Gong and Other "Prog" Rock

[bwv 1080]

I have no clue what prog actually means in regards to any band after 1980

If it refers to incorporating a wide range of eclectic influences into compelling music then it is hard to beat Mr. Bungle in that regard

If you want 10 minute songs with cosmic-type themes then go with 70s Yes

but if you want 10 minute songs about accidental autoerotic axphyxiation deaths then Mr. Bungle is the way to go

[Dr. Dread]

Yes. Bungle was awesome. Patton should quit that other shit he's doing and put Bungle back together.

[sul G]

Oh, and there's some Faust on Spotify too, though not much. Faust IV is the most important one they have - Giggy Smile, which sounds like and is just a simple, laid back little number, illustrates the point I was trying to make above: it's actually in 13, or in alternating 6 and 7s. But it sounds fresh and, flowing and entirely natural, not laboured in the slightest. It's the real deal, without any of the self-conscious I sense in other prog.

[RussellG]

Is the "Caravan" you list the David/Richard Sinclair group?

Yes, that's the one.  I have In The Land of Grey and Pink and Waterloo Lily.

[RussellG]

Does Rush count? Because I dig me some Rush. 

So do I, although despite sounding proggy in places, I think they have a niche entirely to themselves - "Canadian Power Rock". 

[snyprrr]

GOBLIN!!!

[gomro]

There seems to be an interest in prog-rock here so let's have a thread about it.

I have Gazeuse! and really dig it. So I'm currently looking for other Gong recommendations. I also own Camembert Electrique but haven't dug in yet.

Of course, Daevid Allen's Gong is very different from Pierre Moerlin's Gong, which is the version you have. Allen's take on the band was much more psychedelic; when he left and Moerlin took over, it became a fusion band with a vengeance. Try Downwind if you like Gazeuse.  For Daevid Allen, you've got one of the two starters; the other is You.

I just got the 7th album by Canadien madmen Miriodor, Avanti!; imho this is their best disc ever, and certainly one to try if you like the more avant side of things. Sample it HERE:
http://www.cuneiformrecords.com/bandshtml/miriodor.html

[Dr. Dread]

Of course, Daevid Allen's Gong is very different from Pierre Moerlin's Gong, which is the version you have. Allen's take on the band was much more psychedelic; when he left and Moerlin took over, it became a fusion band with a vengeance. Try Downwind if you like Gazeuse.  For Daevid Allen, you've got one of the two starters; the other is You.

I just got the 7th album by Canadien madmen Miriodor, Avanti!; imho this is their best disc ever, and certainly one to try if you like the more avant side of things. Sample it HERE:
http://www.cuneiformrecords.com/bandshtml/miriodor.html

The samples sound very good. Thanks.

[Kullervo]

Yes, you picked up on my underlying point, and I think some of your other points connect with my feelings too. So, for instance, re the 13/8 (or whatever) my gut feeling is that in most of prog rock this sort of thing is done because it's supposed to be sophisticated, virtuosic, extravagant. But it's applied from 'outside' as it were, and to my ears rarely sounds spontaneous. Where a band like Can score in this respect is that they were much more inside the tradition of irregular meters. Drummer Jaki Liebezeit - who is frequently, almost routinely, voted 'best drummer ever' (or he used to be when I read this sort of music press  ) - came from an eastern European background. Additive rhythms such as 13/8 and the like were in his blood, he could play the most complex things with one hand, and the music flows naturally in them. There's none of the clunkiness one too often gets when British bands try similar things.

Likewise, where British prog bands often drew membership from ex-Royal Academy students (etc.) (and remembering that at the time this was the sort of environment that fostered virtuosity but not necessarily truly cutting-edge thinking) 50% of Can's basic line-up were Stockhausen pupils. Now, it's not a necessity to be at the cutting edge, of course, but I think that there's a discrepancy between purpose ('progressive....') and reality in many prog bands, and I don't see it at all in Can or Faust who really were about as extreme and focused as one can imagine.

Re Zappa - I agree with what James says, but I'd go further: the best I've heard Zappa musicians sound is when they weren't playing with the Mothers but with a blinding, laser-light around which to gel. I'm thinking of Bunk Gardner on Tim Buckley's finest hour, the highly experimental Starsailor. Now here is a voice the like of which never came again, at the peak of his ability, performing the most outrageous songs. But the voice ignites the band, and the songs are all 5 minutes or less, clearly organised little wonders. This central spark and this cohesion is what I personally feel a lot of prog lacks.

For those with Spotify (Guido!) - I urge

Tim Buckley - Starsailor (try Monterrey first, or go soft with Song to the Siren. The title track is the most extreme)

Can - Ege Bamyasi - Can at their best, but with shortish, tightly focused songs.
Can - Tago Mago - Can finest, most extreme album. Ege Bamyasi's style, but looser, more far-out
Can - Monster Movie - Can's first album, the only complete album with their original vocalist Malcolm Mooney. Stripped right down to a steely minimum, there's no excess fat here at all, not even on the 20 minute Yoo Doo Right (like a minimalist classic - and really it is very close to this - it doesn't feel 20 minutes long).
Can - Future Days - Can's fifth, maybe their most sonically luxuriant. But I feel they began to lose focus around here.

and

Holger Czukay - Canaxis - Can's bassist, pre-Can, steals into Stocky's studio at night, without permission, and invents sampling. The opening track, Boatwoman Song, with its mysterious, summer-night-fragrant melding of medieval French polyphony and Vietnamese keening, is one of the tracks which haunts my life.


I must add the obligatory IMO to all the above, of course. But I feel it quite strongly!

As someone that owns a Future Days t-shirt, I endorse this post. 

[Dr. Dread]

I think I owned Future Days. Maybe I didn't listen hard enough. 

[sul G]

Labelling groups is a tricky job - Can aren't really prog at all, if by prog we mean what I think of as prog  . They are a much leaner, more focussed, more extreme outfit than prog-as-I-think-of-it tends to be. But they do share more general characteristics - complexity, virtuosity, experimentation, extended forms, classical influence/training etc. etc. - which makes it just about possible to see them under the same general bracket. The slick, spick and span Future Days, however, seems to me to have less in common with prog than the two most central Can albums, the gloriosuly wild and scuffed-up Ege Bamyasi and (above all) Tago Mago. Those are where I'd point you first.

[Kullervo]

One of their more "typical" songs (if "typical" is a word you can describe this band ):

http://www.youtube.com/v/49PvnYCKZkM&fmt=18

[Kullervo]

Soon Over Babaluma is also worth hearing I think, if only for the extended tracks at the album's end. "Quantum Physics" is the closest they ever came to ambient music.

[Dr. Dread]

Think I had Tago Mago too. Again, should have listened harder.   

[sul G]

@ Corey, re Soon Over Babaluma - Yes, I always preferred that one to the more well known Future Days - it sounded more 'real' in a way.

There's some fantastic can on youtube, isn't there! I hadn't looked before. Including large chunks of TM and EB. That's my afternoon sorted, then.   Nice choice of Oh Yeah, btw - a good slice of Damo, sounding much the same backwards as forwards!

[sul G]

There's some fantastic can on youtube, isn't there! I hadn't looked before.

oh no, hang on, I think my brother gave me most of this stuff as flv files once. Mother Sky live, though! And Paperhouse....!

Never seen this one though - is that the inside of Schloss Norvenich i see? 

http://www.youtube.com/v/wkRczBPRbCk&fmt=18

[Dr. Dread]

I think if you are using electric instruments and a drum kit, you're going to have the word "rock" attached to you regardless.

[Kullervo]

Oh, I don't know if they've been mentioned, but I really like The Soft Machine's first two albums, Robert Wyatt's solo albums, Henry Cow and Slapp Happy.

Some Henry Cow, with singer Dagmar Krause in a nicer mode:

http://www.youtube.com/v/Rg5i0OcEOyE

[Dr. Dread]

Oh, I don't know if they've been mentioned, but I really like The Soft Machine's first two albums, Robert Wyatt's solo albums, Henry Cow and Slapp Happy.

Some Henry Cow, with singer Dagmar Krause in a nicer mode:

http://www.youtube.com/v/Rg5i0OcEOyE

Daevid Allen from soft machine started Gong.

[sul G]

Luke is this representative of their thing??...

LOL - in part - to the extent that one track of Zappa can be said to represent him! But there's huge variety in their sound, and I'd recommend a good wallow in their first four or five albums to get into their sound.

Trust me on this one James, you'd be doing yourself a favour! - Can are one of the great bands, and of their time and ilk are really the only ones comparable to the Mothers in skill, power and edginess; they're equally influential, too - let me just give you allmusic.com's potted history/critique of the band to give you an idea:

lways at least three steps ahead of contemporary popular music, Can were the leading avant-garde rock group of the '70s. From their very beginning, their music didn't conform to any commonly held notions about rock & roll -- not even those of the countercultures. Inspired more by 20th century classical music than Chuck Berry, their closest contemporaries were Frank Zappa or possibly the Velvet Underground. Yet their music was more serious and inaccessible than either of those artists. Instead of recording tight pop songs or satire, Can experimented with noise, synthesizers, nontraditional music, cut-and-paste techniques, and, most importantly, electronic music; each album marked a significant step forward from the previous album, investigating new territories that other rock bands weren't interested in exploring.

Throughout their career, Can's lineup was fluid, featuring several different vocalists over the years; the core bandmembers remained keyboardist Irmin Schmidt, drummer Jaki Leibezeit, guitarist Michael Karoli, and bassist Holger Czukay. During the '70s, they were extremely prolific, recording as many as three albums a year at the height of their career. Apart from a surprise U.K. Top 30 hit in 1978 -- "I Want More" -- they were never much more than a cult band; even critics had a hard time appreciating their music.

Can debuted in 1969 with the primitive, bracing Monster Movie, the only full-length effort to feature American-born vocalist Malcolm Mooney. 1970's Soundtracks, a collection of film music, introduced Japanese singer Kenji "Damo" Suzuki, and featured "Mother Sky," one of the group's best-known compositions. With 1971's two-record set Tago Mago, Can hit their visionary stride, shedding the constraints of pop forms and structures to explore long improvisations, angular rhythms, and experimental textures.

1972's Ege Bamayasi refined the approach, and incorporated an increasingly jazz-like sensibility into the mix; Future Days, recorded the following year as Suzuki's swan song, traveled even further afield into minimalist, almost ambient territory. With 1974's Soon Over Babaluma, Can returned to more complicated and abrasive ground, introducing dub rhythms as well as Karoli's shrieking violin. 1976's Unlimited Edition and 1977's Saw Delight proved equally restless, and drew on a wide range of ethnic musics.

When the band split in 1978 following the success of the album Flow Motion and the hit "I Want More," they left behind a body of work that has proven surprisingly groundbreaking; echoes of Can's music can be heard in Public Image Limited, the Fall, and Einstürzende Neubauten, among others. As with much aggressive and challenging experimental music, Can's music can be difficult to appreciate, yet their albums offer some of the best experimental rock ever recorded.