Who is greater: Bach or Brahms?

[Scarpia]

There is no contest. Brahms greatest contrapunctal work, that is the finale of the 4th symphony, pale in comparison of some fugues of the well tempered klavier. Not to mention other majestic fugues of the great Kantor.

Where did you get the notion that the 4th symphony finale is Brahms' "greatest contrapuntal work?"   

[prémont]

There is no contest. Brahms greatest contrapunctal work, that is the finale of the 4th symphony, pale in comparison of some fugues of the well tempered klavier. Not to mention other majestic fugues of the great Kantor.

I am surprised not to say shocked   

[Chaszz]

In organ music, violin/cello partitas and sonatas, harpsichord music, orchestral suites, concerti grossi, cantatas and oratorios: Bach > Brahms

In symphonies, piano concertos, serenades, chamber music with clarinet/horn, string quartets-quintets-sextets, piano trios-quartets-quintets, violin/cello & piano sonatas: Brahms > Bach.

I cannot think of any other meaningful answer. 

Brahms also wrote immeasurably better works for clarinet than Bach did.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Brahms also wrote immeasurably better works for clarinet than Bach did.

Not to mention short character pieces for piano such as rhapsodies, intermezzi, and capriccii (whatever the difference between any of those might mean), and Lieder for voice and piano.

[MishaK]

In symphonies, piano concertos, serenades, chamber music with clarinet/horn, string quartets-quintets-sextets, piano trios-quartets-quintets, violin/cello & piano sonatas: Brahms > Bach.

That's a really pointless comment, since most of these forms did not exist in Bach's time or weren't yet as developed. It's kind of like faulting Roger Federer for not being half as good a swimmer as Mike Phelps, when they never were planning on competing in the same discipline.

[Marc]

That's a really pointless comment, since most of these forms did not exist in Bach's time or weren't yet as developed. It's kind of like faulting Roger Federer for not being half as good a swimmer as Mike Phelps, when they never were planning on competing in the same discipline.

My guess is: mr. Florestan already knew that and was being a bit ironic. Hence his final sentence (with added smiley ).

[Marc]

Oh.
Forgot.
Topic duty: you may wake me every hour of the night for some great Johannes Brahms!
You may NOT wake me every hour of the night for some great Sebastian Bach, because I already listen to him each day!!

[Lethevich]

There is a far more important question here: who is the greatest opera composer, Bach or Brahms?

[The new erato]

There is a far more important question here: who is the greatest opera composer, Bach or Brahms?

As the SMP probably is the greatest opera ever written, JSB wins that one hands down. As for who is the greatest composer of clarinet sonatas, that is another cup of tea entirely!

[karlhenning]

Neither a Passion nor a Requiem is an opera, though . . . .

[Florestan]

That's a really pointless comment, since most of these forms did not exist in Bach's time or weren't yet as developed.

Well, exactly, this is the idea I wanted to stress. 

What is indeed pointless is comparing Bach with Brahms and asking which of them is greater --- and this is my whole point. 

[karlhenning]

What is indeed pointless is comparing Bach with Brahms and asking which of them is greater --- and this is my whole point. 

QFT.

FWIW, the vote that I cast was simply a reflection of which of the composers — Brahms — I listen to more often.

[Florestan]

My guess is: mr. Florestan already knew that and was being a bit ironic. Hence his final sentence (with added smiley ).

Mr. Marc, you're absolutely right!  0:)

[The Diner]

What is indeed pointless is comparing Bach with Brahms and asking which of them is greater --- and this is my whole point. 

It is not pointless as it is a discussion starter between friends.

[Florestan]

QFT.
FWIW, the vote that I cast was simply a reflection of which of the composers — Brahms — I listen to more often.

Of course. Each and every GMG poll, past present and future, boils down to this only criterion --- everything else is just post factum rationalization. 

[Florestan]

It is not pointless as it is a discussion starter between friends.

Which invariably ends in pointless rationalizations, arguments and counter-arguments. 

I have friends who couldn't care less about either Brahms or Bach yet if they called me at 2:00 AM asking me to lend them money I would, without any second thought --- that's friendship to me. 

[The Diner]

Which invariably ends in pointless rationalizations, arguments and counter-arguments. 

I have friends who couldn't care less about either Brahms or Bach yet if they called me at 2:00 AM asking me to lend them money I would, without any second thought --- that's friendship to me. 

I will PM you my street address.  0:)

[Florestan]

I will PM you my street address.  0:)

Please do, you are a fellow Beethovenian / Chopinian and I might need your money these days. 

[The Diner]

Please do, you are a fellow Beethovenian / Chopinian and I might need your money these days. 

That certainly backfired. 

[karlhenning]

That certainly backfired. 

Gosh, I thought that's what you meant!