Beethoven's Late Piano Sonatas... Who Reigns Supreme?

[Holden]

Holden,

Could you let me know what Richter performances you would burn on those CDs. I have a few of his late ones on a Phillips set, but I confess I am woefully ignorant of Richter's different performances and where to find them.

I suspect that George's PM will probably answer my question, however my choices would be:

Op 101 - Moscow, 10 October 1965

Op 106 - Aldeburgh, 11 June 1975 (some may prefer the Prague version but this is excellent.)

Op 109 - Leipzig, 28 November 1963

Op 110 - Leipzig, 28 November 1963

Op 111 - Leipzig, 28 November 1963

[prémont]

No one reigns supreme here. With more than sixty different recordings at my disposal I have quite a problem to choose, but I would say that Backhaus (both cycles), Arrau (both cycles), Kempff (both cycles) , Barenboim (EMI) and Serkin (Sony Hammerklavier) are the ones, who do the most for me in these works. I never cared much for the insensitive Pollini. Brautigam has recently released his Hammerklavier, have not heard it yet.

[Mandryka]

No one reigns supreme here. With more than sixty different recordings at my disposal I have quite a problem to choose, but I would say that Backhaus (both cycles),  . . .

Is the mono cycle still around anywhere?-- I'd love to hear it but I just can't find it.

The rumor is that he recorded them in the 50s and nixed their release.  Supposedly the recordings are sitting in EMI's vaults.  

I forgot to mention this before -- if you don't already know it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhfautOThho

[George]

Is the mono cycle still around anywhere?-- I'd love to hear it but I just can't find it.

I forgot to mention this before -- if you don't already know it:

It's been uploaded at Demonoid.

[George]

I forgot to mention this before -- if you don't already know it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhfautOThho

Wow, what a treasure! Thanks!

Interestingly, like Backhaus he plays the fast movement on the slow side and the slow is played on the fast side.

[prémont]

Is the mono cycle still around anywhere?-- I'd love to hear it but I just can't find it.

I do not know for sure. Got mine 3 - 4 years ago (an Italian Decca release) from a Japanese web site, which Todd knows. It was also available as a Japanese release. I have not used the site since, as postage costs were too great IMO.

[Mandryka]

Wow, what a treasure! Thanks!

Interestingly, like Backhaus he plays the fast movement on the slow side and the slow is played on the fast side.

I know -- it is such a shame that no Cortot Beethoven cycle has ever been available. We need to all lobby Ward Marston to publish it.

Tahra produced a CD of Cortot playing Beethoven's 1st Piano Concerto, I think. Did anyone try it?

[zauberflöte]

I see no mention of Mitzuko Uchida's recent survey. Anyone hear it? I enjoy her Mozart and Schubert.

[Mandryka]

It's been uploaded at Demonoid.

But if that download really is what it says it is then the sound is just superb -- when did he record the mono cycle.

I see no mention of Mitzuko Uchida's recent survey. Anyone hear it? I enjoy her Mozart and Schubert.

I don't like her Schubert (bland) or her Mozart (perfect trills; no depth)

But I saw her do the last three Beethoven sonatas a few years ago in the Festival Hall and she was very good. Tasteful.

But really not as good as Richter or Levy or Arrau or Gould or . . .

I haven't heard the CD though.

[George]

But if that download really is what it says it is then the sound is just superb -- when did he record the mono cycle.

1950-1954

I am certain that that download is what it says it is. I compared a number of sonatas to the stereo and it sure sounds like Backhaus. 

[jlaurson]

I see no mention of Mitzuko Uchida's recent survey. Anyone hear it? I enjoy her Mozart and Schubert.

"Great Pianists, Great Expectations"

Finally, Mitsuko Uchida, an undisputed ivory-goddess in Mozart and mildly controversial, genial Schubert player, takes to Beethoven's late sonatas – covering similar territory as Alfred Brendel and Radu Lupu, pianists she heard and admired as a young pianist in London. There are not many pianist who don't tread in the late Beethoven Sonatas – not all come back to tell the tale. It is no secret that I zealously favor Maurizio Pollini's breathtaking, mountain-climbing, chiseled, vertical accounts over just about anything everything else. I try and try again, but few other pianists really tickle my fancy as much in these works. Not Arrau (Philips), not Ashkenazy (Decca), not Brendel (Philips), not Gilels (except his Hammerklavier - DG), not Gulda (Brilliant / Decca), not Kempff (mono or stereo, DG), not Kurti (Analekta), not Richter (Russia Disc). I was very pleasantly surprised by an old Philips recording with the now-unknown Hans Richter-Haaser (on March 4th, 1969 he was the soloist in the NSO's first performance of Mozart's Piano Concerto No.# 25, by the way) of sonata no.28 (op.101), but opp.109-111 are not to be had, with him. (Actually, there was an old Columbia recording [33CX1666] with his op.110 and 111 out once... if he is as nonchalantly un-bothered, regal, cool, weightless in these as in no.28, I want to hear them on CD! Testament, where are you?)

Along comes Mitsuko Uchida and much to my delight manages to stand out of the crowd of sublime superstar disappointments. Sonata no.30, op. 109, starts dreamy and well-loved – a good deal softer than even Chopin would sound in Pollini's hands... it's Debussy-like. But we haven't wishy-washy Beethoven here, just a contemplative one. It is the highlight of the disc, I would say, after having listened to it on and off for well over half a year. It very nearly lifted the recording onto the Best of 2006 list, too... where I could also have extolled the virtues of her last movement of op.110 which has a contagious rhythmic, almost bouncy, feeling that startles at first and then immediately delights. Finally, the luxurious and deep, weighty variations in op.111 were the stuff that allowed me to stop thinking about Pollini while listening to them. (I used to always feel a vague sense of guilt during those works when played by the hands of others; perhaps like lying with a woman but thinking about another...) Uchida put an end to that with playing that is sufficiently different if not better (but musically 'informed' and technically flawless) – and her release shows that we can expect more Beethoven from her with great hope – especially as her playing might be even better suited to the earlier sonatas.

Alas, the follow up, incl. and especially the Hammerklavier, was unadulterated disappointment.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

...or her Mozart (perfect trills; no depth)

wrong

[Mandryka]

wrong

Well -- tell me a couple of sonatas which you think are outstanding in the set and I'll listen again.

[admiralackbar74]

No one reigns supreme here. With more than sixty different recordings at my disposal I have quite a problem to choose, but I would say that Backhaus (both cycles), Arrau (both cycles), Kempff (both cycles) , Barenboim (EMI) and Serkin (Sony Hammerklavier) are the ones, who do the most for me in these works. I never cared much for the insensitive Pollini. Brautigam has recently released his Hammerklavier, have not heard it yet.

premont, I'm surprised to see you mention Barenboim (EMI) for the last five sonatas. While I enjoy that set (my first one), I find the late sonatas to be a bit "sloppier" than some of the earlier pieces. But, then again, I really like Pollini in most anything and you find him insensitive in these works. Fair enough!

What, in particular, do you enjoy about Barenboim in these works? I'd like to take your thoughts into consideration as I listen again in the future.

[Holden]

premont, I'm surprised to see you mention Barenboim (EMI) for the last five sonatas. While I enjoy that set (my first one), I find the late sonatas to be a bit "sloppier" than some of the earlier pieces. But, then again, I really like Pollini in most anything and you find him insensitive in these works. Fair enough!

What, in particular, do you enjoy about Barenboim in these works? I'd like to take your thoughts into consideration as I listen again in the future.

Barenboim EMI does very well in the Hammerklavier and his Op 111 is excellent and approaches my favourite - the Arrau - for beauty and transendence in the Arrietta

[admiralackbar74]

I'll have to listen again. Thanks for the comments!

[Mandryka]

I just listened to a couple of Backhauss mono sonatas and I think they are more lively and playful.

The ones I listened to were Opus 2/3 (very good) and Opus 14 /2.

I am looking forward to exploring more.

Are there any earlier Backhauss Beethoven sonata recordings -- pre war?

[George]

I am now listening to Ernst Levy's Hammerklavier, a work that I must say I have never loved, and his performance is making me love it. A wonderfully romantic reading. The slow movement is sublime.

[George]

I just listened to a couple of Backhauss mono sonatas and I think they are more lively and playful.

I think so too, although only slightly so. His Beethoven is remarkably consistent and solid.

Interestingly, the mono set was recorded in Victoria Hall, Geneve 1953 - the exact same location that the stereo set was recorded - 15 years later in 1968.

Are there any earlier Backhauss Beethoven sonata recordings -- pre war?

I imagine that Pearl or one of the other Historical labels would have released them if there were any.

[mjwal]

This is a fascinating discussion, and I am grateful for the inspiration and illumination it has provided. Unfortunately I lack more than rudimentary score-reading facility and have to take most of what is said in that respect on trust. - I have not gone back to the Pollini recordings (which I have on LP) for years; I don't know if that is significant...(Perhaps I should shell out for the CDs & listen again). I imprinted on Schnabel's 111, it is the ultimate for me, but all of his Beethoven is for me hors pareil. I have been transfixed by Richter's Melodiya recordings of opp.109-111 as made available on Brilliant recently. I will add the Prague op.106 to make a set of 4... The recording that represents for me the totally alternative view of opp.109-111 is Egon Petri's (I have not been able to hear his Hammerklavier): they achieve an ideal of lambent clarity, dispensing with drama or rhetoric. I have never seen a CD of these performances. I love the Solomon recordings, but I miss the ultimate freedom in his playing sometimes: they do not possess what the philosopher Ernst Bloch (a great meditator on musical matters) called the spirit of utopia.
If anybody wishes to hear where op.111 can be taken, the Variazioni e un pianoforte meccanico by Clarence Barlow (Hat) are as if Beethoven's Arietta were played by the unholy trinity of Art Tatum, Cecil Taylor & Frederick Rzewski in the Bardo.