd division (about 5x a Division 2 average budget)..and generated a 40-50M € loss in that year alone while being miles away from a promotion back to to top tier. The ladies team went from champions league football last season to 2nd tier). The owner is refusing to foot the new bill.

As a result of the huge financial losses, the financial federal instances then relegated us to third division for now.

The owner then decided to scrap the whole professional status of the club, which means all the players contracts (men and women) and coaching staff, are void overnight and all free to go (no gains from transfers). He basically did that to completely cancel the huge wage bill for the lower third tier. The club's academy is also closing overnight (70 youngsters to go). The club is now in receivership, all existing debts are frozen and will be spread over ten years.

Now, it is a case for him to present to the tribunal a suitable new reduced budget for tier 3 that he is happy to cover for. The tribunal can decide a further relegation to tier 4 if not satisfactory, restarting with an amateur team anyway, to rebuild from scratch for the new season starting mid august (most likely). Worst case, He or the tribunal can also decide to fully liquidate the club. That would mean the death of it as we've known it since 1881 (initial foundation , professional since 1937).

Under receivership, the current owner can still stay for minimum 6 months until maybe a takeover buyer can be found (he's refused to go so far or sell it, he feeling not being compensated enough).

If liquidated, the club disappears and could maybe come back under a new guise and ideally new local owners...but that would be in a regional tier, so something like tier 9 or 10...

Needless to say that seeing the opening segment of the Olympics ceremony Friday night with Monsieur Zidane appearing, was like a dagger through the heart after this last week and the loss of our professional club.

I'll still love that club whatever tier it's in.

Bordeaux, partout et tout le temps.

[DaveF]

Why did it "collapse"?

PD

Money, no doubt.  I see the club has applied to join a non-professional league, with the eventual hope of regaining its former glories.  This is a big failure, no doubt, since Bordeaux was once one of France's top teams, with a host of great international names among former players.  So huge sympathy to all their fans, especially @Papy Oli - those of us who follow teams whose finances are not measured in £billions always have the fear of liquidation somewhere at the back of our minds.  So far in the English league it hasn't befallen anyone really big, although a number of smaller clubs have collapsed and been reformed playing in lower, non-professional leagues - Hereford, Bury, Macclesfield, Scarborough.  Even my own Coventry City were 3 hours away from extinction in 2007 before a buyer snapped us up at bargain price.  And the disappearance of a club tears a huge hole in the hearts of all true fans.  You can't just switch allegiance - although @Irons has the mighty Orient just down the road in case West Ham fall on hard times

[Florestan]

Bordeaux, partout et tout le temps.

Sic transit gloria mundi.

Whenever I hear someone lamenting the disappearance of this or that entity, I am tempted to reply: "Well, the Roman Empire disappeared too." 

[Madiel]

Yes, but for one of France's more successful clubs from one of France's larger cities, it's pretty terrible that it's come to this.

[Florestan]

Yes, but for one of France's more successful clubs from one of France's larger cities, it's pretty terrible that it's come to this.

That's true.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Money, no doubt.  I see the club has applied to join a non-professional league, with the eventual hope of regaining its former glories.  This is a big failure, no doubt, since Bordeaux was once one of France's top teams, with a host of great international names among former players.  So huge sympathy to all their fans, especially @Papy Oli - those of us who follow teams whose finances are not measured in £billions always have the fear of liquidation somewhere at the back of our minds.  So far in the English league it hasn't befallen anyone really big, although a number of smaller clubs have collapsed and been reformed playing in lower, non-professional leagues - Hereford, Bury, Macclesfield, Scarborough.  Even my own Coventry City were 3 hours away from extinction in 2007 before a buyer snapped us up at bargain price.  And the disappearance of a club tears a huge hole in the hearts of all true fans.  You can't just switch allegiance - although @Irons has the mighty Orient just down the road in case West Ham fall on hard times

So basically, when the owners decide that there isn't enough money coming in, they declare?/spread the word?/post a notice? that the club is for sale and to contact xyz if they are interested?

PD

[Irons]

So basically, when the owners decide that there isn't enough money coming in, they declare?/spread the word?/post a notice? that the club is for sale and to contact xyz if they are interested?

PD

Bad, irresponsible owners more like! I'm not familiar with the particular situation at Bordeaux but even without Papy Oli's analyse I could guess. The owners of my club are pretty despicable, with the main shareholder making his fortune in the porn industry but the devil you know.... I would not swap with what is going on at Chelsea at the present time with new very rich American owners backed by Saudi money.
Clubs on the Continent are more vulnerable as they do not have the income of the Premier League. Nothing ever stays the same however, wheels spin and tables turn, so Premier League clubs need to be watchful if the gravy train hits the buffers!       

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Bad, irresponsible owners more like!

I was just trying to understand the process.

PD

[JBS]

Bad, irresponsible owners more like! I'm not familiar with the particular situation at Bordeaux but even without Papy Oli's analyse I could guess. The owners of my club are pretty despicable, with the main shareholder making his fortune in the porn industry but the devil you know.... I would not swap with what is going on at Chelsea at the present time with new very rich American owners backed by Saudi money.
Clubs on the Continent are more vulnerable as they do not have the income of the Premier League. Nothing ever stays the same however, wheels spin and tables turn, so Premier League clubs need to be watchful if the gravy train hits the buffers!       

Do the owners/clubs do the American thing of trying to extort new stadiums* from the local municipalities?

*technically, try to force them to grant tax breaks, subsidies, special municipal bond issues, and otherwise finance new facilities the team could pay for on its own. The USA version relies on threats of the team packing up and moving to a city that will give them the money, which doesn't seem such a viable threat in the UK/Europe context.
Manchester United isn't about to become Salisbury United.

[Madiel]

The USA franchise system doesn't have much of a parallel in Europe. Although the Wimbledon club moved to Milton Keynes, this seems to have been considered pretty shocking.

But it's worth noting that move was largely driven by issues with stadiums. So it can happen.

[Irons]

Do the owners/clubs do the American thing of trying to extort new stadiums* from the local municipalities?

*technically, try to force them to grant tax breaks, subsidies, special municipal bond issues, and otherwise finance new facilities the team could pay for on its own. The USA version relies on threats of the team packing up and moving to a city that will give them the money, which doesn't seem such a viable threat in the UK/Europe context.
Manchester United isn't about to become Salisbury United.

I'm not familiar with the American model. However, some extortion has taken place with my club and it is the taxpayer footing the bill so parallels, maybe. West Ham's home was a 35,000 stadium in Newham east London. For the 2012 London Olympic games a brand new 62,000 built a stone's throw away at Stratford. With some common sense and foresight the organisers should have built the stadium to be future-proof, instead in his wisdom, Sebastian Coe insisted in a stadium built to be the home of British athletics. A completely unworkable decision as unstainable. Post Olympics, the mayor of London invited a bidding process for the stadium's future, Spurs came up with a proposal to pull the thing down and build a purpose built stadium in its place. West Ham sent in a Director of the club, Karren Brady to negotiate a deal. Brady is a hard nosed negotiator up against the mayor of London Sadiq Khan who didn't stand a chance, bless him. Brady chewed him up and spat him out with a 99 year lease at a paltry £4 million annual rent (the club's turnover is over £300 million). The stadium is now costing the British taxpayer millions every year and West Ham's home is not really suitable for football. With some forethought from the Olympic committee and the Mayor of London this mess could have been avoided and saved the British taxpayer billions.
I can see in the not too distant future the London Stadium being offered to West Ham United for one English pound which for the British taxpayer would be the best course of action by far.     

[Papy Oli]

The coming down from glorious "Home" Olympics back to the Bordeaux daily grind is like a freefall.

I left it as administratively relegated to Tier 3 with a voluntary loss of its professional status.

So far, all the teams are being dismembered. All the Mens' professional players have gone (bar one I think).

The owner still had to appear in front of one of the federal control administration to present an adequate plan and budget for that tier 3 level. That was last Monday. It failed. The club suffered a second administrative relegation to Tier 4. The club made one last appeal to an upper commission (funnily enough, the French Olympic Committee) who rejected the appeal and upheld the Tier 4 decision.

The owner still had one possible appeal to the Sports Arbitration Tribunal but decided not to proceed.

As of today, the Ladies team has been sold and saved by an English Consortium. it will resume in Tier 2 (relegation on the pitch last season) in its own name.

The Mens team is due to start its season in Tier 4... tonight. They got an approval for postponing the first 3 games of the season, because, as it stands, it is reported that we only have about 25 players on the books and most of them are under 15, remnants of the dismantled academy.

We have about 2 weeks to build a main team...and an under-19, an under-17 and an under-15 team...because it is a legal required structure to play in Tier 4.

While being in receivership with an updated 90M Euros debt frozen (allegedly even more than that) for the season.

In a massive stadium that the city council apparently gave us rent grace for the season (rent which we weren't paying anyway). We'd still have to cover the operational costs on match days.

We have a hated disgraced owner that doesn't show his face at the club and refuses to liquidate the club because he is owed approx. 40M Euros that he put in the kitty (while he and his mates milked the club meanwhile) and he wants to recover it.

Nobody will obviously want to buy this club in that state, any local takeover obviously will wait for a liquidation.

Maybe this will be the next and last downfall. The local tribunal can still decide to proceed with this if it deems that the club can't survive under receivership.

[Irons]

A sad situation, Olivier.

[Papy Oli]

Something to make @Irons chuckle and an update:

Bordeaux is now playing in the 4th division.

it went as is:

- Game 1 - postponed as agreed with FA

- Game 2 - postponed as agreed with FA

- Game 3 - Home game in a small local stadium behind closed doors (due to tensions between two supporters group scaring the prefect). We draw 1-1 thanks to a goal in injury time by... our goalkeeper on a corner kick (note: - We somehow managed to scramble a team of players from the discontinued academy, some free players of div.2 to 4.
 2 former players, aged 37 and 40 y.o. had to take a last minute license to make the numbers - 11+4 subs- to avoid the club to forfeit this game  )

- Game 4 - Away game in Brittany (20 minutes from where my parents live - my dad tried to get a ticket but it was sold out in an hour, all 2,500 of them). Bordeaux supporters were then banned from travelling the day before. On the day Game delayed 30 minutes due to heavy thunder. We lose 2-0 but we have a better structure and something resembling football (So far, the games are broadcast on YT by a Bordeaux local channel so I can watch them).

On the admin side:

- The Ladies team was sold a few weeks ago to a British consortium and thought to be saved. Turns out they didn't have the funds (a consortium created only 3 months prior. Dodgy ? I'll leave you to judge). Consequence: The Ladies team is removed from Div.2 and dismantled. A local Socios project is working on a takeover project to salvage it and bring them back in a Regional division. We can but hope. 

- Our dodgy owner was again in front of the tribunal last night. They have for now decided to continue with the receivership and allow the Mens team to continue playing. Next review January end. At least, no liquidation until then.

- our dodgy owner was all smiles and cockiness coming out the tribunal last, not wanting to leave the club and wanting to rebuild what he has basically destroyed himself.

- Now to show his incompetence: he had been negotiating with the Main Stadium's management company for the last few weeks to try and get the team to play back there asap (guaranteeing some gates income)....without wanting to pay any rent (which incidentally he hasn't done for 3 years anyway)... To which the management company and the Mayor agreed!!  as long as the owner pays the matchday charges (circa 40-50K Euros per game day). Which the owner refused to pay. Now for the incompetence bit: the owner and his dodgy accountants had forgotten that, thanks to the naming of the main stadium, they actually had a regular gameday cashback income...from the stadium's management company...roughly equivalent to those gameday charges anyway!! 

- Which now means we will play game 5 on Saturday at home back in our proper stadium with a crowd of probably 20-25,000 home supporters, in division 4 (where the crowd capacities is usually a tenth of that).

- The team rebuilding is also continuing with some new signings this week to beef up the team (mostly players at about 3-4K Euros a month salary - the club's budget under receivership is currently at 8 millions Euros, most of it players wages and admin salaries). A big budget for Div.4 but a tight one for us to function.

- Now, that owner sunk us in the last 2 years by basically going all in and taking some financial gambles at high cost, never working. Guess what was announced this morning ? We have signed former Premier League 35yo player, Andy Carroll (remember him @Irons   ?  ). He could be a good signing, maybe a great one but do we really think he'll be paid 3-4K Euros a month only like the other players. The mind boggles but that means that the tribunal signed it off so it must be budgeted.

One last fun fact. In the last month, the team was build up from scratch by a renowned successful lower-tier coach (incidentally a Bordeaux fan) and his assistant. The club also hired on a temporary basis a recruitment specialist (an English guy called John Williams) from an other club to assist with scouting and pre-selecting potential players for the coach. We borrowed that recruitment fella from Amiens SC (div.2).

now have a guess in which club Carroll was contracted with...

Dodgy you said...? Did Carroll genuinely want to leave Amiens, or is it a forced hand to offload him to Bordeaux and get him off the Amiens books ? We'll see.

Anyway, nice to see some Football at last . I'll be watching youtube on Saturday 

[Irons]

All is not lost if Bordeaux have a bedrock of 20,000. A fanbase of that size will have appeal to a prospective owner. Many clubs have struggled this side of the channel and with administration sunk through the leagues but most have managed to survive. Wrexham, thanks to a couple of Hollywood stars a prime example. None though have the history or more importantly the fanbase of Bordeaux. Lets face it can't get any worse for your club.

Andy Carroll! Cost West Ham a fortune!! Good bloke though and scored the second best goal I have seen live following the Irons for a lifetime.

 

[Papy Oli]

All is not lost if Bordeaux have a bedrock of 20,000. A fanbase of that size will have appeal to a prospective owner. Many clubs have struggled this side of the channel and with administration sunk through the leagues but most have managed to survive. Wrexham, thanks to a couple of Hollywood stars a prime example. None though have the history or more importantly the fanbase of Bordeaux. Lets face it can't get any worse for your club.

Andy Carroll! Cost West Ham a fortune!! Good bloke though and scored the second best goal I have seen live following the Irons for a lifetime.

 

True, only the Damocles sword of a liquidation for the next season or two.

In the meantime, it's just a relief to see "our" team play, in whatever form. The excitement is weirdly, still the same on YT in 4th tier. Been Supporting it since 82, not going to stop now 

[Papy Oli]

Re Carroll, I read similar reports from Amiens players, he seems to have a good reputation among his peers.

[Papy Oli]

All is not lost if Bordeaux have a bedrock of 20,000. A fanbase of that size will have appeal to a prospective owner. Many clubs have struggled this side of the channel and with administration sunk through the leagues but most have managed to survive. Wrexham, thanks to a couple of Hollywood stars a prime example. None though have the history or more importantly the fanbase of Bordeaux. Lets face it can't get any worse for your club.

Andy Carroll! Cost West Ham a fortune!! Good bloke though and scored the second best goal I have seen live following the Irons for a lifetime.
 

Bordeaux played in their own stadium last Saturday, with a max crowd gauge of 12,000. Nice to see a full kop back.

Went 2-0 down at HT after a dismal 45 minutes. Much better in the second half. Monsieur Carroll scored twice in the last  15 minutes to salvage a point. I think we already love him.

According to some local reports, he is on the fourth division pay level (3 to 4K euros) a month and playing for the sporting challenge of it all. He has been allegedly financially careful during his career and not been seeking paychecks like in Saudi. He just wants to have fun in his career end. Not sure how long that will go as his Family lives in London.

Still if he scores a brace at each game, we'll give him a statue 

(Only our third Englishman ever after Clive Allen and Josh Maja...who now scores for fun in the championship. Damn, he was so badly used in his days at our club).