Astronomy

[LKB]

Obsessed? In a way. I was overwhelmed by what I saw as a schoolboy, with that little 4" reflector. Most especially there was one particular moment in 1963, which I wrote about in an article many years later:

[For drawing see below. Note the bad spelling!]

"It was to the Pleiades that I first turned my new telescope. It wasn't easy to sweep them up, looking into the side of the tube instead of directly along it. I lined it up roughly first, then moved the instrument slowly from side to side, peering into the eyepiece. I saw a sprinkling of unfamiliar stars; then another sprinkling, and still more. I began to wonder what the Pleiades would look like, magnified thirty times. Would I even recognise them? And then, suddenly, unmistakably, they were there.

This moment was to have a profound influence on my life, but I still don't know how to describe it adequately. I've sometimes compared it to seeing a thousand tiny diamonds scattered onto black velvet. I knew they were stars, but they looked like jewels – the brightest jewels that ever were. It was the loveliest, the most mysterious, the most astonishing sight I'd ever seen. I moved away from the telescope because my eyes had filled with tears, and I couldn't see, and I stood, trembling a little, in the darkness of the garden. Howard Carter must have felt like this when he pushed his torch through the hole and took his first look into the tomb of Tutankhamun. 'What can you see?' his companions asked. 'Wonderful things,' he replied. There was no one there to ask me what I'd seen; but standing alone in the shadows of the garden that night, I knew that here, as never before, was something I had to get to the bottom of. What was this thing, this Pleiades, that could shake me with such intensity? It was the wrong question, though I didn't know it then. But it turned me into an astronomer."

A moving account, thanks for that. 

[relm1]

Obsessed? In a way. I was overwhelmed by what I saw as a schoolboy, with that little 4" reflector. Most especially there was one particular moment in 1963, which I wrote about in an article many years later:

[For drawing see below. Note the bad spelling!]

"It was to the Pleiades that I first turned my new telescope. It wasn't easy to sweep them up, looking into the side of the tube instead of directly along it. I lined it up roughly first, then moved the instrument slowly from side to side, peering into the eyepiece. I saw a sprinkling of unfamiliar stars; then another sprinkling, and still more. I began to wonder what the Pleiades would look like, magnified thirty times. Would I even recognise them? And then, suddenly, unmistakably, they were there.

This moment was to have a profound influence on my life, but I still don't know how to describe it adequately. I've sometimes compared it to seeing a thousand tiny diamonds scattered onto black velvet. I knew they were stars, but they looked like jewels – the brightest jewels that ever were. It was the loveliest, the most mysterious, the most astonishing sight I'd ever seen. I moved away from the telescope because my eyes had filled with tears, and I couldn't see, and I stood, trembling a little, in the darkness of the garden. Howard Carter must have felt like this when he pushed his torch through the hole and took his first look into the tomb of Tutankhamun. 'What can you see?' his companions asked. 'Wonderful things,' he replied. There was no one there to ask me what I'd seen; but standing alone in the shadows of the garden that night, I knew that here, as never before, was something I had to get to the bottom of. What was this thing, this Pleiades, that could shake me with such intensity? It was the wrong question, though I didn't know it then. But it turned me into an astronomer."

That drawing is so good, I knew that was the Pleiades before reading your description.  Are you a drawer still because you seem to have an eye for it.  I loved your writing, and it reminded me of me.  The crazy thing is I'm still like that.  Have you ever seen a solar eclipse in totality?  I can't remember if I wrote about it here, but I went to see the one in 2024 and it was mind blowing.  My first time to see totality and it was hard to explain.  I cried and many others I was with did as well...we were speechless.  The best way I can describe it is just seconds before totality, it is still daytime.  Within seconds the sky turns black, and stars are seen.  It was a primal fear that overtook me.  I knew exactly what was happening, read books on it, had gear to capture it, had practiced (because things switch within seconds), and still found myself unprepared for the experience.  It was overwhelmingly powerful to see the sun glowing with a red orb of fire that was brilliant but could be looked at directly.  No picture does it justice.  I could see what looked like an atmosphere around the sun.  It felt like for a brief moment of time, the curtain had been pulled away revealing this great cosmic drama that we're part of but oblivious to. 

[relm1]

Beautiful photo! I admire the resolution of your image - the dust lanes in the galaxy's disk are so well-defined - and the nucleus positively glows. I couldn't make out individual stars inside M31 - at least not in the posted image (did you have to reduce the quality to make it small enough to post?) - I think all of the individual stars I'm seeing are just foreground stars in our Milky Way.

Thank you!  The interesting thing is there is a bit of a dance in bringing out the dust lane detail.  When I add brightness, you see much bigger galaxy but it overtakes the dust lanes so you need to balance them out to both show but neither dominate.  This is all visible light but I added narrow band which shows more nebulosity and dark matter but I felt brought out the dust lanes too much so stayed with the visible light.  I also love the bright blue star. 

Oh yes, the original image is 20 megs so this is 1 meg.  Here is a close up where you can see individual stars in the M31.

[krummholz]

Thank you!  The interesting thing is there is a bit of a dance in bringing out the dust lane detail.  When I add brightness, you see much bigger galaxy but it overtakes the dust lanes so you need to balance them out to both show but neither dominate.  This is all visible light but I added narrow band which shows more nebulosity and dark matter but I felt brought out the dust lanes too much so stayed with the visible light.  I also love the bright blue star. 

Oh yes, the original image is 20 megs so this is 1 meg.  Here is a close up where you can see individual stars in the M31.

Are you sure you're seeing individual stars in M31? Remember, it's 2.5 million light years away - I'd be astonished if individual stars were visible except maybe in something like a JWST image that has such high resolution you could blow it up a hundred times. I do see a lot of foreground stars - but the M31 stars just blur together.

[krummholz]

That drawing is so good, I knew that was the Pleiades before reading your description.  Are you a drawer still because you seem to have an eye for it.  I loved your writing, and it reminded me of me.  The crazy thing is I'm still like that.  Have you ever seen a solar eclipse in totality?  I can't remember if I wrote about it here, but I went to see the one in 2024 and it was mind blowing.  My first time to see totality and it was hard to explain.  I cried and many others I was with did as well...we were speechless.  The best way I can describe it is just seconds before totality, it is still daytime.  Within seconds the sky turns black, and stars are seen.  It was a primal fear that overtook me.  I knew exactly what was happening, read books on it, had gear to capture it, had practiced (because things switch within seconds), and still found myself unprepared for the experience.  It was overwhelmingly powerful to see the sun glowing with a red orb of fire that was brilliant but could be looked at directly.  No picture does it justice.  I could see what looked like an atmosphere around the sun.  It felt like for a brief moment of time, the curtain had been pulled away revealing this great cosmic drama that we're part of but oblivious to. 

I saw it too (from the VT-QC border) - the pinkish ring around the Moon's silhouette, which as you probably know was the chromosphere! (the lowest layer of the Sun's "atmosphere")

[Elgarian Redux]

That drawing is so good, I knew that was the Pleiades before reading your description.  Are you a drawer still because you seem to have an eye for it.  I loved your writing, and it reminded me of me.  The crazy thing is I'm still like that.

The notebook started in March 1963, and the last drawing in it is dated late 1965, so that period of frenetic activity lasted for nearly three years - up to when I started my physics degree, when I no longer had the time to spend on it. 

Have you ever seen a solar eclipse in totality?  I can't remember if I wrote about it here, but I went to see the one in 2024 and it was mind blowing.  My first time to see totality and it was hard to explain.  I cried and many others I was with did as well...we were speechless.  The best way I can describe it is just seconds before totality, it is still daytime.  Within seconds the sky turns black, and stars are seen.  It was a primal fear that overtook me.  I knew exactly what was happening, read books on it, had gear to capture it, had practiced (because things switch within seconds), and still found myself unprepared for the experience.  It was overwhelmingly powerful to see the sun glowing with a red orb of fire that was brilliant but could be looked at directly.  No picture does it justice.  I could see what looked like an atmosphere around the sun.  It felt like for a brief moment of time, the curtain had been pulled away revealing this great cosmic drama that we're part of but oblivious to. 

That's a marvellous description of what you experienced (you made me feel it too). Although I've never seen a total solar eclipse, I get a similar primeval shakeup when I see a total lunar eclipse - that baleful dark red globe hanging in the sky, being scary and uplifting both at the same time.

I never quite recaptured that 'first fine careless rapture' for astronomy that I'd had in my teens. I did research in radio astronomy for a few years, and that was the wrong move. My life took a very different turn after that. I still have a telescope, but I'm now at an age where carrying an equatorial mount outside into the garden is a lot harder than it used to be, so it's not in use very often. The one thing I still have, and never lost, is a love of the sky, both day and night, with or without optical aid.

The images you post here are stunning. My sixteen-year-old amateur-astronomer self (who is still in here somewhere) was utterly mind-blown by your M31, and he aches when he sees its beauty.

[relm1]

The notebook started in March 1963, and the last drawing in it is dated late 1965, so that period of frenetic activity lasted for nearly three years - up to when I started my physics degree, when I no longer had the time to spend on it. 

That's a marvellous description of what you experienced (you made me feel it too). Although I've never seen a total solar eclipse, I get a similar primeval shakeup when I see a total lunar eclipse - that baleful dark red globe hanging in the sky, being scary and uplifting both at the same time.

I never quite recaptured that 'first fine careless rapture' for astronomy that I'd had in my teens. I did research in radio astronomy for a few years, and that was the wrong move. My life took a very different turn after that. I still have a telescope, but I'm now at an age where carrying an equatorial mount outside into the garden is a lot harder than it used to be, so it's not in use very often. The one thing I still have, and never lost, is a love of the sky, both day and night, with or without optical aid.

The images you post here are stunning. My sixteen-year-old amateur-astronomer self (who is still in here somewhere) was utterly mind-blown by your M31, and he aches when he sees its beauty.

You're like me.  I walk around always looking towards the sky.  Bump in to things too because I'm not watching where I'm going!  One day, I'm sure I'll fall in a swimming pool or something.  I think it seems Astronomy is better as a hobby than a career for some of us.  Thanks for the kind remarks of M31, truthfully, I'm blown away by what I capture because you don't really know what you got till you process it.  Sometimes I even see a glimpse of what's there but throw away the processing and start over because I know there is something better in what I took if I start over and try again.  You might want to join your local astro club because they tend to have amateurs with very large scopes and are happy to share the experience with others, so you don't need to lug around your own scope.  In fact, that's how we get so many huge scopes.  I could never afford any of these (or carry them) but I asked how did we get these very fine scopes and they said some people aged out of the hobby or just no longer could use the gear and rather than selling it, decided it would find a good home in the club where others like me can access them.  These are scopes I didn't even know I wanted and they're free!

[relm1]

Are you sure you're seeing individual stars in M31? Remember, it's 2.5 million light years away - I'd be astonished if individual stars were visible except maybe in something like a JWST image that has such high resolution you could blow it up a hundred times. I do see a lot of foreground stars - but the M31 stars just blur together.

I'm not certain but they look like individual stars on the galactic plain.  You can see quite a lot of them and they don't seem to be randomly throughout the picture, just the edges of the galaxy.

[LKB]

I'm not certain but they look like individual stars on the galactic plain.  You can see quite a lot of them and they don't seem to be randomly throughout the picture, just the edges of the galaxy.

According to the Wikipedia article for M31, the first images of individual stars within it were captured in 1943, albeit with one of the largest telescopes of that era. Given the advances in imaging over the decades, it seems reasonable to me that Relm1's image probably includes at least some of M31's brighter stars.

Also, globular clusters form a sort of halo around both M31 and our own galaxy. Perhaps Relm1 captured some of M31's orbiting GCs, along with some bright stars.

[relm1]

According to the Wikipedia article for M31, the first images of individual stars within it were captured in 1943, albeit with one of the largest telescopes of that era. Given the advances in imaging over the decades, it seems reasonable to me that Relm1's image probably includes at least some of M31's brighter stars.

Also, globular clusters form a sort of halo around both M31 and our own galaxy. Perhaps Relm1 captured some of M31's orbiting GCs, along with some bright stars.

I asked my astroclub because it's an interesting topic.  The consensus was these are Indvidual stars in M31.  Some of their comments:

"Yes individual stars in Andromeda can be seen in images done by amateur telescopes. You have imaged some individual stars, likely very hot bright young OB stars in those open clusters in Andromeda. It is even possible to visually observe globular clusters in Andromeda with moderate apertures (~14", if memory serves).

The differences between your image and those from 100 to 125 years ago are a) imaging for many minutes vs. visual eyepiece observations (human eye integrates for about a tenth of a second with an effective QE of ~10%) and b) modern devices with QE 40-80% vs. glass plates and other photographic methods with a QE around 2%. Those are factors of 10s to 1,000s with long integration time, allowing one to image the very brightest point sources at so great a distance.

As a concrete example, the first magnitude bright supergiant star Deneb would be about 17th magnitude at Andromeda's distance.

From there, second-order effects of how a telescope + camera images a point spread function (and all other effects of imaging) will start to dominate what a final image will show."

I never heard of OB stars so had to look up what those were.  Seem to be hot, young stars that die young. Very interesting topic actually and I learned alot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OB_star

[krummholz]

I asked my astroclub because it's an interesting topic.  The consensus was these are Indvidual stars in M31.  Some of their comments:

"Yes individual stars in Andromeda can be seen in images done by amateur telescopes. You have imaged some individual stars, likely very hot bright young OB stars in those open clusters in Andromeda. It is even possible to visually observe globular clusters in Andromeda with moderate apertures (~14", if memory serves).

The differences between your image and those from 100 to 125 years ago are a) imaging for many minutes vs. visual eyepiece observations (human eye integrates for about a tenth of a second with an effective QE of ~10%) and b) modern devices with QE 40-80% vs. glass plates and other photographic methods with a QE around 2%. Those are factors of 10s to 1,000s with long integration time, allowing one to image the very brightest point sources at so great a distance.

As a concrete example, the first magnitude bright supergiant star Deneb would be about 17th magnitude at Andromeda's distance.

From there, second-order effects of how a telescope + camera images a point spread function (and all other effects of imaging) will start to dominate what a final image will show."

I never heard of OB stars so had to look up what those were.  Seem to be hot, young stars that die young. Very interesting topic actually and I learned alot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OB_star

Maybe it's the resolution of the posted image then. You can certainly see individual OB associations in amateur photographs - those are star clusters though, and O and B stars (spectral types, corresponding to stellar surface temperatures) are the most luminous main sequence stars, as they are the hottest and most massive. I'm still skeptical that anyone is seeing individual M31 stars in your photo, and I'm not seeing any denser concentration of stars near the edges of the disk - but I'm only seeing the posted (and presumably resolution-reduced) image, so maybe.

I do think it's likely that some of the brighter objects may be globular clusters, as @LKB suggested - those are certainly possible to image in a small telescope as they consist of hundreds of thousands of individual stars.