Johannes Brahms (1833-1897)

[Jo498]

I don't like the viola sonatas much either but it's right and proper to prefer the original versions, esp. for #2.

I don't dislike any Brahms chamber work but there are few I am somewhat lukewarm about. E.g. the 2nd cello sonata. Or the horn trio that some people seem to love more than anything else. Or the 3rd string quartet that is my least favorite of the 3 (while it seems to be the favorite of many others) although I seem to like the string quartets overall more than many other people as they seem to be singled out for being awkward or difficult. I am probably also in a minority in preferring the 1st string quintet vs. the 2nd.

I also disagree that the clarinet trio is a step down. It's an austere work, one of my books calls it "ascetic" whereas even the terse c minor trio is still "full blooded" romanticism. But I also prefer the clarinet quintet, I also think that the tone colors mix better than with piano.

[ChamberNut]

The only chamber music piece I've ever been lukewarm on has been his Piano Quartet No. 2, Op. 26.

However, I've warmed up to it more in recent years.

The rest I loved unreservedly.

[San Antone]

I have a love/don't get it (yet?) relationship with Brahms' chamber music.

Works I love:

- violin sonatas 1 and 3
- the 2 clarinet sonatas, but esp. no 1
- the cello sonatas
- the horn trio
- the op 25 and 26 piano quartets
- the piano quintet op 34 (and its 2-piano incarnation)
- the sextet op 18

Works I don't get (yet)
- all the string quartets
- all the string quintets

Works I like (really) but don't quite love:
- the viola sonatas (I prefer them in the original clarinet instrumentation)
- violin sonata no 2
- the piano trios
- piano quartet no 3
- the clarinet trio and quintet
- the sextet op 36

The clarinet quintet? Or did I overlook it in your post?

There is no chamber work of Brahms which I do not enjoy wholeheartedly.  It's his orchestral stuff which goes over my head. 

[Jo498]

The only chamber music piece I've ever been lukewarm on has been his Piano Quartet No. 2, Op. 26.

It's a bit too long although not nearly as sprawling as the original version of the B major trio op.8. And the last movement while good is not quite as exhilarating as the one of the g minor, so it's not surprising that most clearly prefer that one.

[ChamberNut]

I also don't see in @André list the op. 60 Piano Quartet, my favourite Brahms chamber work.

[Der lächelnde Schatten]

I have a love/don't get it (yet?) relationship with Brahms' chamber music.

Works I love:

- violin sonatas 1 and 3
- the 2 clarinet sonatas, but esp. no 1
- the cello sonatas
- the horn trio
- the op 25 and 26 piano quartets
- the piano quintet op 34 (and its 2-piano incarnation)
- the sextet op 18

Works I don't get (yet)
- all the string quartets
- all the string quintets

Works I like (really) but don't quite love:
- the viola sonatas (I prefer them in the original clarinet instrumentation)
- violin sonata no 2
- the piano trios
- piano quartet no 3
- the clarinet trio and quintet
- the sextet op 36

I love every single one of those works. I'm trying not to reveal my Brahms bias, but there you have it.

[Mapman]

I don't like the viola sonatas much either but it's right and proper to prefer the original versions, esp. for #2.

My saxophone teacher taught me the words that go with the first line of #2: "Brahms' sonata in E-flat sounds better on the clarinet"

[Mandryka]

I just listened to an oldie clarinet trio with Casals at Prades -really charming. If this is asceticism @Jo498 I want more of it!

@Herman I see Atos's first commercial recording included the C major trio. Who's Simrock?

[Jo498]

Too much vibrato on the clarinet for me, can't stand that, sorry.
Ascetic came from a chamber music guide book, I find this also exaggerated but "austere" compared to e.g. the clarinet quintet or 2nd sonata seems not inappropriate.
 
The clarinet piece I like least is the f minor sonata because that bubbly finale doesn't really work for me, the rest is also good. This is a bit like the 4th symphony that would be my favorite (maybe still is...) but for that crazy 3rd movement.

[André]

The clarinet quintet? Or did I overlook it in your post?

There is no chamber work of Brahms which I do not enjoy wholeheartedly.  It's his orchestral stuff which goes over my head. 

Yes, you did overlook 😉. I wrote 'The clarinet trio and quintet'

[André]

I also don't see in @André list the op. 60 Piano Quartet, my favourite Brahms chamber work.

I did list it: check under 'piano quartet no 3' 😉

[André]

The only chamber music piece I've ever been lukewarm on has been his Piano Quartet No. 2, Op. 26.

However, I've warmed up to it more in recent years.

The rest I loved unreservedly.

The op 26 piano quartet has been orchestrated and recorded by Kenneth Woods (it's on Nimbus Alliance). Believe it or not it's excellent ! I have the disc but I think it's available on youtube.

It seems Brahms' chamber music has attracted attention as fit for orchestral treatment: apart from the well-known arrangement of op 25 by Schönberg, there's an orchestration of the op 34 piano quintet by english composer Robin Holloway.

[San Antone]

Since the viola sonatas are the same music as the Op. 120 clarinet sonatas, I love the works - and while I might enjoy the clarinet a bit better, the viola is also a very expressive instrument and I enjoy the dark timbre feeling it entirely suitable for the music.

This somewhat new release is very enjoyable.

[Jo498]

The op 26 piano quartet has been orchestrated and recorded by Kenneth Woods (it's on Nimbus Alliance). Believe it or not it's excellent ! I have the disc but I think it's available on youtube.

It seems Brahms' chamber music has attracted attention as fit for orchestral treatment: apart from the well-known arrangement of op 25 by Schönberg, there's an orchestration of the op 34 piano quintet by english composer Robin Holloway.

Someone also orchestrated the B major trio and I think Berio one or both of the clarinet sonatas!

[Jo498]

Wonderfully non-Schenkerian performance of the op 101 trio from Vogt and the Tetzlaffs - full of asperities and sharpness and articulations rather than the familiar mid century modern long lyrical phrases.

I came to play it because the scherzo of op 101 came up in a conversation - it may be the most startlingly original music Brahms wrote.

There are also live recordings with Vogt from his Heimbach festival of opp.8, 25, 26, 60 and 34.

[Der lächelnde Schatten]

Like @San Antone, I'm going to recommend a recording of the Viola Sonatas, which I believe to be exemplary (although I'm sure that Harmonia Mundi recording with Tamestit and Tiberghien is quite good):



I also can't say which I prefer: the clarinet or the viola, they're both different and offer nuances and colors that the other instrument does not, so I cannot choose.

[Herman]

Who's Simrock?

Brahms's publisher. He also published Bruch, Dvorak en Suk, and many others.

[San Antone]

The op 26 piano quartet has been orchestrated and recorded by Kenneth Woods (it's on Nimbus Alliance). Believe it or not it's excellent ! I have the disc but I think it's available on youtube.

It seems Brahms' chamber music has attracted attention as fit for orchestral treatment: apart from the well-known arrangement of op 25 by Schönberg, there's an orchestration of the op 34 piano quintet by english composer Robin Holloway.

One of the worst ideas, IMO.  I wish these people would leave Brahms' chamber music alone.  It is perfect just as it is, and the last thing we need is more orchestral music.  Especially since it is completely unnecessary: if Brahms had wanted these pieces to be orchestral he would have written them like that.

[Madiel]

Especially since it is completely unnecessary: if Brahms had wanted these pieces to be orchestral he would have written them like that.

This is how I feel about a great many composers, who had the capacity to choose which instruments a work was written for and can be presumed to have made a conscious decision about it.

[Madiel]

This has of course prompted me to think that I haven't listened to some of these pieces for far too long.

But I've hit a snag within seconds. I have the Beaux Arts Trio for op.8, and straight away my ears are telling me there just isn't any "brio" in the Allegro con brio. And these days I can readily try a few other versions on Idagio and confirm that other people give it more drive. Has my relative lack of enthusiasm for op.8 been dictated by a sleepy performance?

And do I try the sleepy performance anyway, because I SHOULD be asleep right now...