Wildest/most extreme harmony?

[Guido]

What are the wildest examples of harmony you can think of composed before 1900?

By Bach two instantly spring to mind - the Sarabande from the fifth suite for solo cello which is an incredibly austere and pained utterance resembling contemporary music, containing all twelve semitones, and not one instance of double stopping. One wonders what his contemporaries thought of this one? The other one by Bach is the Musical Offering, specifically the Ricercare which is just unbelievably chromatic throughout.

Another amazing piece is Gesualdo's Moro, lasso al mio duolo which lurches wildly through different completely unrelated chords (in traditional tonality) in an astonishing way and really does sound like music composed in the early part of the last century in many sections - it's really very beautiful too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY0mLVDW4Cs&feature=related

(How does one embed videos?)

What else is there that people can think of?

[greg]

Which Madrigal is that? I want to look at the score.
Those first two chords sound like Bruckner- something like a I-bVI, though I haven't actually tested it yet. One of my favorite harmonic progressions.  0:)

Also, I assume we won't mention Wagner or Liszt, since those are too obvious?...

[greg]

William Billings's Jargon (1778) is a remarkable thing.

"Let horrid Jargon split the air
and drive the Nerves asunder.
Let hateful Discord greet the ear
as terrible as Thunder."'

Ahhhh... I like the sound of that.  0:)

[val]

The Chaos in Haydn's Creation.

The Prelude of Rheingold, most part of Tristan und Isolde in special 2nd and 3rd acts.

Liszt:  Trauergondel 1 & 2 / Via Crucis

Schumann:  Gesange der Frühe, in special the first and third pieces.

[Sergeant Rock]

Which Madrigal is that? I want to look at the score.

It's called Moro, lasso, al mio duolo. It's one of the twenty-three works in Gesualdo's Sixth Book of Madrigals.


Sarge

[Luke]

ooh, where to start!

There are the famous examples - the Chaos by Jean-Fery Rebel which starts which a cluster chord; the Battaglia by Biber which is ear-splittingly dissonant at times; the modulating-through-all-the-keys-through-enharmonic-contortions numbers of the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book (especially when played in an original, non ET temperament!)...there will be dozens of things like this. And then, to go even further back, some of the Ars subtilior pieces I'm sure I once sent you verge on the poly-modal, it seems to me, simply by dint of the fact that their lines are essentially moving in different tempi much of the time.

Of course, as val points out, late Liszt - in any number of examples. But I know that you are perfectly well aware that, pre-1900 is so close to the pivotal proto-atonal works of e.g. Bartok, Ives, Schoenberg and his clan, Reger, Busoni (the Elegies are really interesting works in this respect) and even little oddball things like Decaux's Clairs de lune. Extend your limit forwards by a mere 5 or 10 years and all manner of things start to happen! I guess that's why you chose that date, though!

[greg]

It's called Moro, lasso, al mio duolo. It's one of the twenty-three works in Gesualdo's Sixth Book of Madrigals.


Sarge

Thanks. I'll check it out.

[karlhenning]

I think the most extreme harmony is a single pitch . . . .

[greg]

ooh, where to start!

There are the famous examples - the Chaos by Jean-Fery Rebel which starts which a cluster chord; the Battaglia by Biber which is ear-splittingly dissonant at times; the modulating-through-all-the-keys-through-enharmonic-contortions numbers of the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book (especially when played in an original, non ET temperament!)...there will be dozens of things like this. And then, to go even further back, some of the Ars subtilior pieces I'm sure I once sent you verge on the poly-modal, it seems to me, simply by dint of the fact that their lines are essentially moving in different tempi much of the time.

Of course, as val points out, late Liszt - in any number of examples. But I know that you are perfectly well aware that, pre-1900 is so close to the pivotal proto-atonal works of e.g. Bartok, Ives, Schoenberg and his clan, Reger, Busoni (the Elegies are really interesting works in this respect) and even little oddball things like Decaux's Clairs de lune. Extend your limit forwards by a mere 5 or 10 years and all manner of things start to happen! I guess that's why you chose that date, though!

Oh... my... God...
Luke, you're my hero! 

So, I found videos of the first two...
and found what I've been wanting to find forever now.

Examples of 17th century atonality and clusters! 

I was trying hard to imagine why absolutely NO composer of this time would ever experiment with such a thing- I mean, one or two in a hundred years would make sense, but none wouldn't. Looks like I was right- I just didn't know where to look. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/VK13g3twALc


http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/BC2oaSAToRE

[Guido]

Than for all these suggestions Luke, ', and Val... I'll get hunting!

I'm reminded of Ives' wistful wish that any composer of the past had written 'just one strong chord' not allied to any key - if only he had known - maybe he would have felt that he had a kindred spirit, an ally across the ages...

[Guido]

This Battalia piece is just fantastic!!! I really want to play it! I obviously also need to hear more Biber...

Love that the Cahos was written by someone called Rebel! Amazing too.

I was aware of the wildness of late Liszt, though not of individual pieces. Trauergondel 1 I like very much.

Of course, as val points out, late Liszt - in any number of examples. But I know that you are perfectly well aware that, pre-1900 is so close to the pivotal proto-atonal works of e.g. Bartok, Ives, Schoenberg and his clan, Reger, Busoni (the Elegies are really interesting works in this respect) and even little oddball things like Decaux's Clairs de lune. Extend your limit forwards by a mere 5 or 10 years and all manner of things start to happen! I guess that's why you chose that date, though!

Yes you are right - the first decade of the 20th century is just extraordinary in this regard (and in Ives' case the 1890s too), which is why I cut it off where I did. Haven't heard the Busoni Elegies before, but they certainly are interesting (and quite lovely). Haven't heard much Reger either. The Decaux I know and love, and Ives, Bartok, Schoenberg etc. I obviously love too.

[Josquin des Prez]

I think the most extreme harmony is a single pitch . . . .

Now you are just plagiarizing Rob.

[snyprrr]

Wouldn't we be cutting this off at Late Faure?

[Guido]

By late Fuare we've already had The Rite, Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, Scriabin, Ives, Ornstein, Scriabin etc. etc. We all know about these guys already.

[Superhorn]

  Bruckner's unfinished 9th symphony contains some truly daring harmonies which anticipate the 20th century. The wild scherzo almost sounds like Bartok at times.  The climax of the slow movement contains
agonizing dissonance.

[Josquin des Prez]

Personally, my favored form of "extreme" harmony is in the early micropolyphonic works of Ligeti. Just because its extreme it doesn't have to be cacophonous or "wild". 

[jochanaan]

Here are a few examples "hiding in plain sight" among accepted masterpieces:

Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, last movement, the second appearance of the Presto: the first chord contains every note of the D harmonic minor scale!

Chopin, Opus 28, Prelude #2 in A minor: the tonality never becomes clear at all until the last harmonic cadence.

Bruckner, Ninth Symphony, third movement: the final climax ends on another every-note-in-the-scale chord, completely unresolved.

[Ten thumbs]

Whilst i there are clear examples as given of extreme harmonies in well known works, it is clear that harmony in general was becoming more and more dissonant during the nineteenth century. You can find this in works by, say Alkan or Mussorgsky or for that matter Fanny Hensel (in March from Das Jahr there is a chord that seems to represent Christ's crucifixion consisting of a second inversion C# minor chord in the bass with A + Fx above, or take the heart-breaking dissonances in the closing cadence of Op8 no3.)

[Dax]

One of Liszt's is called Dry bones.

You don't believe me do you?

Here it is. [Ossa arida]. A terrible old recording I'm afraid.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/0gj09p

[Ten thumbs]

Everything "wild" here is rendered a pretty tame experience next to Bach's harmonic insight & profundity...

Obviously you prefer domestic cats to tigers. I think you would find it very difficult to justify your statement analytically, profound as Bach's music is.