The Worst First!

[Florestan]

Almost everything: it's pretty predictable, insipid, bland (where have I seen that word before?), flaccid, with poor melodic material. It's like an anemic imitation of Dvorak. FWIW, its first movement sounded a bit more spirited, but that's about it.

Previously I had thought of the symphonies by d'Indy and Alfvén like the worst firsts I've heard, but they're much more accomplished and focused.

Interesting that other people have mentioned the ones by Dvorak and Khachaturian like the worst first. They're not IMO, they're screaming masterpieces compared to the Foerster.

Of many, many symphonies I've heard and revisited over the years, the Foerster is a fair candidate to be the worst first I've ever listened to.

Thanks for your detailed description. I haven't heard them and after reading your post I certainly have no intention to hear them.

Just one observation, though: pretty predictable, insipid, bland, flaccid, with poor melodic material --- this can apply to any number of symphonies, not only firsts, by any number of composers. 

[Symphonic Addict]

The Dvořák First is his weakest, to be sure, but there is plenty of interest in it.

That is quite fair. I always get enjoyment from it whenever I revisit it.

[Symphonic Addict]

Thanks for your detailed description. I haven't heard them and after reading your post I certainly have no intention to hear them.

Just one observation, though: pretty predictable, insipid, bland, flaccid, with poor melodic material --- this can apply to any number of symphonies, not only firsts, by any number of composers. 

It's important to clarify that Foerster wasn't a mediocre composer. He wrote some very good chamber music (e.g. string quartets and piano trios) and other orchestral works like Cyrano de Bergerac Suite and Shakespeare Suite. Symphonies weren't his thing it seems.

As for the second idea, yes, of course, but in this case we're talking about first symphonies.

[DavidW]

I just had to look at the beginning of the thread. Oh, it was awful. Karl immediately said Elgar's 1st which is ONE OF THE FINEST FIRST SYMPHONIES EVER WRITTEN. I can't believe how bad his taste is.

I go with Stravinsky's Symphony in E-flat, Op 1. It has nothing to do with his mature works in any phase at all. I wouldn't be surprised if you even forgot it existed.

Another contender is Bruckner's Symphony 00 which has been recorded many times... but it is just not what we typically associate with Bruckner.

Finally, I'm not that fond of Arnold's 1st.

[JBS]

I just had to look at the beginning of the thread. Oh, it was awful. Karl immediately said Elgar's 1st which is ONE OF THE FINEST FIRST SYMPHONIES EVER WRITTEN. I can't believe how bad his taste is.

I go with Stravinsky's Symphony in E-flat, Op 1. It has nothing to do with his mature works in any phase at all. I wouldn't be surprised if you even forgot it existed.

Another contender is Bruckner's Symphony 00 which has been recorded many times... but it is just not what we typically associate with Bruckner.

Finally, I'm not that fond of Arnold's 1st.

The "Study Symphony" isn't a bad symphony. I rather like it: in fact I think it (and the "Nullte") are better than the symphonies that are officially the First and Second.

Of course I'm not that keen on Bruckner, so perhaps the fact that they aren't the sort of music we typically associate with Bruckner is a good thing.

My candidate for worst First is Beethoven's: perhaps not the worst but definitely the least interesting of his symphonies.
The only recording I've ever heard that made me interested in the First was Trevino.

[Karl Henning]

I just had to look at the beginning of the thread. Oh, it was awful. Karl immediately said Elgar's 1st which is ONE OF THE FINEST FIRST SYMPHONIES EVER WRITTEN. I can't believe how bad his taste is.

I go with Stravinsky's Symphony in E-flat, Op 1. It has nothing to do with his mature works in any phase at all. I wouldn't be surprised if you even forgot it existed.

Another contender is Bruckner's Symphony 00 which has been recorded many times... but it is just not what we typically associate with Bruckner.

Finally, I'm not that fond of Arnold's 1st.

Gosh, that was a borderline idiotic thing for Karl to have said. What was the date?....

[Symphonic Addict]

I just had to look at the beginning of the thread. Oh, it was awful. Karl immediately said Elgar's 1st which is ONE OF THE FINEST FIRST SYMPHONIES EVER WRITTEN. I can't believe how bad his taste is.

It left me surprised as well. I am sure that everybody has ever had this sort of opinions and then realizes how tastes can evolve with such a dramatic change.

[NumberSix]

Good gracious, the drama in the early days of this thread!   

[Brian]

Yes, that first page of the thread was concerted, deliberate trolling of a member who liked Elgar...a good reminder that drama on the Internet is not a new phenomenon!

[Karl Henning]

Yes, that first page of the thread was concerted, deliberate trolling of a member who liked Elgar...a good reminder that drama on the Internet is not a new phenomenon!

I am rightly chided.

[NumberSix]

I am rightly chided.

Fortunately, you are not that person. His name was Robert Paulson karlhenning. You are Karl Henning. Totally different.

[NumberSix]

Yes, that first page of the thread was concerted, deliberate trolling of a member who liked Elgar...a good reminder that drama on the Internet is not a new phenomenon!

I was trying to remember what I was doing online in 2007. I had discovered and become instantly obsessed with pro rasslin in 2006 (after a lifetime of being "too good" for it). 2007-10 were my prime Internet Wrestling Community years.

Such much good times. And yes, lots and lots of drama.

[steve ridgway]

Stockhausen should consider himself lucky to have never composed any symphonies .

[DavidW]

Gosh, that was a borderline idiotic thing for Karl to have said. What was the date?....

Well, not even the same Karl! By now every atom and molecule in your body has been replaced.

[Karl Henning]

I go with Stravinsky's Symphony in E-flat, Op 1. It has nothing to do with his mature works in any phase at all. I wouldn't be surprised if you even forgot it existed.

A good nominee. It's basically a curio for compleatists. Unlike so much Stravinsky (and undergirding your point) I cannot recall a note of it.

[Karl Henning]

Elgar

Oh, this was undeniably me. I trust @71 dB has since forgiven me.

Well, not even the same Karl! By now every atom and molecule in your body has been replaced.

Truly.

[DaveF]

I can't see anywhere in the previous 20 pages a mention of Britten's Simple Symphony.  Strong candidate, surely - not bad as such but like a typical poem by Betjeman - soppy and twee.  (Admittedly, it does use material written at the age of 10.)

[71 dB]

Are you people trying to shatter my nostalgic delusions about the World being better in the past by reminding me about the dark things that happened on GMG in 2007?   

[Brian]

Are you people trying to shatter my nostalgic delusions about the World being better in the past by reminding me about the dark things that happened on GMG in 2007?   

I can't see anywhere in the previous 20 pages a mention of Britten's Simple Symphony.  Strong candidate, surely - not bad as such but like a typical poem by Betjeman - soppy and twee.  (Admittedly, it does use material written at the age of 10.)

Aw, but I like it so much! It knows its own strengths and weaknesses, and it never tries to be something it's not.

[Karl Henning]

Are you people trying to shatter my nostalgic delusions about the World being better in the past by reminding me about the dark things that happened on GMG in 2007?   

I'm hoping this is a redemption arc  😇