The British Composers Thread

[foxandpeng]

I forgot to post yesterday on what my St George's Day listening had been (apologies to Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish).

Quite by chance it was all works of Bernard Stevens from these discs:




What a composer! every piece is so so right and inevitable. People complain about Robert Simpson being cerebral, Stevens makes Simpson look an extrovert!

Listening to his Cello Concerto now. Decent piece of music!

[DaveF]

I'm not sure Michael Berkeley has been mentioned in this thread (and he doesn't have one of his own), but I've really been enjoying his bits of the 6-volume Chandos Berkeley Edition, devoted equally to him and his father Sir Lennox.  Have been especially impressed by the Horn Concerto and the Concerto for Orchestra, 'Seascapes'.

There is also a rather nice symmetry in the fact that Lennox's father was the illegitimate son of the Earl of Berkeley, and that Michael has now been ennobled in his own right as Baron Berkeley of Knighton in the County of Radnorshire.

[calyptorhynchus]

Its Proms 2025 time!  Curious that RVW "London Sympony" is present again.  Some impressive British Choral music; Delius Mass of Life (wow), Bliss Beatitudes, RVW Sancta Civitus.  Walton Symphony 1 in a concert with a brief piece of Ruth Gipps, Elgar Enigma and In the South.  No Bax (no surprise), no significant Arnold and of course all the "marginal" British composers get no look in at all (Rubbra, Alwyn, Rawsthorne, Foulds, Lloyd - add pretty much any name you like here although Matthias gets an overture!).  Why we need 4 Mahler symphonies though (2,3,5,7) - all big and expensive to stage I'm not sure.....

Sir Henry would have had more British music! 

[vandermolen]

Its Proms 2025 time!  Curious that RVW "London Sympony" is present again.  Some impressive British Choral music; Delius Mass of Life (wow), Bliss Beatitudes, RVW Sancta Civitus.  Walton Symphony 1 in a concert with a brief piece of Ruth Gipps, Elgar Enigma and In the South.  No Bax (no surprise), no significant Arnold and of course all the "marginal" British composers get no look in at all (Rubbra, Alwyn, Rawsthorne, Foulds, Lloyd - add pretty much any name you like here although Matthias gets an overture!).  Why we need 4 Mahler symphonies though (2,3,5,7) - all big and expensive to stage I'm not sure.....

Which version of A London Symphony?

[Roasted Swan]

Which version of A London Symphony?

I think I saw them listing 44 minutes as the running time which suggests the final version....

[ultralinear]

I saw Petrenko conduct the RPO in A London Symphony a few years back, and yes it was the final version, and FWIW I though it fine - maybe not that remarkable, but nothing to find fault with either.  What is distinctive about Petrenko's conducting is the fanatical control he exerts over every aspect of performance, which may not suit all material equally, but is generally quite effective - it's how I imagine Mravinsky might have conducted RVW.

[vandermolen]

I think I saw them listing 44 minutes as the running time which suggests the final version....

Thanks. I was lucky to see the 1920 version last year.

[vandermolen]

I saw Petrenko conduct the RPO in A London Symphony a few years back, and yes it was the final version, and FWIW I though it fine - maybe not that remarkable, but nothing to find fault with either.  What is distinctive about Petrenko's conducting is the fanatical control he exerts over every aspect of performance, which may not suit all material equally, but is generally quite effective - it's how I imagine Mravinsky might have conducted RVW.

Amazingly there is a Melodiya set of the VW symphonies (Rozhdestvensky)

[ultralinear]

Amazingly there is a Melodiya set of the VW symphonies (Rozhdestvensky)

Yes - and by no means the worst IMO.

[vandermolen]

Yes - and by no means the worst IMO.

I rather like it - especially the 'Dr Phibes' moment when the organ goes haywire for a moment in Sinfonia Antartica. It is refreshing to hear a soviet view of these symphonies.

[Der lächelnde Schatten]

Its Proms 2025 time!  Curious that RVW "London Sympony" is present again.  Some impressive British Choral music; Delius Mass of Life (wow), Bliss Beatitudes, RVW Sancta Civitus.  Walton Symphony 1 in a concert with a brief piece of Ruth Gipps, Elgar Enigma and In the South.  No Bax (no surprise), no significant Arnold and of course all the "marginal" British composers get no look in at all (Rubbra, Alwyn, Rawsthorne, Foulds, Lloyd - add pretty much any name you like here although Matthias gets an overture!).  Why we need 4 Mahler symphonies though (2,3,5,7) - all big and expensive to stage I'm not sure.....

The fact that RVW's Sancta Civitas and Delius' A Mass of Life will be performed is reason enough to celebrate. Incredible pieces both. I hope you will attend these concerts. In fact, I believe Santa Civitas to be one of RVW's more underrated masterpieces.

[Roasted Swan]

The fact that RVW's Sancta Civitas and Delius' A Mass of Life will be performed is reason enough to celebrate. Incredible pieces both. I hope you will attend these concerts. In fact, I believe Santa Civitas to be one of RVW's more underrated masterpieces.

a neat link with the recent Rachmaninoff thread......



and here is a live LSO "London Symphony" too.....

[Der lächelnde Schatten]

a neat link with the recent Rachmaninoff thread......

I've got that disc and it is exquisite. Love Rozhdestvensky's RVW recordings.

[Symphonic Addict]

Another neat release on 4 July:

[Roy Bland]

Why Demuth is so little known?

[Roasted Swan]

Why Demuth is so little known?

The image on the YouTube link tells part of the story - "Bosworth Record".  Bosworths were a major music publisher right up until the late 20th Century but their hey-day was up to the late 60's (at a guess).  They made their money being the UK publisher of the Viennese Waltz composers as well as the still-used violin method by Sevcik.  But a lot of what they did serviced what would now be called the "Light Music" industry.  So they published Ketelbey as well as composers such as Norman Demuth.  Before Radio and in the early days of broadcasting it is hard for people to realise just how ubiquitous live music was.  Demuth was one of many many composers who serviced this voracious need for music.

The issue for such composers today whose music lies between truly 'light' and 'serious' is there is almost no live market left and when ensembles do want to do "pops" they turn to Eric Coates (or perhaps Ketelbey at a push) or that small handful of composers from the genre whose music has survived in one or two still-recognised examples.  In my sheet music library I have 2 Demuth works ((Overture for a Joyful Occasion and Pastoral Dance) but have never heard either live.  But there are literally dozens of names equally forgotten.  Of course by no means is all this music "great" - even within the narrow definition of the genre - but nearly all is attractive and well crafted.

The truth is there a still a lot of composers (not just British) from the early-mid 20th century who are too little known.  The current attention Ruth Gipps is (deservedly) getting focusses on her neglect as a function mainly of gender.  Of course that is part of the reason but by no means the only or even the most significant reason.  Circumstance, luck, personality,personal wealth (to be able to promote your own music), friendships with influential people all dictate enduring fame.  There are some composers who have had a degree of more recent reappraisal which has not translated into any kind of wider/enduring 'fame'.  John Foulds and Montague Phillips are two who quickly spring to mind whose music should be heard far more often and widely than it is.  But then how about Harry Farjeon or Arthur Wood or Arthur Hinton or W H Reed or Alfred Wall or Harry Waldo-Warner as just a few more whose music of genuine quality and interest languishes in my collection unknown and un-appreciated......

[foxandpeng]

The truth is there a still a lot of composers (not just British) from the early-mid 20th century who are too little known.  The current attention Ruth Gipps is (deservedly) getting focusses on her neglect as a function mainly of gender.  Of course that is part of the reason but by no means the only or even the most significant reason.  Circumstance, luck, personality, personal wealth (to be able to promote your own music), friendships with influential people all dictate enduring fame. There are some composers who have had a degree of more recent reappraisal which has not translated into any kind of wider/enduring 'fame'.  John Foulds and Montague Phillips are two who quickly spring to mind whose music should be heard far more often and widely than it is.  But then how about Harry Farjeon or Arthur Wood or Arthur Hinton or W H Reed or Alfred Wall or Harry Waldo-Warner as just a few more whose music of genuine quality and interest languishes in my collection unknown and un-appreciated......

This is a particularly helpful set of observations, which is relevant to some of my questions around Gipps and her reach. Reasons for 'success' and opportunity for entering the wider public consciousness or otherwise, are always multifaceted, but those you mention are not insignificant. Add in the culture of the BBC and the male dominated networks, the types of music seen as in vogue or valuable, and it is unsurprising that composers such as Gipps have not been promoted or popularised. Add in a level of intellectual elitism, the pushback against anything that might be seen as pedestrian or conservative, and the field of opportunity narrows even further.

Thanks for this.

[Roy Bland]

Thanks for  answers even if I find them only partially satisfactory

[Roasted Swan]

Thanks for  answers even if I find them only partially satisfactory

go on - elaborate - you know you want to.....!

[Roasted Swan]

A recent Charity Shop purchase;



Basically repackaging by Nimbus of back catalogue.  I'm not sure they do themselves much of a favour here by emphasising at first glance the whole "English Pastoral Tradition" thing.  Also, there is an enduring perception that these (relatively) early Nimbus digital recordings suffer from "ambisonic" bathroom acoustics.  The truth is the bulk of the music here is not white-note-modal-folksiness but powerful and individual.  The Planets is unusual as its recorded in the Royal Albert Hall which is a notorious acoustic but its a solid performance.  I listened to disc 3 today which is a lovely programme;  Finzi Ecologue, Bridge There is a Willow grows aslant a brook (what a remarkable piece this is) and Delius Florida Suite.  So 3 kind-of pastoral scores but with genuine substance as well as beauty.  The Finzi and Bridge are genuine miniature masterpieces with the Delius just overflowing with heart-warming melody......