Greatest 20th Century Symphonies

[vandermolen]

Oh? Are we supposed to name only three symphonies? And are they really supposed to be "deep" - whatever that may mean? In that case, my shortlist might be:

Vaughan Williams 3 `A Pastoral'
Vaughan Williams 5
Vaughan Williams 6

Or a non-RVW list:

Nielsen 5
Tubin 6
Holmboe 8

Or a not-to-Northern shortlist:

Vermeulen 2
Brian 1 `Gothic'
Simpson 9

Or an even-more-Latin shortlist:

Honegger 3
Braga Santos 3
Guarnieri 3

Which only makes twelve in total  

I would agree with just about all these choices, although the Simpson still eludes me (No 1 is my favourite of his), I would go for BS Symphony No 4, although No 3 is also magnificent, especially the last movement. Holmboe's 7th Symphony stands very high in my estimation. Vermeulen (in my 'complete edition'   )I will listen to again today. Tubin's 1st, 2nd and 4th are my favourites.

[Vlad]

So, when you people have listed all the symphonies of the 20th Century, this thread will die...

Gustav Mahler, Symphony #6
Gustav Mahler, Symphony #9
Witold Lutoslawski, Symphony #2

[mahler10th]

Brian 1   
Sibelius 7   
Rautavaara 5   
Martinu 4   
Mahler 9   
RVW 6   
Rangstrom 1   


West Ham 3 
Ajax 2 

Green Bay Packers 32   
New York Jets 14   

[vandermolen]

West Ham 3 
Ajax 2 

Green Bay Packers 32   
New York Jets 14   

Chelsea 2
Everton 1

[Guido]

Shostakovich No. 10 - my pick for the single best symphony of the century ... I blew a couple fuses in my brain when I realized just how brilliantly Shostakovich had woven a "motto" theme into this symphony [not the DSCH theme, though that appears for the first time here] - making the previous "motto theme poster child," Rachmaninov's Second, utterly obsolete (and invoking some pretty direct comparisons). In that respect this is the culmination of the entire Russian symphonic tradition ... I think ...

Can you expand on this?

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Yes, where and when would have Shostakovich encountered the Elgar First outside of perusing a score?

I know he was allowed occasionally to visit the West: during which visit might this have happened?

This won't answer your question, but Elgar does actually get played in Russia from time to time. In the last two concert seasons, I've noticed performances of both concertos and the Piano Quintet, and the 1st Symphony will be played later this year. In fact, I think Elgar gets played here more than Bruckner does.

At least one major Russian conductor (Svetlanov, I think) has recorded some Elgar.

[karlhenning]

Yes, where and when would have Shostakovich encountered the Elgar First outside of perusing a score?

I know he was allowed occasionally to visit the West: during which visit might this have happened?

I don't (yet?) have a firm answer.  But Elgar's First Symphony enjoyed enviable immediate success, 100 performances in the first year of its existence (1908), and it may well have made its way to Petersburg before the war.

[Dundonnell]

I don't (yet?) have a firm answer.  But Elgar's First Symphony enjoyed enviable immediate success, 100 performances in the first year of its existence (1908), and it may well have made its way to Petersburg before the war.

It did! But it would be unlikely(?) that Shostakovich heard it in the years prior to war breaking out in 1914 since he would only have been eight years old then.

[karlhenning]

It did! But it would be unlikely(?) that Shostakovich heard it in the years prior to war breaking out in 1914 since he would only have been eight years old then.

Yes, he was yet just a pup.  I mean, if the piece already has a performance history before he attended the Conservatory, at least there's groundwork for plausible familiarity.  England was an ally during the war, and the Tsar and George V were relatives.

[Dundonnell]

Yes, he was yet just a pup.  I mean, if the piece already has a performance history before he attended the Conservatory, at least there's groundwork for plausible familiarity.  England was an ally during the war, and the Tsar and George V were relatives.

With respect, Karl........Britain was an ally

[karlhenning]

So emended, esteemed Colin 

[71 dB]

This won't answer your question, but Elgar does actually get played in Russia from time to time. In the last two concert seasons, I've noticed performances of both concertos and the Piano Quintet, and the 1st Symphony will be played later this year. In fact, I think Elgar gets played here more than Bruckner does.

At least one major Russian conductor (Svetlanov, I think) has recorded some Elgar.

I'm not surprised about this since Elgar's musical language isn't that different from Russian classical music. I just wish the 2nd symphony got performed too since it's an overlooked masterpiece.

[eyeresist]

I'm not surprised about this since Elgar's musical language isn't that different from Russian classical music. I just wish the 2nd symphony got performed too since it's an overlooked masterpiece.

Maybe Shosty was actually refering to the cello concerto? If that was a symphony, I think it would qualify for this thread.

[vandermolen]

I have a CD of Elgar's Second Symphony played by the USSR Symphony Orchestra under Svelanov - it is a fine, if rather unidiomatic, performance, featuring the braying Soviet horns etc. Well worth investigating if and when it is back in circulation.

[71 dB]

Maybe Shosty was actually refering to the cello concerto? If that was a symphony, I think it would qualify for this thread.

I don't get it why people admire the cello concerto so much while looking down the mighty symphonies.

[karlhenning]

I don't get it why people admire the cello concerto so much while looking down the mighty symphonies.

In my case, it is because when I listen to the Cello Concerto and to the symphonies, I find much more to admire in the concerto.

[DavidRoss]

In my case, it is because when I listen to the Cello Concerto and to the symphonies, I find much more to admire in the concerto.

Mine, too.  To me his VCC is one of the most sublime achievements in music of the 20th Century, speaking to my soul of faith, yearning, joy, and most powerfully of loss, of the end of innocence and a state of grace that can never be reclaimed.  His symphonies, by comparison, are but trifling entertainments.  Is there anyone on earth besides Poju who honestly regards either of them as among the noblest musical utterances of that incredible century?

[71 dB]

In my case, it is because when I listen to the Cello Concerto and to the symphonies, I find much more to admire in the concerto.

Yeah but why? For me it's the other way around. In my opinion people DO get the concerto but they are completely lost with the symphonies. Elgar himself was confused about why the reception of the 2nd symphony was so lukewarm. People just don't get those symphonies, especially the 2nd. I don't know why. Apart from Gerontius people are completely lost with Elgar's oratorios too.

[Lethevich]

Yeah but why? For me it's the other way around. In my opinion people DO get the concerto but they are completely lost with the symphonies.

Personally, I find the concerto says just as much in a shorter and more concise form. I also prefer the thinner scoring. I also prefer the violin concerto to the symphonies at the moment, as I feel the soloist gives some much-needed focus and impetus, which is a slight difficulty I have with the symphonies.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Mine, too.  To me his VCC is one of the most sublime achievements in music of the 20th Century, speaking to my soul of faith, yearning, joy, and most powerfully of loss, of the end of innocence and a state of grace that can never be reclaimed.  His symphonies, by comparison, are but trifling entertainments. 

While I won't say the symphonies are better than the Cello Cto., I find them rather more than "trifling entertainments." Indeed, they are deep and multifaceted works, more emotionally and structurally complex than the CC. I can understand, however, why some people have trouble with them.