Elliott Carter versus John Williams

[Schicksal]

Do you not even find this stirring and beautiful ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7VKAyrDm0

Third-rate Holst.

But I do like some martial scores: Patton and Battle of Britain were really first rate, thouh BofB was not that good a movie.

[71 dB]

Schicksal,

Do you not even find this stirring and beautiful ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7VKAyrDm0

Superman isn't John Williams' best moments. In fact it's mediocre. Schicksal should hear "Stored Memories and Monica's Theme" from A.I. That's NOT pompous brassy third-rate Holst. 

[Catison]

Keep in mind that John Williams writes movie scores, not symphonies.  Although they use roughly the same ensemble, they shouldn't be confused as the same genre.  Being a good film composer requires a different skill set, namely the ability to generate music very quickly and reliably.  It also requires the skill to compliment moving images and not try to distract.  Film music is a very different beast.

So I say enjoy film music for what it is, not for what it isn't.

[karlhenning]

Superman isn't John Williams' best moments. In fact it's mediocre.

That's fair.

[karlhenning]

Keep in mind that John Williams writes movie scores, not symphonies.  Although they use roughly the same ensemble, they shouldn't be confused as the same genre.  Being a good film composer requires a different skill set, namely the ability to generate music very quickly and reliably.  It also requires the skill to compliment moving images and not try to distract.  Film music is a very different beast.

So I say enjoy film music for what it is, not for what it isn't.

That's fair, too.

[greg]

But clever, nonetheless.

If you've watched enough Family Guy, you'll get the reference. 

[Mark G. Simon]

Keep in mind that John Williams writes movie scores, not symphonies.  Although they use roughly the same ensemble, they shouldn't be confused as the same genre.  Being a good film composer requires a different skill set, namely the ability to generate music very quickly and reliably.  It also requires the skill to compliment moving images and not try to distract.  Film music is a very different beast.

So I say enjoy film music for what it is, not for what it isn't.

Exactly. That's why it strkies me as so bizarre to be asked to compare Carter vs. John Williams. Carter vs. Vaughan Williams would be a strange enough comparison, but at least they both operate in the sphere of concert music.

[Joe Barron]

Exactly. That's why it strkies me as so bizarre to be asked to compare Carter vs. John Williams. Carter vs. Vaughan Williams would be a strange enough comparison, but at least they both operate in the sphere of concert music.

Yeah, but I like both Carter and Vaughan-Williams. In any event, the 70-30 split in the poll says something interesting. Just what I can't be sure, but it was Eric who set up the contest.

[Homo Aestheticus]

Yeah, but I like both Carter and Vaughan-Williams

No  Superman  for you, Joe ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7VKAyrDm0

[karlhenning]

Doesn't matter how often you toss up that youtube link, Eric.  It just isn't as "special" for everybody else as it seems to be for you.

The Carter-enjoying musical public are not going to flock to the John Williams camp, based on Superman.

Ain't gonna happen, fella.

[Joe Barron]

No  Superman  for you, Joe ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7VKAyrDm0

Well, ya know, it's OK. It's nice. It's not bad. But it's not something I'm going to sit down and listen to in my living room when I feel like listening to something, like a Haydn string quartet or a Mozart piano concerto or a Mahler symphony or Debussy's piano music --- or Carter or Boulez or Xenakis (whose music I want to explore more). I agree with the poster who said that movie music is a different animal. If I ever see Superman again, I suppose I'll appreciate what the music does for the story. But to tell you the truth, I don't like music that I have to associate with a man in tights.

And while we're on the subject, I'm getting tired of TV shows using pop songs to set a mood --- particularly cop shows, where it appears to be de rigeur during the perp walk. Jeez, people, time between commercials is precious. Write a damn scene.

I think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told how ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I'm certainly not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am.

[Homo Aestheticus]

But it's not something I'm going to sit down and listen to in my living room

And that's  exactly  what I've been doing these past 3 or 4 days and now I can't get enough of it... 

It all began last Wednesday as I was searching for information on the city of Nouakchott through YouTube where there was an advert of the Superman soundtrack. The last time I listened to this music I was around 7 years old when I first saw the film in 1978... Now I am like: "Damn, this is very fine music !"

I went out to Barnes and Noble and bought the deluxe edition.   

How did I go from my top favorites - Wagner, Debussy, Bruckner, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Richard Strauss, Tchaikovsky and Brahms to the  Superman  soundtrack ?

Jeez, what is happening to me ?

[Mark G. Simon]

I continuously marvel at the elegance and aristocratic sensuality of John Williams' Superman.

[Joe_Campbell]

I see a new signature coming...

[Wanderer]

Jeez, people, time between commercials is precious. Write a damn scene.

Yeah! 

I continuously marvel at the elegance and aristocratic sensuality of John Williams' Superman.

You forgot aesthetic radiance.

[sound67]

Erm... They compose for two entirely different genres, for different purposes...

Exactly. Another utterly useless poll.

Thomas

[Wendell_E]

Keep in mind that John Williams writes movie scores, not symphonies. 

Williams did write one:  http://www.johnwilliams.org/compositions/symphony.html

[karlhenning]

And that's  exactly  what I've been doing these past 3 or 4 days and now I can't get enough of it...

Eeeewwww. I mean, that's your trip, dude.

[karlhenning]

And while we're on the subject, I'm getting tired of TV shows using pop songs to set a mood --- particularly cop shows, where it appears to be de rigeur during the perp walk. Jeez, people, time between commercials is precious. Write a damn scene.

Excellent criticism & exhortation, mon vieux.

[Joe Barron]

,
Jeez, what is happening to me ?

You've got an ear worm. It happens to the best of us, so there's no reason it shouldn't happen to you.

You describing a phenomenon I've noticed about myself when it comes to pop music. If I come across a catchy song I like a lot, I'll listen to it over and over in a brief period of time --- a couple of weeks, even a few months. Then I'll leave it and almost never go back. Classical strikes me differently: I might not listen, say, Schubert Lieder as often in a year as I once did to Talking Heads --- back in 1981, I saw Stop Making Sense four times--- but I know I'll always return to them, whereas I haven't listened to Talking Heads in years, except for the occasional burst from the radio. It's happening now with Charles Ives, whose music I hadn't listened to in a long time. After some stimulating exchanges with Guido, I've gone back to the quartets and listened to them several times in the past week or so. I've even picked up a couple of additional recordings.