The Snowshoed Sibelius

[relm1]

Quite enjoying Hynnenen and Gothoni - anyone else special in these songs?

I love his songs.  Everything that makes his music special can be found in the songs too.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Quite enjoying Hynnenen and Gothoni - anyone else special in these songs?

Boy, I'm trying to recall whether or not I've heard any of Sibelius' songs for baritone?  I have enjoyed a couple of CDs that I have of Karita Mattila's that have songs by him.  I know that I've heard of your singer before, so will have to do some digging around upstairs.

Do you have any favorite songs/recordings Mandryka?

PD

[Mandryka]

Boy, I'm trying to recall whether or not I've heard any of Sibelius' songs for baritone?  I have enjoyed a couple of CDs that I have of Karita Mattila's that have songs by him.  I know that I've heard of your singer before, so will have to do some digging around upstairs.

Do you have any favorite songs/recordings Mandryka?

PD

How about this one

or this

[Pohjolas Daughter]

How about this one

or this

Thank you for your suggestions.  I'll check them out. 

PD

[Kalevala]

@vandermolen I'm trying to find where you had told me about a complete recording of Karelia on Chandos.  Which album is that on?

K

[vandermolen]

@vandermolen I'm trying to find where you had told me about a complete recording of Karelia on Chandos.  Which album is that on?

K

It's Ondine not Chandos K (I have to keep stopping myself from typing 'PD' !)
There's also a recording of the Complete Karelia music on BIS but I prefer the Ondine recording - you won't regret getting either recording (or in my case - both!) :-)

[Kalevala]

Thanks!  I'll see if I can find a way to listen to it.  Also, how do you find the original of Finlandia to be?

K

[Mandryka]

(I have to keep stopping myself from typing 'PD' !)

That's good news!

[vandermolen]

Thanks!  I'll see if I can find a way to listen to it.  Also, how do you find the original of Finlandia to be?

K

I think that I'm so familiar with 'Finlandia' that the original version made a nice change but I can't remember that much about it.

[Kalevala]

I think that I'm so familiar with 'Finlandia' that the original version made a nice change but I can't remember that much about it.

I remember listening to the original versions of his second symphony and also En Saga and sadly, being less than thrilled.   

K

[vandermolen]

I remember listening to the original versions of his second symphony and also En Saga and sadly, being less than thrilled.   

K

I like the original version of Sibelius's 5th Symphony (BIS CD). I can understand why he tightened up the structure with his revision but, as with 'A London Symphony' by Vaughan Williams, he jettisoned some intensely poetic sections.

[Kalevala]

I remember listening to the original versions of his second symphony and also En Saga and sadly, being less than thrilled. 

K

Whoopsie!  My bad:  I had meant to type his fifth symphony (not the second).  It was on BIS.

[Kalevala]

I like the original version of Sibelius's 5th Symphony (BIS CD). I can understand why he tightened up the structure with his revision but, as with 'A London Symphony' by Vaughan Williams, he jettisoned some intensely poetic sections.

We were typing at the same time...lol.  I might give his fifth another go, but there's so much other music to listen to and limited time (sadly).

K

[vandermolen]

We were typing at the same time...lol.  I might give his fifth another go, but there's so much other music to listen to and limited time (sadly).

K

I'd be interested to hear of views on the original Symphony No.5 CD.
I'm beginning to regret buying an 'Alexa' as my wife (and 'Alexa') are playing pop music next door while I am trying (unsuccessfully) to listen to Claudio Santoro's Symphony No.4 (Naxos CD). Oh dear! 

[Kalevala]

I'd be interested to hear of views on the original Symphony No.5 CD.
I'm beginning to regret buying an 'Alexa' as my wife (and 'Alexa') are playing pop music next door while I am trying (unsuccessfully) to listen to Claudio Santoro's Symphony No.4 (Naxos CD). Oh dear! 

You bought an 'Alexa' thinger-ma-jigger-critter (no idea of spelling!)!  I suspect that this was after your vacation experience?

Hmmm...establishing some playing/listening guidelines in order to keep the peace?  Out of curiosity, did she listen to much music pre-Alexa?  Or had you monopolized the only CD player?    Just teasing you a bit here Jeffrey.  And how does Alexa work?  Do you basically hook it up to the internet and then buy a set of speakers for it?

K

[vandermolen]

You bought an 'Alexa' thinger-ma-bogger-critter (no idea of spelling!)!  I suspect that this was after your vacation experience?

Hmmm...establishing some playing/listening guidelines in order to keep the peace?  Out of curiosity, did she listen to much music pre-Alexa?  Or had you monopolized the only CD player?    Just teasing you a bit here Jeffrey.  And how does Alexa work?  Do you basically hook it up to the internet and then buy a set of speakers for it?

K

Well K. You are quite right. My first experience of 'Alexa' was on our short break in Norfolk. It seemed quite fun then.  As you might be aware my wife and I don't share musical tastes (although she enjoyed a local Vaughan Williams concert that I took her to a while back). I think that headphones might be a solution for me. My wife set up 'Alexa' - it is quite straightforward if you have a mobile phone, You just connect the two devices and you are away. I am very polite to Alexa and always say things like 'Alexa - Good Morning' and she replies with interesting observations like 'Good Morning Jeffrey - today is speak like a pirate day...etc'

[Roasted Swan]

Well K. You are quite right. My first experience of 'Alexa' was on our short break in Norfolk. It seemed quite fun then.  As you might be aware my wife and I don't share musical tastes (although she enjoyed a local Vaughan Williams concert that I took her to a while back). I think that headphones might be a solution for me. My wife set up 'Alexa' - it is quite straightforward if you have a mobile phone, You just connect the two devices and you are away. I am very polite to Alexa and always say things like 'Alexa - Good Morning' and she relies with interesting observations like 'Good Morning Jeffrey - today is speak like a pirate day...etc'

Q:  Why Are Pirates Called Pirates?
A:  Because they aaaarrrrrrrr

[vandermolen]

Q:  Why Are Pirates Called Pirates?
A:  Because they aaaarrrrrrrr

Very good!

[Mandryka]

Just finished listening to the Mäkelä set today. His Sibelius is quite fiery and passionate, sometimes relying on interventionist twists for effect (very slight note value or tempo changes within phrases can create a startling difference, as in 1:I or 5:III). Accents are used to provide sharper attack on some notes, to excellent effect (mushy attacks are the bane of good Sibelius conducting). Big, noble utterances are slightly pulled on long note values, making them sound lusher but also extra yearning and impassioned. I'm not sure the music needs the help, but better this than a too clinical approach.

The sound is what makes the most difference overall: very detailed but also quite close, achieving maximum clarity and impact. No concert hall distance blending orchestral sections. It's all up front and close, but not oppressively so. Quite magnificent I'd say, the only inconvenient being that some passages lack mystery, which is a bit detrimental to the last 2 symphonies. The 6th acquires startling power and immediacy from the get go, the introduction of I losing its usual misty dawn atmosphere. The 7th is slightly beefy and unsubtle in the first section, although the trombones are heard with impressive weight and the double basses sound absolutely HUGE.

1: a real winner, one of the best performances I've heard, passionate and refulgent. Just under Stokowski (unmatched) and von Garaguly, on a par with Sargeant and ahead of the excellent Ormandy, Barbirolli, Davis Boston.

2: a very good conception, if slightly lacking in tension. Barbirolli RPO and Szell Cleveland (live) reign supreme here. Szell Concertgebouw, Monteux LSO, Ormandy Sony are a bit more impassioned than Mäkelä, but the sound is not as fine.

3: another winner. Mäkelä gives this underrated work the stature, drive and passionate advocacy it deserves. The first movement with its galloping string figurations (shades of the finale of Schubert's 9th) is taken with gusto by the Oslo Phil strings. Best ever: Rozhdestvensky's exhilarating, punchy interpretation, with tangy winds and viciously scurrying strings. Then Mäkelä.

4: the sound here serves the conductor's conception well. Mäkelä presents it almost as a concerto for orchestra, each movement sharply lit, double basses and low winds baleful and menacing. The glockenspiel otoh is hardly noticeable. Considering the kind of sound balance favoured by the conductor/sound engineers, I would think this is intentional. Excellent in its chosen way, but I prefer the über dramatic Ormandy (1954 mono), the gaunt, implacable Karajan Berlin (EMI) or Vänskä Lahti on BIS.

5: the 3rd winner in the set. Conducting, playing and sound fit the music perfectly here. The coda of I is jaw-dropping in its power, subtly helped by an unmarked accelerando - I normally don't like a fast coda here, but this is so well prepared it sounds totally organic. At that point I was air conducting like a dutch windmill. The last movement also builds up to a triumphant, implacable conclusion. Closure is of the essence here. Some conductors seem not to know what to do with the last crescendo and the closing chords. They sometimes sound like question marks. Here they properly sound like confidently nailed exclamation marks. Favourites: Rozhdestvensky (the baleful sections truly scary), Mäkelä, Ole Schmidt, Karajan Berlin (EMI), Sargent, Davis Boston.

6: this cinderella among Sibelius' symphonies is often made to sound sunny, gentle, affectionate and playful (Karajan DG is perfect in that respect). Not so here. Like Rozhdestvensky, Mäkelä highlights the many undercurrents of doubt, unquiet and restlessness that traverse the work. It's like exploring a dark cave gleaming with myriad colours and shadows under a torch. This is an unsentimental, powerful account of the symphony, with a few surprisingly potent orchestral outbursts. The 6th is an elusive work, its character and qualities harder to discern than the other symphonies. Mäkelä tackles it head on and surprises me with its forthrightness and objectivity. For this symphony I have no clear favourite, but Karajan DG, Davis Boston, Rozhdestvensky, Mäkelä and Vänskä Lahti all impress in their chosen way.

7: possibly my favourite among the Sibelius symphonies. That one, too, is elusive and presents a constantly shifting perspective. Although in a single movement, it is clearly divided in sections. The banding on this Decca disc is in 4 tracks. Once again Mäkelä puts forth big-boned, frankly lit orchestral textures, with clear distinction between sections. The strings are strong, producing a full, deep, almost saturated sound (the very first phrase). Trombones are menacing, bright on top and deep at the bottom. The Valse triste quotation at the end is almost sinister, not wistful at all. Sometimes I had the impression I was listening to The Firebird. A very interesting interpretation. The conductor clearly thinks highly of the work, declaring in the notes it's 'the most perfect' of the lot. Here, too, no clear favourite emerges, but the 1965 Munch BSO is mandatory listening (easily found on Youtube). Uncharacteristically for this conductor the timing is on the slow side (24 mins to Mäkelä's 23 or Szell's 19), but sounds like molten lava sweeping all before it.

EDIT: Tapiola is also in this set. I've listened to it twice and am not sure what to think of the interpretation. I don't have as many points of comparison either. In this recording the big moments are very big indeed, with a frightening storm sequence and a menacing coda where the orchestra sounds like they have 40 double basses and 25 bassoons on hand - it almost sounds like they imported an organ to underpin the rest of the orchestra.

Thanks for this. And in particular thanks for mentioning Munch in 7 - your comment prompted me to listen to his extraordinary, passionate performance. Impossible to listen to anything after it, it's such a powerful experience.

[Mandryka]

Well K. You are quite right. My first experience of 'Alexa' was on our short break in Norfolk. It seemed quite fun then.  As you might be aware my wife and I don't share musical tastes (although she enjoyed a local Vaughan Williams concert that I took her to a while back). I think that headphones might be a solution for me. My wife set up 'Alexa' - it is quite straightforward if you have a mobile phone, You just connect the two devices and you are away. I am very polite to Alexa and always say things like 'Alexa - Good Morning' and she replies with interesting observations like 'Good Morning Jeffrey - today is speak like a pirate day...etc'

Ask her if she'll marry you. You'll be amused by the reply.