Great Ugly Pieces

[greg]

Not to me; they are beautiful, evocative and very well written masterpieces.

"Exotic" may even be a good word for these.

[Josquin des Prez]

I'm sure Schoenberg would have taken any comment regarding the ugliness of his music as nothing less then a compliment. Now, Webern, he may have gotten offended.

[Franco]

I'm sure Schoenberg would have taken any comment regarding the ugliness of his music as nothing less then a compliment. Now, Webern, he may have gotten offended.

What you don't know but are sure about would fill the Grand Canyon.

[Teresa]

MOSSOLOV   Iron Foundry
ANTHEIL  Ballet Méchanique
BARTOK:  The Miraculous Mandarin
IVES   Robert Browning Overture
RUGGLES   Sun-Treader
HINDEMITH  Kammemusik  (6 concertos)
not a memorable "hum-this-while-ironing" tune in that bunch, but I'd welcome a live performance.

I agree with Ruggles' Sun-Treader, a really exciting piece of ugly music.  I didn't like Antheil's Ballet Méchanique but I would agree it is quite ugly.  However I love Bartok's The Miraculous Mandarin and not a single note sounds ugly to me.  The Robert Browning Overture does border on ugliness, I haven't heard the other two works.

My favorite ugly composition is Messiaen's  Turangalîla-Symphonie which is to me the most profoundly beautiful ugly music I've ever heard.  It is also very moving and exciting.  And it has that really cool early electronic instrument the ondes martenot .

[mc ukrneal]

When some of you wrote in earlier posts that things might get ugly, I had no idea!   

[abidoful]

Most of Alban Berg is kind of uggly but still in  many ways attractive...

[listener]

I've heard it twice now, an awful Mravinsky recording and Furtwängler conducting
Hindemith: Die Harmonie der Welt- Symphony.    I don't want to hear it in a longer version with voices now, i.e. the opera.   
(maybe it's not "great", just ugly?)

[The new erato]

I've heard it twice now, an awful Mravinsky recording and Furtwängler conducting
Hindemith: Die Harmonie der Welt- Symphony.    I don't want to hear it in a longer version with voices now, i.e. the opera.   
(maybe it's not "great", just ugly?)

Ugly that? Well, not to my ears certainly. And the opera is very beautiful.

[False_Dmitry]

My favorite ugly composition is Messiaen's  Turangalîla-Symphonie which is to me the most profoundly beautiful ugly music I've ever heard.  It is also very moving and exciting. 

Beauty is in the ear of the beholder

[The new erato]

My favorite ugly composition is Messiaen's  Turangalîla-Symphonie which is to me the most profoundly beautiful ugly music I've ever heard.  And it has that really cool early electronic instrument the ondes martenot .

I do agree with that.

It is also very moving and exciting.

I do disagree with that. I've heard it live twice, and to me it's just plain boring and mainly exciting if you mistake exciting for loud. Of all composers I've ever heard, Messaen is the one to so not click with me. And I've got the DG 32 disc complete edition and struggles with it from time to time.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Of all composers I've ever heard, Messaen is the one to so not click with me. And I've got the DG 32 disc complete edition and struggles with it from time to time.

Having 32 CDs of a composer you don't like - I wonder if that's a record for this forum.

[The new erato]

Having 32 CDs of a composer you don't like - I wonder if that's a record for this forum.

Music is about evolving ones taste, not seeking refuge in the familiar (NB) all the time. At least to me, what I've learnt to appreciate the hard way is always the more valuable......but Messiaen has been a struggle for 30 years, though I like his piano music quite a bit better than the orchestral music.

[False_Dmitry]

I do agree with that.
I do disagree with that. I've heard it live twice, and to me it's just plain boring and mainly exciting if you mistake exciting for loud. Of all composers I've ever heard, Messaen is the one to so not click with me. And I've got the DG 32 disc complete edition and struggles with it from time to time.

I'm really surprised by that?  But each to his own!  Personally I find there are intensely intimate and erotically lyrical moments in it - it's only "loud" in a few isolated sections.  But then I like Messiaen anyhow,  so we probably have different tastes, or different ears?  It would be a boring world if we all thought the same

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

It does raise the question though - at what point do you give up? 30 years waiting for that breakthrough is quite a long time. Especially when there is a ton of other music to explore.

[The new erato]

It would be a boring world if we all thought the same

Truly.

It does raise the question though - at what point do you give up? 30 years waiting for that breakthrough is quite a long time. Especially when there is a ton of other music to explore.

Good question. I put on some Messiaen a couple of times a year to see if something has heppened, usually not.  Doesn't mean I don't accept he is a great composer, he just seems to hit my blind spot.

[snyprrr]

I do agree with that.
I do disagree with that. I've heard it live twice, and to me it's just plain boring and mainly exciting if you mistake exciting for loud. Of all composers I've ever heard, Messaen is the one to so not click with me. And I've got the DG 32 disc complete edition and struggles with it from time to time.

You've convinced me. Now that I think about it, I've had the same problem with Messiaen (besides on how to spell his name!!). I'll add Xenakis' electronic music, too. But, yea, Turangalila has its longeurs. ZZZzzzzz.......

I do like Expecto, though,... maybe the brass and percussion.

Also, his bird music can be hard to listen to.



Which brings me to one of my pet peeves: really load, piercing, metallic tones that are designed to 'tweak the boursh-wag-zee', a la the 60's.

[The new erato]

Why on earth would you buy 32 discs of a composer who's music so does NOT click with you?!?! 

Chalk it up to that wine cellar again?

There must be dsomething there....or the Norwegian Viking spirit; new horizons to conquer....

[The new erato]

Heck, I like Messiaen ... and I have like 10 or 12 discs.

I know you do.  And one of the reasons I persevere is that there's lots of people I respect claiming it's great. If anybody had played Boulez to me 30 years ago, I doubt I would have got it, either.

[The new erato]

Sounds like rampant consumerism.

Probably guilty as charged, like most people here. Who needs more than 3 Handel operas anyway? 

[Scarpia]

I know you do.  And one of the reasons I persevere is that there's lots of people I respect claiming it's great. If anybody had played Boulez to me 30 years ago, I doubt I would have got it, either.

Didn't spring for the DG complete edition, but I did end up with the Warner super-bargain box with about 15-20 CDs of Messiaen from the Erato and Teldec back catalog.  I've yet to make a dent in it, though.  My experience with Messiaen is mainly some of the orchestral music, which seemed rather weird.  I'm ready to take a shot at it, when I find the time.