What are you listening 2 now?

[Karl Henning]

I need to take another stab at Krenek. I own that CPO set of symphonies and couldn't really connect with any of the music.

I've been reading yours and @ritter's comments about Krenek with great interest.

I think you'll enjoy this:

[Florestan]

There is no such thing as "unsatisfactory" instruments, Andrei.

Have you never heard a plinky-plonky, out-of-tune fortepiano? @Madiel has just offered us one such example a few posts above.

[Traverso]

Beethoven

"An die Ferne Geliebte"

Dietrich-Fischer Dieskau
Hartmut Holl

[JBS]

Have you never heard a plinky-plonky, out-of-tune fortepiano? @Madiel has just offered us one such example a few posts above.

Dollars to donuts, if you dove into the liner notes, you'll find an explanation that it's using a speculative or experimental or hypothetical tuning that was "really" the one the composer had in mind.
Example: Egarr's recording of the Goldberg Variations (albeit that was on harpsichord).

You don't think they'd admit to it being out of tune after all the trouble and expense of recording it, do you?

[JBS]

Beethoven

"An die Ferne Geliebte"

Dietrich-Fischer Dieskau
Hartmut Holl

The English language folksongs in that set (I don't remember if they were Beethoven or Haydn) make for great comic relief due to the accent DFD attempted to use in singing them.

[Florestan]

Dollars to donuts, if you dove into the liner notes, you'll find an explanation that it's using a speculative or experimental or hypothetical tuning that was "really" the one the composer had in mind.
Example: Egarr's recording of the Goldberg Variations (albeit that was on harpsichord).

You don't think they'd admit to it being out of tune after all the trouble and expense of recording it, do you?

Too bad for them. All the rationalization and speculation in the world will not make an out-of-tune, plinky-plonky fortepiano a satisfactory instrument. 

[Traverso]

The English language folksongs in that set (I don't remember if they were Beethoven or Haydn) make for great comic relief due to the accent DFD attempted to use in singing them.

The return to Ulster...the singing is great and as you say his English is funny indeed....

These are nevertheless more to my liking.

[Karl Henning]

Dollars to donuts, if you dove into the liner notes, you'll find an explanation that it's using a speculative or experimental or hypothetical tuning that was "really" the one the composer had in mind.
Example: Egarr's recording of the Goldberg Variations (albeit that was on harpsichord).

You don't think they'd admit to it being out of tune after all the trouble and expense of recording it, do you?

Which would suggest that the listener's quarrel is with the tuning, rather than with the instrument. 

[Traverso]

Beethoven

Septet

[Der lächelnde Schatten]

I think you'll enjoy this:

Mucho gracias, Karl! I'll check it out.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Seixas: Harpsichord Sonatas. Robert Woolley.

Bach: Lute Music. Nigel North.

Based on a suggestion by @Irons for an excellent recording label for recording sound.

[DavidW]

[Linz]

Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky Romeo and Juliet, Fantasy Overture, Capriccio italien, Op. 45, Francesca da Rimini, Op. 32; Elegy in G Major for String Orchestra, TH 51
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, Vladimir Ashkenazy

[prémont]

If ideality (is this a word?) means agreement between something and the original vehicle through which that something was presented, then I have no problem whatsoever in agreeing that harpsichords are ideal for Bach's keyboard partitas. My problem is with the selective application of this criterion. Harpsichords were not designed for being listened to in concert halls or through headphones from a recording. Therefore, such listening environments are not ideal for Bach's keyboard partitas. Demanding strict adherence to harpsichords while making allowance for recordings or recitals is inconsistent in terms of ideality. We can have the ideal instrument but rarely, if ever, do we have the ideal environment too, and therefore rarely, if ever,  do we have the ideal experience of old music. That's all I'm saying --- and this is the last time I'm saying it.

I think it's impossible to define the ideal musical experience, opinions differ too much.

In my post above I wrote about the degree of compromises (abstractions) we must accept in the process of listening to music. So instead of seeking the ideal musical experience we should rather strive for the for us, as individuals, optimal musical experience. Even here opinions differ, but this will not prevent me from listening to music in the way I find optimal in the given circumstances.

[prémont]

Dollars to donuts, if you dove into the liner notes, you'll find an explanation that it's using a speculative or experimental or hypothetical tuning that was "really" the one the composer had in mind.
Example: Egarr's recording of the Goldberg Variations (albeit that was on harpsichord).

Human beings have theorized and experimented with tunings for many hundred years, and every existing tuning may be said to be theoretical, because there is no natural tuning. Also equal tuning is highly theoretical and experimental.

And as for the Goldberg Variations, we are at a loss, as we do not know the tuning Bach used. He reportedly had his own personal tuning.

[Christo]

Last night at the "liberation concert" on the Amstel river in Amsterdam, I heard orchestra Phion play an over-familiar piece, but I broke my brain: what was it? Until in a flash: Aladdin of course, Carl Nielsen's most exotic score. Glad to get it out again. 

[Der lächelnde Schatten]

Hat-tip to @Karl Henning

Now playing Krenek Symphonic Elegy, Op. 105 streaming via Presto Music



Very nice! I'm definitely going to have explore more of Krenek's music. And since I'm giving Presto Music's streaming service a trial*, I figured this would be a good time to do just that.

*I never thought I would be doing the streaming music thing, but there's just so much great stuff out there that I simply don't own and definitely won't own now that I've stopped buying physical media.

[Florestan]

I think it's impossible to define the ideal musical experience, opinions differ too much.

In my post above I wrote about the degree of compromises (abstractions) we must accept in the process of listening to music. So instead of seeking the ideal musical experience we should rather strive for the for us, as individuals, optimal musical experience. Even here opinions differ, but this will not prevent me from listening to music in the way I find optimal in the given circumstances.

Fully agreed.

[Der lächelnde Schatten]

Now streaming via Presto Music --- Krenek Symphonische Musik No. 1, Op. 11

[Mandryka]

If ideality (is this a word?) means agreement between something and the original vehicle through which that something was presented, then I have no problem whatsoever in agreeing that harpsichords are ideal for Bach's keyboard partitas. My problem is with the selective application of this criterion. Harpsichords were not designed for being listened to in concert halls or through headphones from a recording. Therefore, such listening environments are not ideal for Bach's keyboard partitas. Demanding strict adherence to harpsichords while making allowance for recordings or recitals is inconsistent in terms of ideality. We can have the ideal instrument but rarely, if ever, do we have the ideal environment too, and therefore rarely, if ever,  do we have the ideal experience of old music. That's all I'm saying --- and this is the last time I'm saying it.

In Hugh Arthur Scott's paper "London Concerts from 1700 to 1750" (The Musical Quarterly Vol. 24, No. 2) he notes that there were in fact public concerts with harpsichord in London at that time.   I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that there were public concerts with Handel's solo keyboard suites in London, Paris etc , but I haven't got a reference.  Neither do I know when the Bach harpsichord concertos were  created in public, presumably in a Friday night concert at Cafe Zimmermann in Leipzig, when the composer was alive.