Advice on works presently considering exploring

[Sean]

These caught my attention from the library presently using, all new to me-

Rimsky-Korsakov Tsar Saltan (what's the flight of the bumblebee like in its original setting?)
WFBach complete keyboard works (I know one already, full of character)
Guerrero Requiem- I'm familiar with a somewhat boring polyphonic mass by this late 16th c master
Dhomont- electronics fantasizing (Jonty Harrison is one of the few 'composers' in electroacoustic worth a mention)
Pettersson- Double violin sonatas
Part- Miserere & Te Deum
Gal- complete orchestral works (sure, the Serenade is memorable)
Rihm- Lieder (what curious kind of useless gibberish can it be?)
C.Schumann- complete piano works
Baird- orchestral works (I know his early Bartokian PC)

[marvinbrown]

These caught my attention from the library presently using, all new to me-

Rimsky-Korsakov Tsar Saltan (what's the flight of the bumblebee like in its original setting?)

  Funny you should mention that work Sean  ! As hard as I tried I could not find a complete recording of that opera.....perhaps someone here can help both of us find a COMPLETE recording Rimsky-Korsakov's illusive work.

  marvin

[jochanaan]

...C.Schumann- complete piano works

You've heard her A minor Piano Concerto, I suppose?  I have, and it's a fine piece, more tightly constructed than her husband's and in the same key.  I've also heard her unfinished F minor Piano Concerto, but I'm not quite as enthusiastic about it.  Still, I'd be interested to know what you think of her solo work; I suspect it's pretty good.

Incidentally, Fanny Mendelssohn-Henselt's Piano Trio in D minor, Opus 11, is as fine a piece as anything her brother ever wrote.

[Josquin des Prez]

Incidentally, Fanny Mendelssohn-Henselt's Piano Trio in D minor, Opus 11, is as fine a piece as anything her brother ever wrote.

First you talk about rap as being "awe inspiring", now this. jochanaan is losing it.

[Novi]

  Funny you should mention that work Sean  ! As hard as I tried I could not find a complete recording of that opera.....perhaps someone here can help both of us find a COMPLETE recording Rimsky-Korsakov's illusive work.

  marvin

Right here, marvin!

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,42.msg74775.html#msg74775

[CD]

Rihm- Lieder (what curious kind of useless gibberish can it be?)

Good to see someone so unprejudiced and discerning. ¬_¬

[some guy]

Dhomont's one of the pioneers. And at 83, he's still blazing trails.

And while I agree that Jonty is one of the good ones, I'd say that he's one of the many good ones. Smalley, Nelson, Barrett, Groult, Bokanowski, Ferrari, Oswald, Normandeau, Calon, Gobeil, Brümmer, Cline, Simpson, Ferreyra, Bedard, Mandolini, Reith, Dufort, Tremblay, shall I go on?

[The new erato]

Good to see someone so unprejudiced and discerning. ¬_¬

This insightful thread from my favorite music blogger, about listening into the music and evolving one's own listening abilities, comes to mind:

http://www.overgrownpath.com/2009/11/lost-art-of-listening.html

Let's just say that some are better at that, than others!

[karlhenning]

Rihm- Lieder (what curious kind of useless gibberish can it be?)

Good to see someone so unprejudiced and discerning. ¬_¬

Busted! ; )

[karlhenning]

First you talk about rap as being "awe inspiring", now this. jochanaan is losing it.

Not that we should let the facts interfere with your bone-headed prejudices; but have you actually heard (or, better still, played) the D minor Piano Trio, Opus 11, which jochanaan has thus praised?

No, I thought not.

As I browse through the book How to Talk About Books You Haven't Read, I think of you, you hopeless sot.  Thanks for the ongoing laughs!

[CD]

This insightful thread from my favorite music blogger, about listening into the music and evolving one's own listening abilities, comes to mind:

http://www.overgrownpath.com/2009/11/lost-art-of-listening.html

Let's just say that some are better at that, than others!

That was a nice article, thanks. I read him fairly regularly but somehow missed it.

[val]

Sean

Rimsky-Korsakov Tsar Saltan (what's the flight of the bumblebee like in its original setting?)

Yes, it represents the Prince Gvidon, changed in a bumblebee tormenting his Aunts and the Czar, in the 3rd Act.

There is a very good version, with Ivanovsky and Petrov, conducted by Nebolssin (1955).

[Josquin des Prez]

Not that we should let the facts interfere with your bone-headed prejudices; but have you actually heard (or, better still, played) the D minor Piano Trio, Opus 11, which jochanaan has thus praised?

Yes i did, by two different performers no less (Dartington Trio and Trio Bentano). It is awkward, sterile and amateurish. Everything about it has this sense of disjointness and its full of hesitations, like somebody who was trying to imitate Felix without having a clear idea of how to do it besides raw technical mimicry. Anybody who thinks this lesser counterfeit is as good as the original needs to check themselves in the head.

[Luke]

The WF Bach will be great, Sean. He was one incredible composer! The Polonaises are just superb, possibly the greatest single set of keyboard music of their interestingly-poised time (IIRC Brahms thought extremely highly of them). The Fantasias too, are occasionally stupefying pieces, as indeed are some movements of the sonatas... WF's blend of superb technique (daddy's oldest boy....), unorthodox and sometimes shocking harmony, perverse rhythmic subtleties, wilful melodic lines, in general the most extreme empfindsamer stil one could encounter, combined with as solid and comprehensive a set of contrapuntal skills as one will find in a composer of this time (and acknowledged as such by his contemporaries)....yes, there's great stuff here.

The Part - the Te Deum is one of my least favourite Part pieces, the Miserere one of my favourites. The general rule of thumb with Part, for me, is that the earlier tintinabuli stuff is the most compelling, the most powerful. I've said this on previous Part threads; I think it's a view that others around here share. He hit upon this method of composing which just works, in its own right, and which is, in that own right, as perfect as a musical style can be, from every angle. Unfortunately, he was then condemned to either repeat himself or to develop the style further. He took this latter course - how could he not? - with the result, to my ears that his more recent music is comparatively disappointing. The Te Deum is better than this, I think, but it's less compelling than e.g. the earlier Stabat Mater or the Passion. The Miserere, by my own rule of thumb, ought to be similarly disappointing - but I love it!! It succeeds by strength of character, and is perhaps the most obviously dramatic and passionate of Part's tintinabular works.

[Sean]

Hi jochanaan (& Josquin & Karl), yes I know the Clara concerto and Fanny trio- I wouldn't compare either of them to the more famous examples but they certainly widen the picture of both forms at the time; the Felix Mendelssohn trios are lightweight but rise above the average with their freshness and invention...

some guy, well we can argue over the trivialities of electroniana some other time; I know only Dennis Smalley of the names you mention; I guess there's the Harvey Vivo plango piece.

val, thanks for that sensible comment- where would I be without you? The version in the library here is indeed the one you mention.

By the way there's two more operas here I want to borrow asap- do you know Giordano's Fedora or Erkel's Hunyadi Laszlo?

[Sean]

Hi Luke, appreciate the thoughts there, maybe indeed I should invest some time in this repertory: the only keyboard piece of WF's I've heard before is the Double harpsichord sonata op.10, which did really stay with me and made me want to explore more. I have persevered with a few CPE works including the Wq.63 set but I didn't find them so inspired.

Your descriptions sound exactly like what I remember (along with three other orchestral pieces of his I've got hold of)- I guess you've persuaded me...

Re Part, yes there are some choral pieces that work in very similar idioms, as with the Tavener case, and thus I haven't bothered with him for a long while; the likes of Im Spiegel and Tabula are amazing though- and you're saying the Miserere is one of such tintinabular works...

Cheers.

The WF Bach will be great, Sean. He was one incredible composer! The Polonaises are just superb, possibly the greatest single set of keyboard music of their interestingly-poised time (IIRC Brahms thought extremely highly of them). The Fantasias too, are occasionally stupefying pieces, as indeed are some movements of the sonatas... WF's blend of superb technique (daddy's oldest boy....), unorthodox and sometimes shocking harmony, perverse rhythmic subtleties, wilful melodic lines, in general the most extreme empfindsamer stil one could encounter, combined with as solid and comprehensive a set of contrapuntal skills as one will find in a composer of this time (and acknowledged as such by his contemporaries)....yes, there's great stuff here.

The Part - the Te Deum is one of my least favourite Part pieces, the Miserere one of my favourites. The general rule of thumb with Part, for me, is that the earlier tintinabuli stuff is the most compelling, the most powerful. I've said this on previous Part threads; I think it's a view that others around here share. He hit upon this method of composing which just works, in its own right, and which is, in that own right, as perfect as a musical style can be, from every angle. Unfortunately, he was then condemned to either repeat himself or to develop the style further. He took this latter course - how could he not? - with the result, to my ears that his more recent music is comparatively disappointing. The Te Deum is better than this, I think, but it's less compelling than e.g. the earlier Stabat Mater or the Passion. The Miserere, by my own rule of thumb, ought to be similarly disappointing - but I love it!! It succeeds by strength of character, and is perhaps the most obviously dramatic and passionate of Part's tintinabular works.

[Maciek]

Baird's is the type of modernism you're usually not fond of, but I'd give him a try anyway. What exactly does the disc contain (and who's playing)? The Olympia and Polskie Nagrania discs are all very good, but the Signum one isn't (IMHO) - the performances are quite uninspired.

[marvinbrown]

Right here, marvin!

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,42.msg74775.html#msg74775

  NOVI  0:) 0:) 0:) you are an angel!! Thank you so much for that link.  I just downloaded the 3 operas (The Tsar Saltan, Christmas Eve and The Tale of the Invisible City and the Maiden Fevronia) and can't wait to hear them.

  thank you so much, I owe you one!

  marvin

[some guy]

some guy, well we can argue over the trivialities of electroniana some other time; I know only Dennis Smalley of the names you mention; I guess there's the Harvey Vivo plango piece.

I'd rather argue over the profundities of elecroniana myself. (And you do know that admitting that you only know Dennis Smalley of the names I mentioned means that you cannot in good conscience claim that Harrison is "one of the few...worth a mention or one of the many worth a mention." You'd need to know a few more of the many before you could know who the few are, at the very least. )

[Sean]

Maciek, the Baird pieces are Psychodrama and Tomorrow on an Olympia CD recorded 1980...

Marvin, the Rimsky-Korsakov operas are a remarkable expressive corner of exquisite sweet sugar and fairy tale settings with little character development; the Invisible city though is a bit different, more serious and mysterious and with parallels with Prokofiev's Fiery Angel and its soundworld.

some guy, I've explored electronics wanderings, some quite good actually (special mention for Westerkamp) by these among others-

ALBRIGHT, William (1944-  American)
AUSTIN, Larry (1930-  American)
BABBITT, Milton (1916-  American)
BAYLE, Francois (1932-  French)
BOULEZ, Pierre (1926-  French)
CAGE, John (1912-92 American)
GOEYVAERTS, Karel (1923-93 Belgian)
MADERNA, Bruno (1920-73 Italian)
NONO, Luigi (1924-90 Italian)
NORDHEIM, Arne (1931-  Norwegian)
PARMEGIANI, Bernard (1927-  French)
POUSSEUR, Henri (1929- Belgian)
SCHAEFFER, Pierre (1910-95 French)
STOCKHAUSEN, Karlheinz (1928-2007 German)
SUBOTNIK, Morton (1933-  American)
VARESE, Edgar (1883-1965 French/ American)
SZYMANOWSKI, Karol (1882-1937 Polish)
WESTERKAMP, Hildegard (1946-  Canadian)