What are you listening 2 now?

[Karl Henning]

I don't understand.

Don't his covers normally sport Paavo's Big Mug?

[Iota]

I don't know how to define loud. It was not piano. Listening to Buniatishvili's recording I would have assumed the opening was marked pianissimo (pp) or at least piano (p). If you can find a way to listen to Arrau I think you would find it worthwhile (I was listening to a digital Philips recording, I'm not sure if he recorded the piece more than once for Philips).

Fwiw I had a listen to the Arrau Liebestraum no.3 on the disc below (which I guess is the same?) and it's another beauty for sure, and the opening definitely fits dolce cantando to my ears. There's indeed a very marked contrast in their interpretations, Arrau feels to me more like someone reminiscing about a love affair, whereas Buniatishvili sounds like someone smack bang in the middle of one, the sudden surges into ff being the throwing open of the window to let the full storm of their feelings blow in and overwhelm them. It's that impulsive feeling I love about her recording, the greater extremes of dynamic fitting naturally into it, the quietness of the opening evoking a literal dream-like quality (which of course it isn't necessarily).



@Florestan re your post #123329
Mood/tempo indications have never been precise (outside of metronome markings) and dolce cantando means what any given performer takes it to mean in that context. It can affect dynamics and a whole other range of other things, it's all about how you feel the term used connects with the piece under consideration, as I'm sure you know.

[DavidW]

Don't his covers normally sport Paavo's Big Mug?

Well recent listens for me:

[hopefullytrusting]

Currently making my way through this set:

[Florestan]

Mood/tempo indications have never been precise (outside of metronome markings) and dolce cantando means what any given performer takes it to mean in that context. It can affect dynamics and a whole other range of other things, it's all about how you feel the term used connects with the piece under consideration, as I'm sure you know.

Absolutely, and I am the last person in the world to deny the performer their freedom of interpretation. Actually, I am of the opinion that a score is simply a recipe for performance and what we call music is actually and essentially defined by the latter, not by the former.

That being said, I was induced to look in the score by @Spotted Horses 's remark that

Leaving aside the customary interpretation as a musical direction (of which I am ignorant) dolce cantando means sweetly singing, and I can't fault Arrau for failing to observe the direction.

I inferred from it that dolce cantando is somehow wrong in the context and that failing to observe it, ie playing not-dolce and not-cantando, is okay --- which goes contrary to both performance practice and my own experience. I might have been wrong, in which case I apologize, especially as I've listened to neither Arrau's nor Buniatishvili's versions.

[Spotted Horses]

I inferred from it that dolce cantando is somehow wrong in the context and that failing to observe it, ie playing not-dolce and not-cantando, is okay --- which goes contrary to both performance practice and my own experience. I might have been wrong, in which case I apologize, especially as I've listened to neither Arrau's nor Buniatishvili's versions.

My choice of words was poor, I should have said "I couldn't accuse Arrau of failing to follow the direction." He most definitely respected it, but my point was only that dolce cantando doesn't mean quiet (piano).

Fwiw I had a listen to the Arrau Liebestraum no.3 on the disc below (which I guess is the same?) and it's another beauty for sure, and the opening definitely fits dolce cantando to my ears. There's indeed a very marked contrast in their interpretations, Arrau feels to me more like someone reminiscing about a love affair, whereas Buniatishvili sounds like someone smack bang in the middle of one, the sudden surges into ff being the throwing open of the window to let the full storm of their feelings blow in and overwhelm them. It's that impulsive feeling I love about her recording, the greater extremes of dynamic fitting naturally into it, the quietness of the opening evoking a literal dream-like quality (which of course it isn't necessarily).

I have to admit I only listened to the very beginning of Arrau to confirm that the standard interpretation of the piece does not involve such a quiet opening. I listened to Arrau's recording carefully today and enjoyed it, but also felt that his aristocratic expressiveness leaves something in the piece unexpressed. Buniatishvili is certainly thrilling, but I just don't hear all of the intricacies of the opening (and closing) section.

In the fog of my memory, I think Bolet (Decca) is closest to what I think the piece should sound like.

[Spotted Horses]

Szymanowski, Symphony No 2, Gardner, BBC Philharmonic



After listening to the 4th symphony I wasn't expecting it. Very much channeling Richard Strauss (according to my ear, and the recording notes). Enjoyed, but this work (of a 27 year old Szymanowski) seems a bit derivative.

[Karl Henning]

My choice of words was poor, I should have said "I couldn't accuse Arrau of failing to follow the direction." He most definitely respected it, but my point was only that dolce cantando doesn't mean quiet (piano).

I have to admit I only listened to the very beginning of Arrau to confirm that the standard interpretation of the piece does not involve such a quiet opening. I listened to Arrau's recording carefully today and enjoyed it, but also felt that his aristocratic expressiveness leaves something in the piece unexpressed. Buniatishvili is certainly thrilling, but I just don't hear all of the intricacies of the opening (and closing) section.

In the fog of my memory, I think Bolet (Decca) is closest to what I think the piece should sound like.

I should revisit the Bolet, a recording "Metal Dave" sent me long ago.

[Lisztianwagner]

Luigi Dallapiccola
Tartiniana
Due Pezzi
Piccola musica notturna

James Ehnes (violin)
Gianandrea Noseda & BBC Philharmonic

[Karl Henning]

Luigi Dallapiccola
Tartiniana
Due Pezzi
Piccola musica notturna

James Ehnes (violin)
Gianandrea Noseda & BBC Philharmonic

Love this!

[Karl Henning]

I should revisit the Bolet, a recording "Metal Dave" sent me long ago.

Listening now. Lisztening?

[pianococo90]

Brian Ferneyhough
String Quartet No. 2

[hopefullytrusting]

Currently making my way through this set:

What an absolute delight of a recording - HiP Brahms. Immaculately recorded, maybe some of the best command and deployment of orchestral forces. I never felt it lacking, and all the lines were so clean. I'm definitely now a fan of this conductor.

[brewski]

Haydn: Symphony No. 68 (Harnoncourt / Concertgebouw).

Because a little Haydn now and then is the key to happiness.

[North Star]

Those are wonderful quartets though I haven't heard the Panocha play them.  My two favorites (and wonder if you know them) are with the [recent] Talich and also the Paval Haas quartets.

K

They are wonderful works indeed! I know the Pavel Haas Quartet's versions too, although it has been ages since I've heard it but I think I appreciated it very much. I believe I've heard the Talich but have no recollection of it at all.

Always tasty!

Hear, hear!


Thread duty


Elgar
Cello Concerto Op. 85

Dvořák
Rondo Op. 94
Klid (Silent Woods) Op. 68/5

Tchaikovsky
Variations on a Rococo Theme Op. 33
Jean-Guihen Queyras
BBC Symphony
Jiří Bělohlávek

[Traverso]

Bach

[Florestan]

My choice of words was poor, I should have said "I couldn't accuse Arrau of failing to follow the direction." He most definitely respected it, but my point was only that dolce cantando doesn't mean quiet (piano).

Fair enough --- and agreed.

I have to admit I only listened to the very beginning of Arrau to confirm that the standard interpretation of the piece does not involve such a quiet opening. I listened to Arrau's recording carefully today and enjoyed it, but also felt that his aristocratic expressiveness leaves something in the piece unexpressed. Buniatishvili is certainly thrilling, but I just don't hear all of the intricacies of the opening (and closing) section.

In the fog of my memory, I think Bolet (Decca) is closest to what I think the piece should sound like.

I have heard neither Arrau nor Buniatishvili nor Bolet (but I have them all and I will certainly listen to their interpretation carefully asap) but I am in full agreement with what I think is the gist of your post, namely that each and every version of a given piece (I intentionally avoid the term "work") is just an approximation of the "music" in question, and that each and every listener has a closest-to-the-real-thing performance that most accords with their taste. There is no Liebestraum No. 3 in itself, a disembodied, transcendental thing-in-itself independent of any mundane presentation --- on the contrary, there as many of them as performers and listeners.

What I mean is that, just as in historical practice operas were advertised as, eg, "Artaserse, drama by Metastasio set in music by Johann Adolph Hasse", so a CD should be advertised, and labeled, as eg "Liebestraum No. 3, music by Liszt performed by Claudio Arrau" --- thus making it explicit that what one will hear is a collaborative effort, albeit often an anachronistic one. All this be said pace Ravel and Stravinsky, what with their unrealistic and wishful-thinking theory of "a mere execution of a sequence of instructions".

[Spotted Horses]

I should revisit the Bolet, a recording "Metal Dave" sent me long ago.

Another tidbit of information is that Bolet uses a Baldwin piano, which to my ear has a more bell-like sonority than a modern Steinway.

[Iota]

My choice of words was poor, I should have said "I couldn't accuse Arrau of failing to follow the direction." He most definitely respected it, but my point was only that dolce cantando doesn't mean quiet (piano).

I have to admit I only listened to the very beginning of Arrau to confirm that the standard interpretation of the piece does not involve such a quiet opening. I listened to Arrau's recording carefully today and enjoyed it, but also felt that his aristocratic expressiveness leaves something in the piece unexpressed. Buniatishvili is certainly thrilling, but I just don't hear all of the intricacies of the opening (and closing) section.

In the fog of my memory, I think Bolet (Decca) is closest to what I think the piece should sound like.

I really like Bolet in Liszt. I first got to know the B minor Sonata with him on an old Everest LP.

Here:



Ravel: Le Tombeau de Couperin
Seong-Jin Cho (piano)

Ravel and Debussy have this power to cast such a potent spell on me and it only seems to get stronger with time. Administering the power of the magic wand on this occasion is Seong-Jin Cho, with absolutely scintillating and gorgeous playing.

[Linz]

Bruckner Symphony No. 7 in E Major, 1885 Version with some Modifications by Bruckner. Ed. Albert Gutmann, Berliner Philharmoniker, Carl Schuricht