Missing Members

[Madiel]

Hang on, is there seriously a thread of swimsuit photos on here somewhere?

... why?!?

[prémont]

In that case ("you make it sound...") perhaps I misspoke or you misunderstood. PD was one of the very last women among active regulars - a fact that is already embarrassing enough - and she did not have to imagine how she would react to gendered insults or threads of swimsuit photos. When you tolerate or ignore a lot of very small slights, the psychic toll is that the big ones feel even bigger.

There are occasions when posts may come across as overly juvenile. However, if they are unpleasant I simply ignore them. I don't use my time in assessing their level of inappropriateness, and I think that it's the role of the moderators to moderate and delete such content if necessary. It isn't the responsibility of regular members to act as assistant moderators. And generally I find the level of the moderation in this forum suitably balanced.

[Madiel]

There are occasions when posts may come across as overly juvenile. However, if they are unpleasant I simply ignore them. I don't use my time in assessing their level of inappropriateness, and I think that it's the role of the moderators to moderate and delete such content if necessary. It isn't the responsibility of regular members to act as assistant moderators. And generally I find the level of the moderation in this forum suitably balanced.

We have a function allowing us to report posts. It's there precisely for the purpose of drawing things to the attention of moderators, rather than leaving them to do absolutely everything on their own. Whether or not you regard that as a "responsibility" of regular members, it's not wrong to use it from time to time.

[Mandryka]

I don't think this is especially commendable. Members should report offense they experience themselves on their own initiative. And you make it sound like PD emphasized being offended on behalf of others. But actually I suspected something like this a long time ago when one of my harmless pun posts was deleted by a moderator.

In the case in question it was clear to me that PD could be offended. I drew it to the attention of moderators in the hope that it would be removed before she saw it, but it was too late.

There was another poster who was also disturbed by the post and who challenged MI directly- his post was also removed.

[Henk]

There are occasions when posts may come across as overly juvenile. However, if they are unpleasant I simply ignore them. I don't use my time in assessing their level of inappropriateness, and I think that it's the role of the moderators to moderate and delete such content if necessary. It isn't the responsibility of regular members to act as assistant moderators. And generally I find the level of the moderation in this forum suitably balanced.

Maybe the mods can be more vigilant in making this community sympathic to female members. A female mod would be ideal.

[Brian]

Hang on, is there seriously a thread of swimsuit photos on here somewhere?

... why?!?

We shut that down as soon as it was reported.

[Madiel]

We shut that down as soon as it was reported.

Sure. I'm just trying to process that heterosexual men in this century haven't figured out this is not going to be okay.

I do notice some gendered stuff here. To be honest I walk by much of it, as it's neither for me nor about me. But if I turn my mind to it it's hard to deny that the forum has its moments that women would find unwelcoming.

[Florestan]

I don't remember when exactly (loooong time ago) but I do remember why.  He had got into the habit of making violently misogynistic remarks that were not just generally offensive but particularly upsetting to at least two respected female members owlice and uffeviking.  Some of us argued that nonetheless he might be shown leniency in view of his youth and inexperience - he was still a teenager - but the prevailing view saw his offence as too egregious.

Thanks. Other than the names, I don't remember anything at all. Must have been in the prehistory of GMG. 

[prémont]

We have a function allowing us to report posts. It's there precisely for the purpose of drawing things to the attention of moderators, rather than leaving them to do absolutely everything on their own. Whether or not you regard that as a "responsibility" of regular members, it's not wrong to use it from time to time.

If a member feels offended by another member in the shape of a personal attack it's of course good to have a function like that. However, the appropriateness of using such a function comes into question when a member feels offended on behalf of others.

[Madiel]

If a member feels offended by another member in the shape of a personal attack it's of course good to have a function like that. However, the appropriateness of using such a function comes into question when a member feels offended on behalf of others.

Well we've pretty much established that isn't what was meant. But if this line of argument is supposed to question whether it's appropriate for a male to report a post that's offensive to women... yes, it's appropriate.

[Karl Henning]

I'm currently reading an excellent book on Mendelssohn (see the reading thread) wherein there is an extensive quote from Schumann about Mendelssohn --- and one of its lines should be adopted as a maxim by all of us, not only here on GMG but generally. Said Schumann (quoted from memory:

If he had nothing good to say about someone or something, he said nothing.

How could Schumann quote my maternal grandmother?!

[Karl Henning]

I recently judged a pizza-making contest. After one of the pizzas, another judge said, "If I can't say something nice, I don't say anything." And then he passed the microphone 

(* chortle *)

[prémont]

In the case in question it was clear to me that PD could be offended. I drew it to the attention of moderators in the hope that it would be removed before she saw it, but it was too late.

I didn't see the post, but was it an attack ad hominem?

If I were attacked ad hominem I would report it to the moderators and they would take the appropriate action and I would never dream of deleting my account for that reason.

Of course if I was attacked regularly it could become unbearable for me to visit the forum, but I don't think that something like that applied to PD.

[Florestan]

I have to agree with Premont in that the report function should be used sparingly and only in cases of clearly identifiable ad hominem. Reporting each and every post one finds offensive on a general, not personal, level would result in unnecessarily burdening the mods and creating a climate of perpetual confusion and resentment because what might be offensive for some people might be innocuous to others.

[Le Buisson Ardent]

I think all of us here are guilty of saying hurtful things unknowingly (or perhaps knowingly, too), but the difference here is at least I apologized.

@Brian and @Karl Henning have both done some things to me that hurt and disappointed me, but did either of them apologize to me? Absolutely not.

There seems to be an air of it's okay for some members to say whatever the hell they want and they get a free pass, but the minute I make one rude comment, it's all hell breaks loose. Do any of you know how exhausting it is to feel like you're walking on eggshells?

Anyway, PD's leaving was her choice. She chose not to reach out to me (not that she is by any means required to do so) and didn't bother to make it known to me that she didn't like what I wrote to her. As I told @Henk, in a PM, the one part of her personality that I didn't like was the one acting like an online mother. So out of frustration, I made that post to her. It just felt like she was wagging her finger at me for making an off-handed joke to another member, which, let's face it, was incredibly mild and inoffensive.

Hopefully, she'll come back and all will be forgiven and we can get back to conversing about music.

[Florestan]

How could Schumann quote my maternal grandmother?!

Did she know Mendelssohn?! Wow, she must have lived a loooong life. 

(sorry if you feel my joke was inappropriate)

[Karl Henning]

Did she know Mendelssohn?! Wow, she must have lived a loooong life. 

(sorry if you feel my joke was inappropriate)

No apology needed.

[Mandryka]

I didn't see the post, but was it an attack ad hominem?

Yes.

[DavidW]

As a moderator, I can say that reporting posts is one of the best things a poster can do. Arguments tend to develop VERY QUICKLY and hurt both sides so fast. It is easy for us mods not to see something until it is too late. If we caught the Debussy thread early, for example, PD might still be here.

It seems that Premont is concerned that some posters might be abusing the feature, wanting the mods to be moral police for them. That is not only not the case, but usually, posters say nothing even if they are upset by the direction a thread has gone.

[hopefullytrusting]

I have to agree with Premont in that the report function should be used sparingly and only in cases of clearly identifiable ad hominem. Reporting each and every post one finds offensive on a general, not personal, level would result in unnecessarily burdening the mods and creating a climate of perpetual confusion and resentment because what might be offensive for some people might be innocuous to others.

What utter tripe.

The posts I've reported have been antisemitic, homophobic, racist, etc. I, of course, defer to the mod's judgement, but you are underestimating the shiftiness of what gets posted here.

Things are better than they were, but there is still a long way to go.