Wagner One Ring to rule them all...

[Brahmsian]

I'd like to hear some thoughts of others who have listened to part or all of the DVD 'Copenhagen Ring'?

I've rented and watched Das Rheingold, and thoroughly enjoyed the modernized production.

[knight66]

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,10950.20.html

Here is a link to a thread discussing it.

Alan, A great and thoughtful post. I know what you mean about suspicion of one's own reactions in Wagner. I used to have problems sitting through Walkure Act 2, but then saw the prom with Pappano/Domingo.Terfel. Suddenly I was engaged fully and time did flow by.

But I have sympathy with the view that Wagner can be a bore. I don't think anyone can make three quarters of the first act of Siegfried other than a bum-numbing experience for me.

I would happily half the length of Meistersingers. I last saw it at the Edinburgh Festival and could not wait to get half way through the final act.

Clearly we have no real hard core Wagnerarians haunting the site on a regular basis. There are however two who post nowhere but on Wagner threads and tend to intervene around 'now', simply to set up the altar and condemn the faithless.

Mike

[DavidRoss]

Alan, A great and thoughtful post.

Hear, hear...as usual.  Just as when discussing Elgar's VC or Pre-Raphaelite painting, your thoughtful and measured contribution encourages one to give it another go bearing your generous point of view in mind.    How blessed we are to find such wonderful teachers just a mouse-click away! 

[karlhenning]

Hear, hear!

[DarkAngel]

Elgarian
have you looked into getting a used copy of this 2 CD companion to Solti Ring............

Many people think very highly of it for giving deeper understanding of the music, said to be easy for anyone to follow and clearly explained, perhaps someone who owns it can comment

In addition to the 2 CD companion discussion set there is also the DVD above which documents the recording sessions for the Solti Ring...........perhaps both need to be purchased for the complete Solti experience.

[Brahmsian]

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,10950.20.html

Here is a link to a thread discussing it.

Great.  Many thanks, Mike! 

[mc ukrneal]

Elgarian
have you looked into getting a used copy of this 2 CD companion to Solti Ring............

Many people think very highly of it for giving deeper understanding of the music, said to be easy for anyone to follow and clearly explained, perhaps someone who owns it can comment

I find it quite useful. It is not something to just listen to straight through, but it can help understand the thing better and the use of examples (quite extensive ones at that) is quite helpful. I recently bought the book Wagner's Ring by M Owen Lee and I hope that will add something as well.

[Brahmsian]

I recently bought the book Wagner's Ring by M Owen Lee and I hope that will add something as well.

Great, great book.  I found it very useful in giving me a better understanding of The Ring.  I should read it again.

[Elgarian]

In addition to the 2 CD companion discussion set there is also the DVD above which documents the recording sessions for the Solti Ring...........perhaps both need to be purchased for the complete Solti experience.

Thanks DA. Yes, I have Cooke's 2CD guide to the Ring; and I have The Golden Ring DVD; and I have Culshaw's book - which I've read many times over the years, even though I didn't own the Solti recording itself until last week!

The Cooke set is excellent - brilliant, actually. My problem is that  I listen and follow everything ... but afterwards the themes tend to muddle together and I so easily forget which is which (except for the very easy, obvious ones); and this happens no matter how many times I listen to the Guide. Well that's OK, I think - the leitmotives aren't there to be analysed, but to generate subliminal musical messages (or so I tell myself) - and in any case the Cooke Guide is a pleasure to revisit in its own right.

I find The Golden Ring film (which is really only concerned with the recording of Gotterdammerung portion of the series), like Culshaw's book Ring Resounding, inspiring and enormously enjoyable. Even after all these years, I keep revisiting them at intervals.

For more general reading, I also have Donington's Jungian dissection of the Ring (Wagner's Ring and its symbols), but, with the best will in the world, I only usually understand about 10% of what I read there, even on a good day. I feel as if his expositions are always operating just beyond my grasp.

[Elgarian]

I have sympathy with the view that Wagner can be a bore. I don't think anyone can make three quarters of the first act of Siegfried other than a bum-numbing experience for me.

Well, I must admit that I'm approaching the next phase of my journey (Siegfried) with a good deal of trepidation. I've always found it to contain by far the largest proportion of snoozeworthy material in it, and you may find that my next post contradicts all the quietly contemplative 'could be my fault' assertions I've been making. Could be egg on the face time coming up!

[Cato]

Some memories of interest (I hope!    ) concerning Solti vs. Karajan.  And George Szell .

I recall the Solti Ring being considered practically legendary as soon as it came out, not just because it was the only stereo game in town for a while, (so to speak: I never heard of the Joseph Keilberth stereo Ring until skimming through this topic).

So when DGG announced a Karajan Ring cycle, I recall a good number of people expecting Karajan to go bigger, louder, etc.

The shock at his Rheingold, when it was released, contained disappointment in some reviews (the vast Cato archives no longer have the magazines, due to Mrs. Cato  0:)  bringing me to my senses that not everything can be kept forever) that here was a "chamber-music" approach to Wagner  which, grudgingly, they could accept as valid.

I recall it as if the two biggest bullies in town were supposed to be in a cage match, and one shows up as a just converted Buddhist monk to announce a cancellation.   

In the early 1970's, George Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra had a phenomenal recording on CBS of Ring orchestral excerpts.  The result was a groundswell of support for them to record an entire Ring cycle.

It never happened: I suppose CBS deduced that the market could only support so many versions.

Joseph Keilberth conducted a slam-dunk performance on DGG of Hindemith's Cardillac with Fischer-Dieskau in the title role.  If you can find it, buy it!

Sarge: that German "club-store" you mentioned (like Sam's Club)!  I was a member too, when I lived in Tübingen.  What a coincidence!   

[DavidRoss]

Well, I must admit that I'm approaching the next phase of my journey (Siegfried) with a good deal of trepidation. I've always found it to contain by far the largest proportion of snoozeworthy material in it, and you may find that my next post contradicts all the quietly contemplative 'could be my fault' assertions I've been making. Could be egg on the face time coming up!

A magic sword, a mighty hunter, a venomous dwarf pursued by a bear, a god in disguise wagering life on a riddle, a nefarious plot to murder an adopted son, a battle to the death with a dragon guarding a magic ring, the rescue of a mysterious maiden surrounded by a ring of fire...only an extraordinary talent could turn such gripping material into a snoozefest.   

[Elgarian]

A magic sword, a mighty hunter, a venomous dwarf pursued by a bear, a god in disguise wagering life on a riddle, a nefarious plot to murder an adopted son, a battle to the death with a dragon guarding a magic ring, the rescue of a mysterious maiden surrounded by a ring of fire...only an extraordinary talent could turn such gripping material into a snoozefest.   

Yes, yes, exactly. We know we've succeeded in being perfect listeners when we can dispense with all that unnecessary stuff, penetrate to the really meaningful core, and fully experience the extremes of eventless tedium that only true genius can provide.

Ordinary people don't realise how much we suffer for our pleasure, do they?

[knight66]

OMmmmmmmmm

Mike

[Sergeant Rock]

As one of the last Perfect Wagnerites still active in this forum, I suppose it's my duty to intervene here and condemn the blasphemy. But frankly, I'm having too much fun reading it...and learning much, too, of certain members' opinions of the sacred texts. Continue, gentlemen and heretics. I may be back later with a corrective.

Sarge

[karlhenning]

I think I need to write an opera with a bear pursued by a venomous dwarf.

For balance.

[Cato]

I think I need to write an opera with a bear pursued by a venomous dwarf.

For balance.

Hmm: how about a venomous bear pursued by a dwarf?   0:)

Make it Smurfette      and then you would have a feminist subtext wafting around to balance the odor of the bear.

[Brahmsian]

Siegfried happens to be my favorite of the 4 Ring Operas (followed closely by Die Walkure).

If fails for me as a sleep inducer.

[karlhenning]

Siegfried happens to be my favorite of the 4 Ring Operas (followed closely by Die Walkure).

If fails for me as a sleep inducer.

This reminds me, I meant to post this a day or two ago . . . for the closing credits of (I think) "Cutback at CONTROL" (season 2 of Get Smart) Bernie Kopell's character is mis-spelled Seigfried.

[DavidRoss]

Siegfried happens to be my favorite of the 4 Ring Operas (followed closely by Die Walkure).

If fails for me as a sleep inducer.

My favorite, too.  Alas, even when well rested and fortified with strong coffee, all four tend to put me to sleep--as well as everything else by the venomous dwarf little Dickie.

That's not to say that I think they're bad--far from it.  Only that they're hardly the flawless masterpieces true devotees believe them to be and would probably be much better if only little Dickie had been more craftsman and less "Artiste."  By way of context, for those so offended by my blasphemy that they fail to get my drift, please note that two of the most effective non-chemical sleep aids I know--the DVDs of Patton and Lawrence of Arabia--are also among the films I most admire.