Who are the mediocrities of conducting?

[jochanaan]

...and Marin Alsop (in pre-1920 repertoire)...

I have to disagree, on the basis of a flawless, compelling Mahler Seventh I once heard live in Denver with the Colorado Symphony.  Now, the current CSO music director, Jeffrey Kahane, might qualify; I'm less than excited about his leading.

And I would hardly class Mehta as a "mediocrity."  He can be mediocre, but more often he's either totally brilliant or completely dull, with an occasional recording that's so wrong-headed I wind up snarling in frustration, as in an early Bruckner Eighth with the Los Angeles Philharmonic where (I swear) the orchestra never played above mezzo-forte!

Andre Previn, on the other hand, always seems to have something vital to say musically.

[MISHUGINA]

Ozawa doesn't deserve the word "mediocre", "overated" is more aptly suited, just like Rattle.

[Renfield]

Ozawa doesn't deserve the word "mediocre", "overated" is more aptly suited, just like Rattle.

By whom, though? I trust the listening public can also have a mind of their own, to "rate". The critics do not define my preferences.

[Brian]

By whom, though? I trust the listening public can also have a mind of their own, to "rate". The critics do not define my preferences.

And who rates Ozawa highly, anyways? 

[eyeresist]

And who rates Ozawa highly, anyways? 

Apparently his Turrangalila [sic] was highly regarded. It did nothing for me, but then I'm not much of a Messaien fan.

[Renfield]

And who rates Ozawa highly, anyways? 

Well, there's always the possibility.

[Brian]

Well, there's always the possibility.

When I was littler and just discovering classical music - say, 13 or 14 years old - and got my first Sony Discman thing, I discovered my parents had two CDs of Beethoven's Fifth - Karajan '62 and Ozawa. I was totally confused about why they would want two CDs of something, but decided to listen to both. And even THEN I thought the Ozawa was bad! 

[Renfield]

When I was littler and just discovering classical music - say, 13 or 14 years old - and got my first Sony Discman thing, I discovered my parents had two CDs of Beethoven's Fifth - Karajan '62 and Ozawa. I was totally confused about why they would want two CDs of something, but decided to listen to both. And even THEN I thought the Ozawa was bad! 

Hah. Well, next to that Karajan, few ones aren't.

I didn't even know Ozawa had done Beethoven on record! Thankfully, my own Sony Discman was perpetually occupied with Karajan's '62 cycle, and I was spared from such a fate. I still keep that version of the cycle (the cardboard box), even though I now listen to the hybrid SACD remastering (though not the SACD track): it was my first classical music purchase. 0:)


Although his Tchaikovsky isn't bad. Particularly the Violin Concerto with Mullova is still among my favourite versions of the piece; not in the same league as my top four (Huberman, Oistrakh, Heifetz and - yes - Julia Fischer), but still a "fave".

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I also admit I've never heard a truly great recording by either Lorin Maazel or James Levine, but that's probably my limited listening experience with those two.

More exposure might change your opinion of both Levine and Maazel.

Levine has for my money one of the top recorded performances of Schoenberg's Gurrelieder (on Oehms). He's also recorded some quality Mozart, Prokofiev, and, of course, Wagner.

As far as Maazel, he may not be as well represented as others in my collection but his recent edisc of R. Strauss on DG (with the NYP) is very nice.

[Renfield]

More exposure might change your opinion of both Levine and Maazel.

Levine has for my money one of the top recorded performances of Schoenberg's Gurrelieder (on Oehms). He's also recorded some quality Mozart, Prokofiev, and, of course, Wagner.

As far as Maazel, he may not be as well represented as others in my collection but his recent edisc of R. Strauss on DG (with the NYP) is very nice.

Indeed. I should look both up more thoroughly, some day.

[Lethevich]

I didn't even know Ozawa had done Beethoven on record!

I have a BSO 5th on (I think) Telarc - I got it second-hand and am regretting the £2 expenditure

[Daverz]

I have a BSO 5th on (I think) Telarc - I got it second-hand and am regretting the £2 expenditure

I don't know if it's been mentioned already, but Ozawa did an excellent Beethoven 9.  It's available from hmv.co.jp or cdjapan.jp.

[Daverz]

Michael-Tilson-Thomas.

I think this is the case of someone who didn't live up to early promise.  He really did some wonderful stuff early on.  Or do you not even like his earlier recordings?

[Daverz]

The ones that cause the discerning listener to consistently think "meh."

I was thinking about this question this morning. People will mention Marriner and Masur, I'm sure. And Rattle maybe. 

Marriner is often mediocre when he steps out of his metier.  Also, he just recorded too much.  But I suppose some people don't like anything he did.  I quite like his Haydn, and some of his Baroque stuff when I'm in the mood for that style of playing.

Touching on some others mentioned:

Previn made some real classic recordings in his early and middle career.   I don't think he's mediocre, just past it.  I think all those younger women just wore him out, so give him a break.

I don't have much Levine, and I'm not sure why.  I do like his Mahler; it's quite unique.  And he did some exceptionally sympathetic recordings of the 2nd Viennese School. 

I love Mehta's LAPO stuff.  Thrillingly played and recorded.  But them I'm not the most sensitive or discerning listener.  Also that Mahler 2 with the VPO is one of my favorites.

Maazel did that great recording of Prokofiev's Romeo & Juliet, some great Sibelius, and there's a lovely Mendelssohn 4th, and famous recordings of Ravel's 2 operas, but I don't have much else by him.  I'm curious about his Brahms with Cleveland.

Leinsdorf did some great Prokofiev: symphonies, concertos, R&J excerpts, and the best Kije ever.  I love his Hary Janos with the Philharmonia.

[Renfield]

I have a BSO 5th on (I think) Telarc - I got it second-hand and am regretting the £2 expenditure

Point taken.

[Tapio Dmitriyevich]

Sir Simon Rattle.

[eyeresist]

Marriner is often mediocre when he steps out of his metier.  Also, he just recorded too much.  But I suppose some people don't like anything he did.  I quite like his Haydn, and some of his Baroque stuff when I'm in the mood for that style of playing.

I was surprised and disappointed by Marriner's complete Schubert symphonies on Philips. Very lack-lustre, except a very good "Unfinished" (the original movements, not the completions). Actually, I haven't yet found a good Schubert cycle. I have Marriner and Bohm.

But them I'm not the most sensitive or discerning listener.

What a quote!

[Hector]

Poor old Erich Leinsdorf, what did he ever do to provoke such ire?

He has become the most underrated overrated conductor of our times.

Here's my list of the living, unfortunately, and the dead, good riddance:

Sinopoli,

Solti,

Barenboim,

Maazel post-1984,

Polyansky,

Hickox,

Dutoit post-OSM,

Janowski,

Steinberg.

That'll do for the present.

I do not share the already expressed views on Rattle, Marriner or Previn because I suspect their work is not entirely known to their critics, although somebody hinted about Marriner's repertoire.

[jwinter]

With so much music available on CD, and so many friendly connoisseurs on our fine forum, there's certainly no reason to listen to mediocre conductors; but a few of the names mentioned are worth further exploration, I think. 

I agree that Maazel's Prokofiev R&J & Vienna Sibelius are excellent; I also have and like 2 Wagner orchestral discs he did with Berlin, and a surprisingly good Tchaikovsky 6 on CBS Masterworks a while back.

I can't quite bring myself to totally diss Marriner, as he basically introduced me to Vivaldi and, to a lesser extent, Mozart.  I've since found conductors that I greatly prefer for both composers, but every now and then I still like to revisit the ASMF's Vivaldi.  I also liked his Schubert set a little bit better than eyeresist, though it's certainly not a top choice (I'm currently infatuated with Blomstedt's Schubert cycle, which is available as a cheap MP3 download from Amazon, but that's another thread.)

The one famous conductor who has consistently eluded me is Solti.  I've tried lots of recordings, but the only ones I care for at all are some of his Brahms and Haydn, surprisingly enough.  I actively dislike his Beethoven, Mahler, and Wagner (though I haven't heard his whole Ring) -- to me he sounds loud, aimless, and boring, as if he's trying to generate excitement but can't quite channel it to any musical purpose -- his rhythms don't flow, and he stomps around when he ought to be dancing, so to speak.  Great orchestra, but to me his CSO recordings sound rather like a middle-aged accountant trying vainly to impress by driving a Porsche.  Lots of folks love him, though, so I wouldn't really call him mediocre -- just not my cup of tea.

[hautbois]

Although his Tchaikovsky isn't bad. Particularly the Violin Concerto with Mullova is still among my favourite versions of the piece; not in the same league as my top four (Huberman, Oistrakh, Heifetz and - yes - Julia Fischer), but still a "fave".

That's probably thanks to Mullova, whom is brilliant, but his Swan Lake etc S*CKED. Sorry, but they really S#CKED.

Howard