how to pronounce...

[Renfield]

I pronounce Richard "Ree-(c)hard", in approximation of what I think is the German pronunciation. Correct me if I'm wrong!

Generally, if I can approximate the proper pronunciation of non-English words, I prefer it to viciously anglicizing them; unless it's beyond my phonological means. I even go as far as to pronounce "proviso" as "pro-vee-zo", versus "pro-vie-zo", and so on (which is technically mistaken).


Incidentally, it struck me the other day that I'm unsure how many are aware of Xenakis being actually pronounced "Ksenakis", versus "Zenakis". (The italic "a" indicating where the word is intoned, as above.)

[Brünnhilde forever]

You are as close to the correct 'Richard' as most people usually get, unless they speak Arabic! That is where you find the throat-clearing ch. I think Hebrew also has the ch as in La Chaim. My apology to any Hebrew speaker here if I am mistaken!

Proviso is 'proveeso' - Latin! - not as I have heard it pronounced 'provaiso'. 

[Renfield]

You are as close to the correct 'Richard' as most people usually get, unless they speak Arabic! That is where you find the throat-clearing ch. I think Hebrew also has the ch as in La Chaim. My apology to any Hebrew speaker here if I am mistaken!

Proviso is 'proveeso' - Latin! - not as I have heard it pronounced 'provaiso'. 

Ah, good to hear. Thank you.

As for "proviso", I do think "provaiso" is an acceptable pronunciation in English-speaking contests, but I personally use it no more than I use "pryema fayshie" - that is, never. Still, you're right about the stress, it probably has to be on the "i". Cato?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

But Jezetha, where did the s come from in your pronunciation of Richard? I know there is no English equivalent for the German ch, I am sure you can come up with a solution to this one!

Ich verlasse mich auf Dich! 

Weiss ich doch, du kühne Maid... 

The Dutch pronounce Richard with a French ch... As I said, I know how to pronounce Richard the German way (and remember - the Dutch language is one of the most guttural, next to Hebrew and Arabic!), but it sounds too pedantic to my fellow Dutchmen, so I make a concession there...

[Novi]

It's a bit pedantic to pronounce Richard in the German way when you're not German. Although I can (being Dutch, and Dutch being a sister language of German), I never do. I pronounce Richard in the Dutch way (sounds like Reeshart, short ee, short art), with audible r's...)

Cool - thanks! It was only recently that I heard the 'guttural' pronunciation of Richard, and thought, oh bugger, have I been doing it wrong all these years .

Incidentally, it struck me the other day that I'm unsure how many are aware of Xenakis being actually pronounced "Ksenakis", versus "Zenakis". (The italic "a" indicating where the word is intoned, as above.)

Thanks for that, Renfield. A timely post, given that I've recently acquired my first Xenakis disk and had no idea how to pronounce the name .

[rappy]

I pronounce Richard "Ree-(c)hard", in approximation of what I think is the German pronunciation. Correct me if I'm wrong!

The i should be as short as in to rip. "Chard" sounds similiar to "chart", but don't pronounce ch like t-ch.

[marvinbrown]

I pronounce Richard "Ree-(c)hard", in approximation of what I think is the German pronunciation. Correct me if I'm wrong!

  You can pronounce Richard any which way you wish....just make sure that the next word out of your mouth is WAGNER  0:) 0:) 0:)............. !

  With regards to the pronunciation of Wagner I have seen 2 variations: (VOGNER I read this somewhere not sure where??) or (VAHGNER) I wonder if our German speaking GMG members can clarify this further??

  marvin 

[Solitary Wanderer]

Ok, here's two:

Marie d'Agoult = Marie D'go

Winterreise = Vinter-ry-see

[Kullervo]

Winterreise = Vinter-ry-see

I've always said "Vinter-rai-zuh".

[pjme]

Ok, here's two:

Marie d'Agoult = Marie D'go

Winterreise = Vinter-ry-see

In this case you can really say : Marie Dagoolt

and Corey is correct with Vinter -raih-zuh   ( even if not all Germans will pronounce that W really sharply as a V...)

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

  You can pronounce Richard any which way you wish....just make sure that the next word out of your mouth is WAGNER  0:) 0:) 0:)............. !

  With regards to the pronunciation of Wagner I have seen 2 variations: (VOGNER I read this somewhere not sure where??) or (VAHGNER) I wonder if our German speaking GMG members can clarify this further??

  marvin 

VAHGNER is correct.

But I once saw a documentary about Wagner, where a Swiss lady showed the filmmaker around in Wagner's house in Triebschen. She spoke with a strong accent, and talked about '(der) Wockner'...

[Gurn Blanston]

Of all European languages, Dutch is my stumbler. So please:

Kujiken

for starters...

My guess is KUY-kin, but I suspect I am not even close.



----------------
Listening to:
Geminiani Opus3 - Baroque Orchestra of Montreal - Geminiani Concerto grosso #2 in g Op 3 3rd mvmt

[zamyrabyrd]

Generally, if I can approximate the proper pronunciation of non-English words, I prefer it to viciously anglicizing them; unless it's beyond my phonological means. I even go as far as to pronounce "proviso" as "pro-vee-zo", versus "pro-vie-zo", and so on (which is technically mistaken).

I find myself doing the same, striding the middle between a pedantic pronunciation and blatantly Anglicizing everything. Example: "Symphonie Fantastique" said with English vowels rather than the two nasals in the beginnings of both words. "Fantastic Symphony" doesn't cut it. Also Italian words repeatedly used in music--coloratura, allegro, etc. sound funny or rather out of place when an effort is made to switch back and forth from language to another.
I wonder what non-English speakers do...

ZB

[imperfection]

  You can pronounce Richard any which way you wish....just make sure that the next word out of your mouth is WAGNER  0:) 0:) 0:)............. !

  With regards to the pronunciation of Wagner I have seen 2 variations: (VOGNER I read this somewhere not sure where??) or (VAHGNER) I wonder if our German speaking GMG members can clarify this further??

  marvin 

When you say Wagner, you're also not supposed to roll your tongue on the "r", as they do when Americans/Canadians pronounce almost everything with an -er ending. Therefore, instead of "vAHgnur", Wagner should sound like "vAHgnah". The capitalized letters indicate the stressed syllable. 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Of all European languages, Dutch is my stumbler. So please:

Kujiken

for starters...

My guess is KUY-kin, but I suspect I am not even close.



----------------
Listening to:
Geminiani Opus3 - Baroque Orchestra of Montreal - Geminiani Concerto grosso #2 in g Op 3 3rd mvmt

It's KUIJKEN, btw... The UI(J) sounds the same as the French in l'oeuil, if you know that. It's a sound only the French and the Dutch seem to have in common. The KEN part is easy - it rhymes with 'an'...

[zamyrabyrd]

When you say Wagner, you're also not supposed to roll your tongue on the "r", as they do when Americans/Canadians pronounce almost everything with an -er ending. Therefore, instead of "vAHgnur", Wagner should sound like "vAHgnah". The capitalized letters indicate the stressed syllable. 

The last time I checked, Germans pronounce the final "r". This is not as abovementioned trilled "r" as in Italian but more gutteral as in French, a bit further front. Also, I hear that the "r" differs in according to area as Swiss, Western Germany (closer to France) and Austrian.  Maybe someone can illuminate.    
Come to think of it, I knew a German speaker who used to drop final r's, hmmn....

ZB

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

The last time I checked, Germans pronounce the final "r". This is not as abovementioned trilled "r" as in Italian but more gutteral as in French, a bit further front. Also, I hear that the "r" differs in according to area as Swiss, Western Germany (closer to France) and Austrian.  Maybe someone can illuminate.    
Come to think of it, I knew a German speaker who used to drop final r's, hmmn....

ZB

'High German' speakers drop the final r. But let the native Germans here comment...

[rappy]

When you say Wagner, you're also not supposed to roll your tongue on the "r", as they do when Americans/Canadians pronounce almost everything with an -er ending. Therefore, instead of "vAHgnur", Wagner should sound like "vAHgnah". The capitalized letters indicate the stressed syllable.

This is important and correct.

[Brünnhilde forever]

AH! But there is the multitude of native Germans suffering from a very common speech impediment:

We can not pronounce the letter r at all! I say 'we' because my brother and I are one of those! For me, the letter is simply a noise way back in the throat. For consolation, this 'noise' is the way the Danish people pronounce their r! There is justice after all! 

[zamyrabyrd]

AH! But there is the multitude of native Germans suffering from a very common speech impediment:

We can not pronounce the letter r at all! I say 'we' because my brother and I are one of those! For me, the letter is simply a noise way back in the throat. For consolation, this 'noise' is the way the Danish people pronounce their r! There is justice after all! 

In singing, final r's in German are pronounced, so this might be cause for confusion. Any rumble in the back of the throat (as with French r's as well) need to come forward.

ZB