The Most Important LvB Piano Sonata Cycle Comparison in the History of the World

[AnotherSpin]

Yeah, I guess you have to use the rankings to decide how much he values zen-ness, etc. Certainly I have been making notes to listen to things that didn't rank #1. (And I know I don't like Pienaar.)

Agree regarding Pienaar. His Beethoven cycle is at best grotesque, but most of the time it's just a joke.

[Brian]

I just listened to Minsoo Sohn's Waldstein. It feels like we're talking about different recordings. Well, I checked again, Qobuz says it's correct, Minsoo Sohn. My impressions are still the same as before: technically everything is fine, but it's empty inside. Shallow, no depth.

We used to have fairly frequent Blind Listening Games on the board where we'd judge recordings without knowing whose they were. Sacred names would fall, obscure artists would rise to the top. (Except in Bruckner, where everybody could recognize Klemperer and Celi.)

From those games, I learned that different people can listen to the same recording and hear wildly different things. Often several of us would have exact opposite ballots. There was a fellow named Neal who would call certain piano recordings some strange word - I think "plinky" - as an insult, and I could never tell what "plinky" meant. But he always deducted points when the piano was plinky.

[AnotherSpin]

We used to have fairly frequent Blind Listening Games on the board where we'd judge recordings without knowing whose they were. Sacred names would fall, obscure artists would rise to the top. (Except in Bruckner, where everybody could recognize Klemperer and Celi.)

From those games, I learned that different people can listen to the same recording and hear wildly different things. Often several of us would have exact opposite ballots. There was a fellow named Neal who would call certain piano recordings some strange word - I think "plinky" - as an insult, and I could never tell what "plinky" meant. But he always deducted points when the piano was plinky.

I always find it more satisfying when someone likes something that doesn't impress me. It gives me the chance to discover something new later on. But if I like something that no one else does, there's nowhere else to go...

Does it make sense?
"plinky in British English:
(ˈplɪŋkɪ ) adjectiveWord forms: plinkier, plinkiest. (of a sound) short, sharp, and metallic."

[Brian]

Maybe he did mean a sharp metallic recorded sound...it has been so long I don't remember examples. We need to do some more Blind Listening Games!

[Karl Henning]

different people can listen to the same recording and hear wildly different things.

QFT

[Mandryka]

We used to have fairly frequent Blind Listening Games on the board where we'd judge recordings without knowing whose they were. Sacred names would fall, obscure artists would rise to the top. (Except in Bruckner, where everybody could recognize Klemperer and Celi.)

From those games, I learned that different people can listen to the same recording and hear wildly different things. Often several of us would have exact opposite ballots. There was a fellow named Neal who would call certain piano recordings some strange word - I think "plinky" - as an insult, and I could never tell what "plinky" meant. But he always deducted points when the piano was plinky.

Not plinky, plonky. Not to be confused with plonker, plinky-plonk or plonk.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/plonky#:~:text=plonky%20(comparative%20plonkier%2C%20superlative%20plonkiest,Having%20an%20unappealing%20thudding%20sound.


https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/plonker#:~:text=slang)%20A%20penis.-,(British%2C%20Ireland%2C%20Australia%2C%20New%20Zealand%2C%20slang%2C,girlfriend%20and%20his%20male%20friends.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/plinky-plonky

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/plonk

[Iota]

That AI overview of performers in Op.31/1 posted above is absolutely hilarious. I can honestly say I don't think I've ever had as much fun reading about LVB. Peppered with memorably comic lines, but this little comment about Minsoo Sohn really tickled.

.. and the music in the second half is supported by charmingly cruel left hand playing.

Prompted by the thread I've been working through the sonatas chronologically in the Lucchesini recordings. Am up to the Op. 14's and am pretty flabbergasted by the colour and life he brings to them. I had heard some of the set before, but this more focussed listen is bringing a whole new level of joy and clarity to the experience.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I will have to listen to Minsoo's Waldstein and op. 54 forthwith. But just as AnotherSpin has issues with Todd's use of "zen" and "stream-of-consciousness," I have no idea what "shallow" or "empty inside" or"lack of depth" mean either. Or for that matter "strange," especially "a different kind of strange."

I like to think in terms of musical meanings and musical vocabulary. For instance, though I generally liked Minsoo's 2/1, I did not like that he did not bring out the low octave G that adds richness to the texture of the bass line in the codetta to the exposition. Or that he did not play the 2 eighth-note motif in the menuetto evenly, shortening the first note and making it almost like a Scotch snap.

Op. 54 is decidedly "strange," but it is that way regardless of performance, being a 2-movement work where the first movement is a minuet with a relentlessly pounding ff trio, and the second a perpetuum-mobile sonata form where there is very little melodic interest and where contrast and drama are minimized - rather different from Beethoven's usual treatment of sonata form.

And please, let's pronounce Waldstein correctly. It's not WALD-steen, but VAHLD-shtine. Take that, David Hurwitz.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I don't know what "charmingly cruel left hand playing" means either. If you want something cruel for the left hand in Beethoven, turn to the first movement of op. 90, where at times the player's mano sinistra is contorted into very difficult stretches similar to what one often encounters in Chopin (e.g., the D minor prelude).

[(poco) Sforzando]

Common or colloquial usage differs from strict usage from time to time.

Of course. My point was it was Spin who had issues, not me. Still don't know what "charmingly cruel left hand playing" means.

[(poco) Sforzando]

That AI overview of performers in Op.31/1 posted above is absolutely hilarious. I can honestly say I don't think I've ever had as much fun reading about LVB. Peppered with memorably comic lines, but this little comment about Minsoo Sohn really tickled.

Prompted by the thread I've been working through the sonatas chronologically in the Lucchesini recordings. Am up to the Op. 14's and am pretty flabbergasted by the colour and life he brings to them. I had heard some of the set before, but this more focussed listen is bringing a whole new level of joy and clarity to the experience.

I have been unable to locate CDs for Lucchesini's complete cycle. I only have a single of the Moonlight and Hammerklavier. But fortunately all his 32 can be listened to and downloaded here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blpSgjODwkQ&list=OLAK5uy_k4U2dQ10OsBJH2MabEKtqzBxV3V-D2t68

And so I am editing the WAVs to eliminate the applause, which I dislike, and will also burn my own set of CDs just as I did for Minsoo Sohn. So far I have also added the repeat to the finale of 10/2, because I wanted to.

I don't know if Russell Sherman's set is still around. But:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1ZwYhhpP19vh2yRy_mLMCA

[Todd]

Of course. My point was it was Spin who had issues, not me. Still don't know what "charmingly cruel left hand playing" means.

Me neither.  AI "wrote" that.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Agree regarding Pienaar. His Beethoven cycle is at best grotesque, but most of the time it's just a joke.

It just arrived in the mail today. Can't wait.

[AnotherSpin]

It just arrived in the mail today. Can't wait.

I hope you will be more, and better impressed than I was.

[Mandryka]

It just arrived in the mail today. Can't wait.

His Schubert has some extraordinary things in it. He's a case of a real musician who finds his own voice. I hardly know his Beethoven in fact.

[AnotherSpin]

His Schubert has some extraordinary things in it. He's a case of a real musician who finds his own voice. I hardly know his Beethoven in fact.

Some of Pienaar's recordings are very good, his Byrd's album was remarkable. As for his Beethoven cycle, the sonatas I've listened to (not all of them) mostly leave me puzzled. It seems that his desire to find his own voice leads to results that are too unexpected, if not outright controversial.

[AnotherSpin]

It seems that no one has written about their impressions of Mejoueva 's cycle yet? It would be interesting to compare. I haven't formed my own opinion yet. On the plus side, it's a recording of wonderful SQ. It feels very fresh, and it's easy and engaging to listen to. On the downside, there's a certain lightness to the interpretation, perhaps even superficiality. It flits about like a butterfly, but this is Beethoven, baby — where are the elephants and rhinoceroses?

[(poco) Sforzando]

Agree regarding Pienaar. His Beethoven cycle is at best grotesque, but most of the time it's just a joke.

Define "grotesque" and "joke."

And I also listened to Minsoo Sohn's Waldstein. There were some passages I didn't like, but I could not find anything shallow, lacking in depth, empty inside, or the like. Can you enlighten me?

[DavidW]

I've cleaned up the thread a bit. It is devolving into petty sniping. Please try to agree or disagree with someone's opinion and explain why instead of accusing them of using empty words or not understanding what they are writing. The way you are all going is unproductive and will likely lead to another heated argument and a locked thread.

We're discussing recordings of Beethoven's piano sonatas, not Peace in the Middle East. Being civil is not that hard. Please try.

[Todd]

The way you are all going is unproductive and will likely lead to another heated argument and a locked thread.

Locked, you say?