Chopin Recordings

[Mandryka]

In Chopin's time, night wasn't always about torment and high drama, though, of course, some composers did love a good stormy midnight chase, as Liszt. But there was also a long-standing tradition of the night as a time for quiet reflection and dreamy contemplation, championed by John Field, the father of the nocturne, and carried on by Chopin himself. While some of Chopin's nocturnes do have their tempestuous moments, on the whole, they lean more toward moonlit reveries than existential crises. And let's not forget that 19th-century literature and painting also depicted night in many ways, not just as a setting for turmoil, but also for gentle melancholy, romance, and peace. So, the idea that people of the time only saw night as a theater of suffering is, well, a bit dramatic in itself, don't you think?

In fact, I've never heard the Field.

[Que]

The problem is that the nocturnes are loud, or very often are. They have loud hymn like sections, sections of political music, imitations of canon fire  and such like.

Only when played by a Russian pianist on a Steinway... 

[Florestan]

political music

What do you mean by that with respect to Chopin?

[Mandryka]

What do you mean by that with respect to Chopin?

 I think I meant that some of the nocturnes seem to have parts which sound like anthems, e.g. op 48/1. Normally I think of the nationalistic forms as political in Chopin, polonaises and mazurkas.

[Florestan]

I think I meant that some of the nocturnes seem to have parts which sound like anthems, e.g. op 48/1. Normally I think of the nationalistic forms as political in Chopin, polonaises and mazurkas.

I'm not sure political is the right word. Chopin personally was rather apolitical and preferred the moderate circles of the Polish exiles to the radical ones. It's Schumann who described him as a political composer but I'm not sure he saw himself in the same light, what with his general aloofness and his aversion to programmatic music.

[Mandryka]

I'm not sure political is the right word. Chopin personally was rather apolitical and preferred the moderate circles of the Polish exiles to the radical ones. It's Schumann who described him as a political composer but I'm not sure he saw himself in the same light, what with his general aloofness and his aversion to programmatic music.

Re Chopin and programmatic music, his official disdain may well have overstated his actual opinion. He would sometimes help his students by offering programmatic interpretations of his music (OP 25/1 is a little shepherd who takes refuge in a peaceful grotto from an approaching storm. In the distance rushes the wind and the rain, while the shepherd gently plays a melody on his flute."

Arguably the programme for the op 28 preludes is contained in Lamartine's 24 Méditations poétiques -- this is in Anatole Leikin's book on the Preludes.
 

[Florestan]

Re Chopin and programmatic music, his official disdain may well have overstated his actual opinion. He would sometimes help his students by offering programmatic interpretations of his music (OP 25/1 is a little shepherd who takes refuge in a peaceful grotto from an approaching storm. In the distance rushes the wind and the rain, while the shepherd gently plays a melody on his flute."

Arguably the programme for the op 28 preludes is contained in Lamartine's 24 Méditations poétiques -- this is in Anatole Leikin's book on the Preludes.
 

Those are not Chopin's own words but what Kleczynski claimed that Chopin said --- but he was 12 when Chopin died and never met him, so it's pure hearsay. I have not read Leikin's book so I can't comment.
 
When Chopin read Friedrich Wieck's review of his La ci darem la mano variations, with its detailed programmatic description of each variation, he commented something to the effect that the German's wild flights of fancy made him die with laughter.

[AnotherSpin]

In fact, I've never heard the Field.

Field is rather sedative, you know. Not a criticism, quite the opposite – it's quite praise. At this point, anything with a calming effect is a treasure, and anything that might stir the nerves is something I'll be steering clear of most of the times.

[prémont]

In fact, I've never heard the Field.

Neither my field.

[Mandryka]

Field is rather sedative, you know. Not a criticism, quite the opposite – it's quite praise. At this point, anything with a calming effect is a treasure, and anything that might stir the nerves is something I'll be steering clear of most of the times.

Get your Silvestrov out. Are you in Odesa right now?

[AnotherSpin]

Get your Silvestrov out. Are you in Odesa right now?

Regarding Silvestrov — fair enough. He's quite serene. But also rather sad, and sometimes I want something a little less melancholic. Though I must admit, his disillusioned, hope-starved view of the world is something I understand all too well, and, dare I say, even relate to.

As for my whereabouts, I find myself in Odesa now and then, when slow and undemanding matters require my attention, like yesterday and today. But most of the time, I reside in a house by the sea, about an hour's drive from the city.

[AnotherSpin]

Neither my field.

John Field spent many years and died in Russia, so why not call him a Russian composer? I mean, that's how it usually goes, isn't it? The slightest connection is enough for a full-fledged claim.

And if he's even somewhat, or better yet, predominantly Russian, then on this forum, where anything Russian is met with unrestrained rapture, his music isn't just recommended, it's practically mandatory .

[Holden]

John Field spent many years and died in Russia, so why not call him a Russian composer? I mean, that's how it usually goes, isn't it? The slightest connection is enough for a full-fledged claim.

And if he's even somewhat, or better yet, predominantly Russian, then on this forum, where anything Russian is met with unrestrained rapture, his music isn't just recommended, it's practically mandatory .

...and of course because he was born in Ireland and titled the works 'Nocturnes' some record companies decided that the appropriate recordings for his music shoud be an Irish pianist playing them with sickly rubato. (Think John O'Conor and Micael O'Rourke) UGHH! This, despite the fact that they are were composed in what was still the classical era and mainly while he was in Russia. Listen to recordings by ALice Sara Ott or Noel Lee (all available on YT) and you'll hear how they should be played. Both pianists bring a wide dynamic range to these works as well as appropriate changes of tempo.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Did Chopin allow, or encourage, ad lib/improvisations to the players?

[FlossusAndDieMusik]

New on this forum. A year ago i searched for the best Nocturne Op. 55, No. 2. Superbly Recommended became the performance by Ignaz Friedman, which i listened to over and over again.
Now, without having to listen  to a huge amount of Barcarolle performances, what is the absolute best one? age of recording does not matter of course.
I have listened to Ivan Moravec and Rubinstein. They were quite different. Moravec is much more tensioned troughout the barcarolle, and builds up beautiful and produces A rich and serious tone. But is misses a good climax and a certain spontanity/freshness or lightness with fluent plating Which Rubinstein does deliver.

So, which barcarolle to listen to!?

[FlossusAndDieMusik]

In fact, I've never heard the Field.

I listened for my whole live to Bart van Oort, who plays on a 1823 Broadwood. I works wonderful. Much better performance imo as well than the over the top expressive nocturnes by Alice Sara Ott.

[Florestan]

I listened for my whole live to Bart van Oort, who plays on a 1823 Broadwood. I works wonderful. Much better performance imo as well than the over the top expressive nocturnes by Alice Sara Ott.

Over the top? I beg to differ. Minimal rubato, rather brisk tempi, emotional balance, elegant playing --- Ott's take is decidedly Classical.

Welcome to the forum!

[Que]

I listened for my whole live to Bart van Oort, who plays on a 1823 Broadwood. I works wonderful. Much better performance imo as well than the over the top expressive nocturnes by Alice Sara Ott.

Love the Van Oort recording as well. And Welcome to the forum!

[prémont]

Love the Van Oort recording as well. And Welcome to the forum!

I'm with you. Van Oort's recording is my go to recording of this music.

[Mandryka]

So, which barcarolle to listen to!?

Julian von Karolyi