Emma Kirkby

[Rod Corkin]

That was really funny mon general.

Well I suggest you appologise to Mark for wrecking his topic. But if this topic is only for the 'Kirkby fan club' it should have been titled to reflect that. I could easily demonstrate Kirkby's inferiority, and in fact have done at my site in the past, but it seems the GMGer mindset is not tollerant of contradiction without things turning nasty. On matters such as this talk on its own is very cheap gentlemen..

[Rod Corkin]

When I look at Mayhem (I would post but every post reads like a treatise, I really don't have what it takes to contribute there ) I see the two disagreeing as much as they agree.  I think that you can trust Sorin to speak his mind.

I know only too well you haven't got what it takes. But as for the British honours system, I would scrap it tomorrow.

[Tsaraslondon]

Oh how I wish there were an ignore option on this site. Then I'd never have to read the rantings of certain individuals ever again!

[Rod Corkin]

Oh how I wish there were an ignore option on this site. Then I'd never have to read the rantings of certain individuals ever again!

Don't refer to Harry like that if you don't mind. But in any case that is a short sighted remark, if people had the option to ignore certain individuals then a lot of topics would cease to have any cohesion as viewers and posters would all be seeing different things. I know the truth of it because I have seen such a facility in operation elsewhere. Basically when you introduce that you kill the forum. An easier method is to simply develop the maturity to accept that not everyone is going to agree with everything you write.

[Tsaraslondon]

An easier method is to simply develop the maturity to accept that not everyone is going to agree with everything you write.

A statement with which I wholeheartedly agree. I also wish people would practice what they preach.

[Harry]

Don't refer to Harry like that if you don't mind. But in any case that is a short sighted remark, if people had the option to ignore certain individuals then a lot of topics would cease to have any cohesion as viewers and posters would all be seeing different things. I know the truth of it because I have seen such a facility in operation elsewhere. Basically when you introduce that you kill the forum. An easier method is to simply develop the maturity to accept that not everyone is going to agree with everything you write.

Rod my friend, I don't think he was refering to me, you cunning fellow!

[zamyrabyrd]

The problem with special, identifiable timbres, like character actors, they work in certain contexts and in others, not. Renee Fleming's cultivation of a "double cream" timbre (that she mentions in her book) gets a little gooey when clarity is needed. Cutting out the lower resonance is limiting with men who sing in the treble. After all, women contraltos DO have a sultry register to use when needed!!

A near vibrato-less tone works with plainchant and Renaissance music, that is, as long as we don't know how it actually sounded like. Where Kirkby becomes nearly inaudible in the "Exultate" is around D and E above middle C. Not so with Te Kanawa. The saying is "if you don't use it, you lose it".

Also, I get a little suspicious about the packaging, like using Baroque paintings, etc., to make you feel like you are in an "antique" atmosphere, even when they are off by 100-200 years or so.
ZB

[Joe_Campbell]

I was just doing some of required listening for my music history course, and I came across this recording:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3wAarmPYKU

Then I saw this thread! Thought I'd share...I certainly found the performance striking.

[Rod Corkin]

A statement with which I wholeheartedly agree. I also wish people would practice what they preach.

That statement from me was directed to you in particular. I suggest you start practicing yourself, pronto.

[Rod Corkin]

A near vibrato-less tone works with plainchant and Renaissance music, that is, as long as we don't know how it actually sounded like. Where Kirkby becomes nearly inaudible in the "Exultate" is around D and E above middle C. Not so with Te Kanawa. The saying is "if you don't use it, you lose it"

Are you referring to Kirkby as vibrato-less here? If so I assure you such cases are in the minority, I have many recordings whereby her warbling is most distracting. And that in addition to her thin tone is often terminal to a performance. On rare occasions she can control her giggling schoolgirl tendencies, but alas more often than not she cannot.

[Elgarian]

What a terrible shame. This thread began as an invitation to appreciate the immense contribution of Dame Emma Kirkby (for it is indeed immense by any standards, regardless of whether one does or does not 'like' her voice), and look at what it has become - a battleground for the expression of personal attacks and curmudgeonly grumbles. And even by choosing not to remain silent, I'm aware that I am myself now contributing further to the drift away from the intention of the thread.

Let's just imagine for a moment that she might happen to browse through GMG one day and stumble on this thread. Or perhaps a friend of hers might? Would we be happy about that? Or would we be ashamed? (The questions are rhetorical: I'm not requesting opinions.)

[bhodges]

What a terrible shame. This thread began as an invitation to appreciate the immense contribution of Dame Emma Kirkby (for it is indeed immense by any standards, regardless of whether one does or does not 'like' her voice), and look at what it has become - a battleground for the expression of personal attacks and curmudgeonly grumbles. And even by choosing not to remain silent, I'm aware that I am myself now contributing further to the drift away from the intention of the thread.

Let's just imagine for a moment that she might happen to browse through GMG one day and stumble on this thread. Or perhaps a friend of hers might? Would we be happy about that? Or would we be ashamed? (The questions are rhetorical: I'm not requesting opinions.)

Very well put.  (And as a further reminder, GMG posts do show up in Internet searches, so it's not so far-fetched to think that she might find this.)

PS, I listened to a few of those YouTube links, and thought, what a beautiful voice.  But if I've said it once, I've said it a million times: voices are a very personal thing. 

--Bruce

[Rod Corkin]

What a terrible shame. This thread began as an invitation to appreciate the immense contribution of Dame Emma Kirkby (for it is indeed immense by any standards, regardless of whether one does or does not 'like' her voice), and look at what it has become - a battleground for the expression of personal attacks and curmudgeonly grumbles. And even by choosing not to remain silent, I'm aware that I am myself now contributing further to the drift away from the intention of the thread.

Let's just imagine for a moment that she might happen to browse through GMG one day and stumble on this thread. Or perhaps a friend of hers might? Would we be happy about that? Or would we be ashamed? (The questions are rhetorical: I'm not requesting opinions.)

How melodramatic of you Elgarian. The original post was as follows "Whatever you think about the British Honours system, surely you'll agree that Dame Emma Kirkby has earned hers?"

It appears many of you have not noticed there is a question mark at the end of that sentence. I stated myself she may deserve it for services to the UK music industry, but if the poster is asking whether she deserves it for being a great soprano I said she does not, it is all as simple as that. Everything else you have witnessed is the usual paranoid crap you get at this forum.

[Xenophanes]

Dame Emma Kirkby is by no means my favorite soprano, either, but she sings quite well, flexible, good diction, and generally on pitch.  Here's a good example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0xbY-50NAw

[Sorin Eushayson]

Well of course you are well in line with your Super General on Mayhem, you must be, otherwise you will loose your stripes. Tongue
Walk the line huh?

Well I question his motives Erato, that's obvious, right?

I saw this coming a mile away.  I wasn't thrilled with Ms. Kirby's voice before joining CMM, if that helps at all.  If anything it is our similar tastes that enables me to endure Mr. Corkin more than most!    Why the hostility toward CMM, though?  We've always been inviting to those of contrasting opinions.  I know I'd love to see your posts in some of my Berwald or Mozart topics, Harry!

When I look at Mayhem (I would post but every post reads like a treatise, I really don't have what it takes to contribute there ) I see the two disagreeing as much as they agree.  I think that you can trust Sorin to speak his mind.

Thank you, David.  Don't be afraid to jump right in over there, though!  

I must agree, however, that this is a venue for personal opinion related to Emma Kirby, not personal attacks.  I'm not a moderator here, but I think I can spot when something's going off-topic...

[Tsaraslondon]

That statement from me was directed to you in particular. I suggest you start practicing yourself, pronto.

But I was being entirely reasonable. I found myself in the unenviable position of defending a singer I don't particularly like, against your unjust comments. You may not like her, Rod. I can't say that I do much, but that is something completely different from saying she is a poor singer. She has her limitations (what singer doesn't?), and ZB has pointed out that the voice doesn't really sound in the notes around middle C, which makes her unsuitable, to my ears, for the music of Mozart. On the other hand her precision in coloratura is impressive, and she doesn't resort to the dreaded aspirate as Bartoli does, so, no, she is not a bad or a poor singer. Personally I prefer a larger voice with more overtones, but this is my preference. Those who like and enjoy Emma Kirkby are perfectly entitled to do so.

[Tapio Dmitriyevich]

PS, I listened to a few of those YouTube links, and thought, what a beautiful voice.  But if I've said it once, I've said it a million times: voices are a very personal thing.

Probably as easy as that. I'm no expert at voices and cannot criticize techniques; least I can say is, I like her singing very much in baroque and earlier music.

[Rod Corkin]

Personally I prefer a larger voice with more overtones, but this is my preference.

So basically you in fact agree with me.

Those who like and enjoy Emma Kirkby are perfectly entitled to do so.

And where did I say otherwise?

[Tsaraslondon]

I give up

[The new erato]

I give up

Rod doesn't understand the differnce between absolutes (ie being right) and preferences (ie liking), or the difference between objective and subjective. Fat news to anyone who's been around here for some time.