Schoenberg's Sheen

[Mandryka]

From Triodes by HJ Prynne

Pandora wrote down her next sight
  of the ossuary in cryptic notation,
      scribbled on her pad; she knew
    the dockets flailed in a price sinkage.
Irene took notes at work; but they dropped
    right out of view, these low-level war figures
      in muzzy profile for a watching brief
  from day to day...

       *  *  *

Right on the nerve uh sweet sugar light! - we
    were accused by harsh desire,
  desire for goodness and protein bonds,
      for sex with our native tongue.
We applied, we tapped on round after round
  as cocking our elbows we saw them fall,
    hot blowing wind to mock weapon
      audit franchise, our amiable
    recoil scores for angry sore points.
At the loading ramps of free misery we both
      did cry out with ecstatic joy
  and not by mistake in gorgeous trip
      on the wheel of punishment -
we saw arch after arch pushing up in the colonnade,
  the cut-open pediments of classical exits
    a canter of promises not quite broken
  because made that way, mazy let-outs of style
    in designer drug options. We did
cry out, brandish our paltry money, did flaunt
      every asset we had.


Comment by Ming Tsao

I generally begin with a preexisting work – such as Schoenberg's Variations – as the
primary text for the composition. This text is then destabilized by reverse-transcribing
it through a rhythmic and metric grid that originates from a different source – such as
J. H. Prynne's poem "Triodes" – which structurally transforms the topology of
gestural materials from their shape of intent thereby placing pressure on the sounds
as they no longer are in harmony with their original expressive purposes. Throughout
this process, noise as a kind of virus is brought to the surface through an exaggeration
of instrumental actions already latent in the original Schoenberg (such as col legno
battuta, extreme bow pressure, overblowing and air sounds, multiphonics, etc.) that
is then blended with quotations from other musical sources as a way of weaving
together materials with radically different auras.



https://www.mingtsao.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Tsao_Materialist_Musical_Expression.pdf


Discuss.

[Cato]

A review of a new book about Schoenberg by an author named Harvey Sachs: Schoenberg, Why He Matters.

"...Mr. Sachs's "Schoenberg: Why He Matters" is a model of concision—a concentrated meditation instead of a panorama. It may be recommended for anybody with an interest in the work of the Viennese-American composer Arnold Schoenberg—and perhaps especially to those who have never quite been able to "crack" his music.

Mr. Sachs states at the outset that he is not trying to convince his readers that any vast new public awaits Schoenberg's work. To the contrary: "Now that atonality and the twelve-tone technique (and its offshoots) have been with us for a century we may safely say that they have proved to be dead ends for most listeners and for many—perhaps even most—professional performing musicians as well."

But this should not be taken as a dismissal. For a number of indisputable geniuses, the audience may not be large, but it is intelligent, passionate and devoted....

See:


Schoenberg: Why He Matters

[ritter]

A review of a new book about Schoenberg by an author named Harvey Sachs: Schoenberg, Why He Matters.

See:
Schoenberg: Why He Matters

I read Mr. Sach's Music in Fascist Italy last month, and am now tackling his monumental biography of Arturo Toscanini (the second one, from 2017), and they are both very weel written.

[Cato]

I read Mr. Sach's Music in Fascist Italy last month, and am now tackling his monumental biography of Arturo Toscanini (the second one, from 2017), and they are both very well written.

Yes, the book on Toscanini is mentioned as very worthwhile in the review.

Here is another review:

"...Sachs again succeeds in clarifying the composer's true intent, that despite his determination to forge his own difficult path, Schoenberg shared similar goals with his Romantic forebears: "[T]here can be no doubt that music's emotional content was of primary importance to Schoenberg!" Sachs says he believes that many musicians perceive atonal and other forms of post-tonal music as emotionally monochromatic. Ironically, Schoenberg himself did not like his music to be referred to as atonal..."

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/misunderstood-musical-genius-on-harvey-sachss-schoenberg-2/

[Lisztianwagner]

A review of a new book about Schoenberg by an author named Harvey Sachs: Schoenberg, Why He Matters.



See:


Schoenberg: Why He Matters

Yes, the book on Toscanini is mentioned as very worthwhile in the review.

Here is another review:





https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/misunderstood-musical-genius-on-harvey-sachss-schoenberg-2/

Thank you for sharing this, Cato, that seems definitely an intriguing read, the discussion and analysis it gives on Schönberg's music seem fascinating! I'm currently reading Schönberg's Style and Idea, but I wouldn't mind having a look at Sachs' book too.
I think it's also interesting that Sachs tries to discuss about the reasons why the atonal and the dodecaphonic works of his repertoire are perceived by listeners as such a tough nut to crack.

[brewski]

On 13 September, to open the new season and marking Schoenberg's 150th birthday, Alan Gilbert will conduct Gurrelieder with the NDR Elbphilharmonie Orchestra, livestreamed at the link below. (Time will be 2:00 p.m. EST, but obviously varies depending on your time zone.)

Soloists and choirs:

Simon O'Neill, tenor (Waldemar)
Christina Nilsson, soprano (Tove)
Jamie Barton, mezzo-soprano (wood pigeon)
Michael Nagy, baritone (farmer)
Michael Schade, tenor (fool)
Thomas Quasthoff (speaker)
MDR-Rundfunkchor
Rundfunkchor Berlin
NDR Vokalensemble (study: Klaas Stok)

-Bruce

[relm1]

On 13 September, to open the new season and marking Schoenberg's 150th birthday, Alan Gilbert will conduct Gurrelieder with the NDR Elbphilharmonie Orchestra, livestreamed at the link below. (Time will be 2:00 p.m. EST, but obviously varies depending on your time zone.)

Soloists and choirs:

Simon O'Neill, tenor (Waldemar)
Christina Nilsson, soprano (Tove)
Jamie Barton, mezzo-soprano (wood pigeon)
Michael Nagy, baritone (farmer)
Michael Schade, tenor (fool)
Thomas Quasthoff (speaker)
MDR-Rundfunkchor
Rundfunkchor Berlin
NDR Vokalensemble (study: Klaas Stok)

-Bruce

My local orchestra is playing it next year.  I really need to find the cash to get great seats for that one.  I don't remember ever seeing it even getting programmed locally before.

[Mandryka]

My local orchestra is playing it next year.  I really need to find the cash to get great seats for that one.  I don't remember ever seeing it even getting programmed locally before.

I've only seen it once and it was very enjoyable, from the middle onwards quite special. You need a good sprecher (the one I saw had Hans Hotter!)

[Cato]

I've only seen it once and it was very enjoyable, from the middle onwards quite special. You need a good sprecher (the one I saw had Hans Hotter!)

Five years ago we scheduled a long-desired vacation to England with a performance of the Gurrelieder by the Philharmonia Orchestra with Esa Pekka-Salonen conducting. 

The soloists were good, although the singer for Waldemar was no "seasoned Heldentenor." 

Everything else was excellent!  The performance had Barbara Sukowa as Die Sprecherin, who gave her usual town-crier interpretation.   

[kyjo]

A few months ago I listened to Arnie's Pelleas und Melisande for the first time, actually (the BPO/Karajan recording). The rather "murky" opening didn't really capture my attention, but after that I was intrigued by the contrasts between sensual lyrical episodes and really dramatic, almost disturbing climaxes. One can really feel tonality being stretched to its limits at times throughout the work!

[Cato]

A few months ago I listened to Arnie's Pelleas und Melisande for the first time, actually (the BPO/Karajan recording). The rather "murky" opening didn't really capture my attention, but after that I was intrigued by the contrasts between sensual lyrical episodes and really dramatic, almost disturbing climaxes. One can really feel tonality being stretched to its limits at times throughout the work!

That "murky opening" needs a conductor, who brings out the lines and makes it a snappy trip: it of course represents Golaud walking lost in the woods.

I suppose one could cut a few bars, but I think Herr Schoenberg would dislike that!

Yes, a marvelous and powerful work, much like Maeterlinck's play!

[DavidW]

What do people think of the Pittman-Jennings/Boulez Moses und Aron? I was thinking of listening to that recording whenever I'm done with Wagner.



Oh 4d audio... guess it includes smell!

[Cato]

My local orchestra is playing it next year.  I really need to find the cash to get great seats for that one.  I don't remember ever seeing it even getting programmed locally before.

Mrs. Cato and I heard it live 5 years ago in London with the Philharmonia Orchestra and Esa Pekka-Salonen!

The soloist for Waldemar was not the best, but it did not matter!  He was mediocre but did not detract from the marvelous experience of hearing it in person!

YES!  Save your pennies and hear it in person!!!

[Karl Henning]

What do people think of the Pittman-Jennings/Boulez Moses und Aron? I was thinking of listening to that recording whenever I'm done with Wagner.



Oh 4d audio... guess it includes smell!

Love it!

[Cato]

What do people think of the Pittman-Jennings/Boulez Moses und Aron? I was thinking of listening to that recording whenever I'm done with Wagner.



Oh 4d audio... guess it includes smell!

Yes!  An excellent performance, recording!

I have no idea what "4 D" sound means:  if it means 4 dimensions, then it maybe stops Time or something? 

If it is another variation on the old quadraphonic technology, why not just use "quadraphonic" or "Surround Sound" ?

[Mandryka]

In the 4th quartet, do you think there should be a significant tempo difference between the first movement and the comodo?

[DavidW]

Yes!  An excellent performance, recording!

I have no idea what "4 D" sound means:  if it means 4 dimensions, then it maybe stops Time or something? 

If it is another variation on the old quadraphonic technology, why not just use "quadraphonic" or "Surround Sound" ?

Oh it was a marketing gimmick of the 90s. People were obsessed with DDD recordings in which every stage was digital, and DG started advertising that they had 4D recordings: even more digital!

[Lisztianwagner]

What do people think of the Pittman-Jennings/Boulez Moses und Aron? I was thinking of listening to that recording whenever I'm done with Wagner.



Oh 4d audio... guess it includes smell!

Love it!

Yes!  An excellent performance, recording!

I share the enthusiasm for that recording, it's marvelous; besides, you can't go wrong with Boulez in Schönberg.

[Cato]

In the 4th quartet, do you think there should be a significant tempo difference between the first movement and the comodo?

Let me check my score later today!

I think the answer is "yes," but...it might depend on how you interpret "significant."

[Mandryka]

I think the answer is "yes," but...it might depend on how you interpret "significant."

I knew someone would say that! It's a lot of music at the same tempo if you don't hear the difference.

I'm really enjoying revisiting the last two quartets. How could anyone not love this music? It's full of gorgeous tunes and foot tapping rhythms.