John Corigliano

[Guido]

Fair enough.

You seem to be saying though that this is just your opinion and not some absolute rule by which some composers are and aren't classical music which is decent of you at least.

I think you should give Lutoaslwaski another chance - his cello concerto and piano concerto are both masterpieces which are difficult not to love... I'm sure that it would make you revalue him. I can't imagine that you rejected him based on just one piece.

[paulb]

Fair enough.

You seem to be saying though that this is just your opinion and not some absolute rule by which some composers are and aren't classical music which is decent of you at least.

I think you should give Lutoaslwaski another chance - his cello concerto and piano concerto are both masterpieces which are difficult not to love... I'm sure that it would make you revalue him. I can't imagine that you rejected him based on just one piece.

I may have been decidedly unfair in my dis-missing out of hand, Lutoslwaki, based on one work. You are are in the right.

I went to your tube and there watched a   28 second clip of his concerto for oboe and harp. Holloger conducting.
I like very much what i heard.
I will proceed with that work and the 2 you recommend.
Thank you for the suggestion. See we can all learn something new.
I may even try other pieces by Ligeti down the road and other composers  i have had no luck with. I'm sure you would say , definetly yes to the concerto for harp and oboe, correct?
GO TO PAGE 2 on this link, 3rd selection from bottom:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=search_videos&search_query=lutoslawski&search_


What i like in composers is disonnance  and  originality, but with influences of other composers i love. IOW I hear Elliott Carter as continuing the Schonbergian modalities.
btw you should read the excellent commentary on Schonberg by one member, Felszemu, aka Wolfie, over at amazon

http://www.amazon.com/tag/classical%20music/forum/ref=cm_cd_ef_tft_tp?%5Fencoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx2O5YQ79OVJBUQ&cdThread=Tx1R0JOJTT4LBT3&displayType=tagsDetail

very insightful into the ever shifting nature of Schonberg.

I just placed 2 cds from Lutoslawski on wish list
latest DG release of the pc, has 2 other works on it, and  the  2 cd set from Philips,

Thanks

[Guido]

This is a video of the last two minutes of the cello concerto by Lutoslawski - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iudtvUpu3f4 played by Yo-Yo Ma. A superb performance.

Make sure you get the Rostropovich recording of the Lutoaslawski concerto coupled with the Dutiilleux concerto - the two concertos are both masterpieces and amongst both composer's finest and most important works. Also this CD has Rostropovich playing at his absolute best, which means its nothing short of astonishing.

Anyway, this thread has been thoroughly derailed.

I haven't heard that oboe and harp concerto but that screetching at the end sounds mental. Intriguing piece though - I will look into it.

[paulb]

This is a video of the last two minutes of the cello concerto by Lutoslawski - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iudtvUpu3f4 played by Yo-Yo Ma. A superb performance.

Make sure you get the Rostropovich recording of the Lutoaslawski concerto coupled with the Dutiilleux concerto - the two concertos are both masterpieces and amongst both composer's finest and most important works. Also this CD has Rostropovich playing at his absolute best, which means its nothing short of astonishing.

Anyway, this thread has been thoroughly derailed.

I haven't heard that oboe and harp concerto but that screetching at the end sounds mental. Intriguing piece though - I will look into it.

There's things i don't like about this clip  of the cello concerto.
And with me, if there's just one tiny section that doesn't work well for me, its a doubtful  case.
I'm like that.

[Guido]

Rather you than me. 

[paulb]

Rather you than me. 

I guess i should at least try to explain
there's is this logic involved, one thing leads up to the next with the cello playing a  cascade of notes where one follows right after the other, to where after one listen i know exactly what to expect on next hearing.
take Vaughan Williams 7th sym which i am listening to. Not his finest, yet still there's this freshness about the work after knowing it for yrs now. Nothing revolutionary in the 7th, yet displays that character of beautiful motifs and cressendos that Vaughan Williams is known for. There's authenticity and authority in vaughan Williams. I don't get this inspirational sense from the cello concerto, its too programmed.

We'll see about the concerto for harp and oboe when it arrives.

[Dundonnell]

Anyone else heard this CD?

Bit of a mishmash of styles-not surprising really considering it is a work whose component parts have been put together over 39 years!

Some of it is quite powerful, others seem rather trite but would be interested to hear other opinions.

[Ugh!]

Do it.

[Dundonnell]

Do it.

Assuming that was a recommendation I have just ordered the cd

[Dundonnell]

In January Naxos will be releasing Corigliano's Symphony No.3 "Circus Maximus" played by the University of Texas(Austin) Wind Ensemble for whom the work was composed.

I have read a bit about the work on Corigliano's publishers' website and see that Bruce was actually at the premiere

Any comments on the work, Bruce? (I have read the Musicweb review btw-just wondered if you had anything to add, like-should I buy it )

(Naxos is also releasing Corigliano's teacher, the American Romantic composer Vittorio Giannini's Symphony No.4 and Piano Concerto.)

[bhodges]

Hey, thanks for reading the review, and for posting the info about the excerpt on the publisher's website--I hadn't seen that! 

Not sure what else I can add, since I only heard the piece once.  My impression was positive, but I am sure that part of the impact was the physical placement of the musicians, who were scattered all over Carnegie Hall.  In addition to those onstage, there were small groups in the back, upstairs, and even a marching band that entered down one aisle--all very theatrical.  People in the audience were turning their heads, grinning, trying to see where the latest sounds were coming from.

Afterward, I did want to hear it again, which to me is always one criterion (not the only one) for whether a piece succeeds or not.  Corigliano uses a wide variety of techniques, and the piece was very entertaining--again, an impression on just one hearing. 

If you are liking what Corigliano you've heard, and like the wind instrumentation, I would definitely consider it.

--Bruce

[Dundonnell]

Thanks for the (incredibly rapid) response

I shall (of course!) buy the cd I do collect American symphonies....but I am not quite sure what to make of Corigliano I don't sense much genuine depth in his music; it seems to be going more for effect/impact on the listener rather than appealing either to the intellect or to the soul, if you understand my meaning.

Still...at Naxos prices...!!

[bhodges]

I think I know what you mean about Corigliano.  Some of his work I've enjoyed immensely (e.g., Chiaroscuro, for two pianos tuned a quarter-tone apart) but others have left me cold.  I would have to hear this one again to really weigh in with much substance.  But I'm glad to know that this piece is being released on disc (and will probably get it myself).

--Bruce

[Ugh!]

Not sure what else I can add, since I only heard the piece once.  My impression was positive, but I am sure that part of the impact was the physical placement of the musicians, who were scattered all over Carnegie Hall.  In addition to those onstage, there were small groups in the back, upstairs, and even a marching band that entered down one aisle--all very theatrical.  People in the audience were turning their heads, grinning, trying to see where the latest sounds were coming from.

Picking up where Stockhausen and George Ives left off, it seems to me that this is where classical music simply does not let itself translate well to any recording medium. It reminds me of attending Kontakte with Stockhausen, watching (and hearing) him pan the sounds between the 8 speakers and realizing that although I had heard the piece on CD and LP, I had not really heard it before.

[bhodges]

Picking up where Stockhausen and George Ives left off, it seems to me that this is where classical music simply does not let itself translate well to any recording medium. It reminds me of attending Kontakte with Stockhausen, watching (and hearing) him pan the sounds between the 8 speakers and realizing that although I had heard the piece on CD and LP, I had not really heard it before.

I had a similar experience a few weeks ago, hearing two recordings of Gruppen with friends.  Although it was a great afternoon--my first encounter with the piece--I really wish I could hear it live, for exactly the reasons you mention.

--Bruce

[Dr. Dread]

Should I buy this?

[rickardg]

Well, I like it but that might not mean a lot to you. And Dundonnell might be right

I don't sense much genuine depth in his music; it seems to be going more for effect/impact on the listener rather than appealing either to the intellect or to the soul, if you understand my meaning.

I wouldn't know profundity if it hit me between the eyes, impact is good enough for a philistine like me

[Dr. Dread]

Well, I like it but that might not mean a lot to you. And Dundonnell might be right
I wouldn't know profundity if it hit me between the eyes, impact is good enough for a philistine like me

Thanks Rickard. If it makes you feel any better, Fanfare magazine liked it.

[rickardg]

Oops, I messed up the link, I wanted to post this slightly more extensive review

This is turning out to be a new favourite of mine. I like the mid-part best where the ominous "Blowing in the Wind" (How many roads must a man walk down? Corigliano's music seems to suggest a very large number indeed as opposed to Dylan's stroll around the block.) is followed by a suitably violent "Masters of War" and a deliriously confused "All along the Watchtower". The postlude "Forever Young" is a serene cathartic ending. The remaining songs ("Clothes Line" and "Chimes of Freedom") don't grip me that much but it could be because I don't know the lyrics as well.

I wondered how the soprano voice could sound so relaxed and intimate even in the more dramatic passages, a perusal of the notes reveals that the part is specified as 'amplified soprano'.

Also, your avatar makes it feel a bit strange having this conversation... :-)

[Dr. Dread]

Also, your avatar makes it feel a bit strange having this conversation... :-)